Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[Kinky Gerbil]

Cases will surge, I'd be amazed if he gets that wrong. Offices back, unvax'd kids back, all restrictions off and heating will soon be on

I would do the following:

a) Face mask mandatory for shops and public transport

b) Mass testing in schools twice a week, anyone that refuses a test will be sent home unless they have a special case

c) Offer vaccinations to all teens ASAP, you can still go to school unvax'd but you must be tested

d) Defer mass office return and still work from home if you can. Review in 2 months

e) NHS pass required for all hospitality and leisure by October 1

Do these and we have a fighting chance to getting through the winter without restrictions. Cases today 38k worse in Europe, will have worse deaths too unless we act

Cases are dropping with personal responsibility, we have been fully open without restrictions for almost 2 months.

Scotland have all of those things and cases are going up

The fascination of vaccinating kids without any long term data is bemusing - you seem happy to disrupt another year of education

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Yet scientists (correctly IMO) pushing for a move away from focusing on all cases and them being announced daily and just focusing on how many of those cases are people who get sick. How many of the 38,000 announced today (Cases by specimen date been pretty flattish for a couple of weeks nearly. Much more accurate way to look at trends) are actually or will end up getting sick? That is where the focus needs to shift to.

Time to stop announcing daily cases.

 

[Weststander]

Cases are dropping with personal responsibility, we have been fully open without restrictions for almost 2 months.

Scotland have all of those things and cases are going up

The fascination of vaccinating kids without any long term data is bemusing - you seem happy to disrupt another year of education

I think case numbers in England and Wales will accelerate away in the coming weeks, mirroring Scotland where their schools reopened in effect 3 weeks before ours. It’s only natural. With a largely vaccinate/already had the virus public, in itself, not a major concern. Hospital numbers and deaths the key metrics, in Scotland at present, under control:



Regarding vaccinating 12 to 15 year olds, no politician or scientist is compelling this. I 100% trust the scientists. Our 16 year old had the vaccine last March due to mild asthma, no qualms from us, instead thankful.

Loudmouth anti-vax parents appearing on phone-ins ranting with “over my dead body”. Well there’s a chance that may happen. Their kids will not be vaccinated against the kids will.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I think case numbers in England and Wales will accelerate away in the coming weeks, mirroring Scotland where their schools reopened in effect 3 weeks before ours. It’s only natural. With a largely vaccinate/already had the virus public, in itself, not a major concern. Hospital numbers and deaths the key metrics, in Scotland at present, under control:

View attachment 140099

Regarding vaccinating 12 to 15 year olds, no politician or scientist is compelling this. I 100% trust the scientists. Our 16 year old had the vaccine last March due to mild asthma, no qualms from us, instead thankful.

Loudmouth anti-vax parents appearing on phone-ins ranting with “over my dead body”. Well there’s a chance that may happen. Their kids will not be vaccinated against the kids will.

Scotland’s cases were heading up before the schools opened - was there a mass surge when we opened them in March? I honestly can’t recall - I remember ISAGE etc predicting doom.

I don’t think you should confuse anti vaxers with people that don’t want kids to have the jab, think there is a big difference.

The idea above of potentially banning kids from school for not having jabs is idiotic.

 

[Weststander]

Scotland’s cases were heading up before the schools opened - was there a mass surge when we opened them in March? I honestly can’t recall - I remember ISAGE etc predicting doom.

I don’t think you should confuse anti vaxers with people that don’t want kids to have the jab, think there is a big difference.

The idea above of potentially banning kids from school for not having jabs is idiotic.

We agree on one thing, if case numbers markedly increase, but deaths/hospitalisations do not …. to me that’s nothing to throw the country off course.

I quite deliberately mentioned anti-vax parents, because to a man or woman they were the callers, openly boasting about that too to Jeremy Vine or whoever. Apparently the vaccines make people infertile or will do, they haven’t been tested properly or they’re an covert experiment on people of Afro-Caribbean heritage.

When a guest doctor such as Sarah Jarvis or Chris Smith tried to speak with actual facts, the tactic was to shout over them speaking.

Very strange debating skills.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Cases will surge, I'd be amazed if he gets that wrong. Offices back, unvax'd kids back, all restrictions off and heating will soon be on

I would do the following:

a) Face mask mandatory for shops and public transport

b) Mass testing in schools twice a week, anyone that refuses a test will be sent home unless they have a special case

c) Offer vaccinations to all teens ASAP, you can still go to school unvax'd but you must be tested

d) Defer mass office return and still work from home if you can. Review in 2 months

e) NHS pass required for all hospitality and leisure by October 1

Do these and we have a fighting chance to getting through the winter without restrictions. Cases today 38k worse in Europe, will have worse deaths too unless we act

It's certain that if we do mass testing in schools, we will find more positive cases. It doesn't mean there will be more positