[Misc] Mandela Effect / False memories

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Margaret Thatcher is remembered for Doing Something about the unions. Brave trade union reform. And selling off council houses.

Not mentioned in the first manifesto is anything to do with tackling unemployment:

http://www.conservativemanifesto.com/1979/1979-conservative-manifesto.shtml

And yet, her election poster from the time is all and only about unemployment. 'Labour Isn't Working'. Remember? What does it mean? It is clear (see below). She was elected in 1979 on a simple platform that implied that the Labour party was making people unemployed. Below is the poster that galvanised the voters. Below that the unemployment statistics, with 1979 highlighed with a little yellow blob. What happened next?





What happened, astonishingly, after the election was that unemployment was allowed to rise - to an 'acceptable level' - while funds were directed towards selling off council houses, creating a generation on nodding-dog working class tories that (along with two quite unsuitable labour leaders) kept them in power for 3 terms, transforming society in the process, restoring a situation where property became king again, and unless you have an account at the bank of mum and dad there is increasingly less chance of getting on the property ladder (post-war working class mischief managed).

I'm not sure which constitutes Mandela syndrome here, the forgetting of the visceral message and grand theme of Thatchers election poster, or the forgetting of the 'paradoxical' massive increase in unemployment that marked her time in office.

 

[RossyG]

C3P0 had one silver leg. I would have sworn he was completely gold!

https://screencrush.com/c3po-silver-leg/

Yes, that one got me too. I blame the action figure, which was all gold. (Should’ve been called Terry).

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

Margaret Thatcher is remembered for Doing Something about the unions. Brave trade union reform. And selling off council houses.

Not mentioned in the first manifesto is anything to do with tackling unemployment:

http://www.conservativemanifesto.com/1979/1979-conservative-manifesto.shtml

And yet, her election poster from the time is all and only about unemployment. 'Labour Isn't Working'. Remember? What does it mean? It is clear (see below). She was elected in 1979 on a simple platform that implied that the Labour party was making people unemployed. Below is the poster that galvanised the voters. Below that the unemployment statistics, with 1979 highlighed with a little yellow blob. What happened next?

[images removed from quote]

What happened, astonishingly, after the election was that unemployment was allowed to rise - to an 'acceptable level' - while funds were directed towards selling off council houses, creating a generation on nodding-dog working class tories that (along with two quite unsuitable labour leaders) kept them in power for 3 terms, transforming society in the process, restoring a situation where property became king again, and unless you have an account at the bank of mum and dad there is increasingly less chance of getting on the property ladder (post-war working class mischief managed).

I'm not sure which constitutes Mandela syndrome here, the forgetting of the visceral message and grand theme of Thatchers election poster, or the forgetting of the 'paradoxical' massive increase in unemployment that marked her time in office.

There's also a tendency on both sides of politics to remember Thatcher as a completely uncompromising, hard right, privatising anti-european monomaniac, since that conveniently provides an idol for the right of the conservatives and a hate figure for the left.

If you consider that Thatcher's government did not privatise the Post Office or the Railways, and played a major part in setting up the European common market, it puts in perspective just how far the centre ground of British politics has shifted over the last 30/40 years in economic terms.

 

[Gwylan]

If you consider that Thatcher's government did not privatise the Post Office or the Railways, and played a major part in setting up the European common market, it puts in perspective just how far the centre ground of British politics has shifted over the last 30/40 years in economic terms.

What's weirder about that is the European single market (a major part is an understatement, she was the driver for the whole concept) was seen as a beacon for the economic right - a European trading area to facilitate commerce and make businesses more money. It was opposed by Labour.

It's not that the centre ground in economic terms has shifted, it's almost done a complete about-turn: Conservatives want to put obstacles in the way of business. I'd say that Labour want to remove them but I'm not quite sure what Labour want

 

[beorhthelm]

I'm not sure which constitutes Mandela syndrome here, the forgetting of the visceral message and grand theme of Thatchers election poster, or the forgetting of the 'paradoxical' massive increase in unemployment that marked her time in office.

neither, think you misunderstood the Mandela effect, its not about basic unfulfilled promises of electioneering and politics. example would be if people remember a specific event, quote, that didnt happen. say if the "labour isnt working" poster had not been published but thousands saying they saw it.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

There's also a tendency on both sides of politics to remember Thatcher as a completely uncompromising, hard right, privatising anti-european monomaniac, since that conveniently provides an idol for the right of the conservatives and a hate figure for the left.

If you consider that Thatcher's government did not privatise the Post Office or the Railways, and played a major part in setting up the European common market, it puts in perspective just how far the centre ground of British politics has shifted over the last 30/40 years in economic terms.

Yes, things change.

Yes, Thather was initially 'post war concensus', and pro-European and signed a big treaty in the early 80s. At the time she sneered at the left of labour, who feared that the common market would erode labour laws that they had fought for over decades (a false fear, but that's another story).



I have never seen the EU as a left/right thing, but it became a right wing thing once Thatcher realised the consequence of our disengagement - no say. Ever since we joined the common market we arrogant English had chosen to not engage, famously not bothering to attend commission and committee meetings, so we'd been left out of all the decision making. Thus, far too late, Thatcher started swinging her handbag, ludicrously demanding all of Europe bend to her will, fostering the rise of the Euroshits like Cash, Redwood and Bone, and allowing opportunist carpetbaggers like Farrage to emerge like Nosferatu in a cloud of hyperbole.

As for Thatcher not privatising the post office or railways, the former was because she was fearful of offending the queen, whose head is on the stamps (I shit you not). Not sure about the railways, although arguably this was an impossible privatisation. Major privatised the railways as part of his doomed re-election attempt, famously summarised in a Private Eye cartoon of Ken Clarke 'pooting' as: 'they even cocked up the bribe'. Labour wanted to renationalise but Prescott soon found he had to accept that the lavish terms given to the franchises meant a 7 year wait and eye watering compo. So labour had to jog on. Seven years later it was all too late. Not a happy privatisation, with unreliable overcrowded trains, price hikes and incomprehensible ticketing (try booking a long distance journey navigating between 2 or 3 operaters with different rules about discounts; oh Dr Beeching indeed.) But I digress, primarily for the benefit of younger readers

Things change. But lying and misrepresenation don't, and false memories abound.

 

[RossyG]

Neil Armstrong said "One small step for man, one giant leap for mankind" upon stepping onto the moon surface.

But later revealed that was NOT what he meant to say ....

Not a Mandela Effect, but he was meant to say 'One small step for a man..." but fluffed his lines. Without the indefinite article, man means the same as mankind and so renders the sentence meaningless.

I bet the bloke that wrote it for him was fuming.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

neither, think you misunderstood the Mandela effect, its not about basic unfulfilled promises of electioneering and politics. example would be if people remember a specific event, quote, that didnt happen. say if the "labour isnt working" poster had not been published but thousands saying they saw it.

I understand what you are saying. If I may torture my point a little more, for old times' sake; everyone remembers that Thatcher got in because of the winter of discontent, and not because she promised to lower unemployment. But she did.

"The Mandela effect is an unusual phenomenon where a large group of people remember something differently than how it occurred."

 

[The Mole]

However he did have a book out in the early 80s called 'Not Many People Know That' which was packed full of 'interesting' facts. To tie in nicely with the subject of this thread , on further inspection,a lot of the 'facts' were found to be untrue. As a further twist some of the facts that were deemed to be untrue were subsequently found to actually be correct.

Actually he did say it in Educating Rita... obviously added to the script for the film

 

[ConfusedGloryHunter]

I'm pretty sure I saw a promise to give the NHS an extra £350 million a week, but I can't have because it didn't happen. Is that a Mandela effect?

 

[RossyG]

I'm pretty sure I saw a promise to give the NHS an extra £350 million a week, but I can't have because it didn't happen. Is that a Mandela effect?

They've been given more than that on top of their usual £2-3 billion a week this year.

But you're right, it's not the Mandela effect.

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

Yes, things change.

Yes, Thather was initially 'post war concensus', and pro-European and signed a big treaty in the early 80s. At the time she sneered at the left of labour, who feared that the common market would erode labour laws that they had fought for over decades (a false fear, but that's another story).

View attachment 134389

I have never seen the EU as a left/right thing, but it became a right wing thing once Thatcher realised the consequence of our disengagement - no say. Ever since we joined the common market we arrogant English had chosen to not engage, famously not bothering to attend commission and committee meetings, so we'd been left out of all the decision making. Thus, far too late, Thatcher started swinging her handbag, ludicrously demanding all of Europe bend to her will, fostering the rise of the Euroshits like Cash, Redwood and Bone, and allowing opportunist carpetbaggers like Farrage to emerge like Nosferatu in a cloud of hyperbole.

As for Thatcher not privatising the post office or railways, the former was because she was fearful of offending the queen, whose head is on the stamps (I shit you not). Not sure about the railways, although arguably this was an impossible privatisation. Major privatised the railways as part of his doomed re-election attempt, famously summarised in a Private Eye cartoon of Ken Clarke 'pooting' as: 'they even cocked up the bribe'. Labour wanted to renationalise but Prescott soon found he had to accept that the lavish terms given to the franchises meant a 7 year wait and eye watering compo. So labour had to jog on. Seven years later it was all too late. Not a happy privatisation, with unreliable overcrowded trains, price hikes and incomprehensible ticketing (try booking a long distance journey navigating between 2 or 3 operaters with different rules about discounts; oh Dr Beeching indeed.) But I digress, primarily for the benefit of younger readers

Things change. But lying and misrepresenation don't, and false memories abound.

I'm not keen to get into a debate on Thatcher's government and legacy, since it's only tangential to my point. Briefly, as far as I know Thatcher herself never advocated privatising the railways themselves, although various extraneous bits of British Rail's business like the hotels and ferries were separated off and privatised. The commitment to privatise British Rail was contained in Major's 1992 election manifesto.

My point is that the simplification and resultant distortion of Thatcher's record in government allows the actions of later governments in Britain (and in America where at least some Republicans idolise her) to be viewed as a natural continuation of her policies, despite the fact that they go much further. You'll see those 80s governments referred to as "extremely right wing" or similar even though modern policies are significantly further to the right than the 80s were in many areas, which legitimises the actions of current governments. Similarly in your original point, by forgetting or brushing over the Conservative's 1979 election campaign focus on unemployment, the increase in unemployment during the 80s becomes seen in hindsight to be justified by the election victory rather than a predictable and blatantly misrepresented consequence of their economic programme.

If you've not tried it before, look at split ticketing. Doesn't work everywhere but on some journeys you can save a fortune: https://splitticketing.co.uk/

 

[Sompting_Seagull]

https://www.vice.com/en/article/3a8mzy/walkers-crisps-switch-colour-packet

Could have sworn Salt and Vinegar were in blue packs once

 

[RossyG]

https://www.vice.com/en/article/3a8mzy/walkers-crisps-switch-colour-packet

Could have sworn Salt and Vinegar were in blue packs once

That article only works by using the "magic" word Walkers. When I was a kid, most shops sold Golden Wonder crisps and their cheese and onion crisps were in green packets.



And salt and vinegar were blue.



In fact, I think this is still the case, but for some reason they're quite hard to find now. Walkers crisps took over with few really noticing.

 

[Wozza]

That article only works by using the "magic" word Walkers. When I was a kid, most shops sold Golden Wonder crisps and their cheese and onion crisps were in green packets.

And salt and vinegar were blue.

In fact, I think this is still the case, but for some reason they're quite hard to find now. Walkers crisps took over with few really noticing.

Yep, you've nailed it.

Golden Wonder were the premium brand when I was a kit.

Cheese and onion is still green in my head - because of the onion, not the cheese really!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I'm not keen to get into a debate on Thatcher's government and legacy, since it's only tangential to my point. Briefly, as far as I know Thatcher herself never advocated privatising the railways themselves, although various extraneous bits of British Rail's business like the hotels and ferries were separated off and privatised. The commitment to privatise British Rail was contained in Major's 1992 election manifesto.

My point is that the simplification and resultant distortion of Thatcher's record in government allows the actions of later governments in Britain (and in America where at least some Republicans idolise her) to be viewed as a natural continuation of her policies, despite the fact that they go much further. You'll see those 80s governments referred to as "extremely right wing" or similar even though modern policies are significantly further to the right than the 80s were in many areas, which legitimises the actions of current governments. Similarly in your original point, by forgetting or brushing over the Conservative's 1979 election campaign focus on unemployment, the increase in unemployment during the 80s becomes seen in hindsight to be justified by the election victory rather than a predictable and blatantly misrepresented consequence of their economic programme.

If you've not tried it before, look at split ticketing. Doesn't work everywhere but on some journeys you can save a fortune: https://splitticketing.co.uk/

Thanks for that

 

[beorhthelm]

https://www.vice.com/en/article/3a8mzy/walkers-crisps-switch-colour-packet

Could have sworn Salt and Vinegar were in blue packs once

simple one, Walkers has always been wrong colours. people make up something to rationalise their deviation from the standard.

 

[jcdenton08]

I still equate salt and vinegar with being blue. Squares, Chipsticks... Walkers was just being edgy. Trying to be the bad boys of the fried potato world.

 

[Dorset Seagull]

I believe Sherlock Holmes never uttered the sentence "Elementary my dear Watson"

Ah but when he painted his front door yellow he did say “Lemon entry my dear Watson”

 

[schmunk]

This is what crisps looked like when I was a boy, armed with 10p for the leisure centre vending machine...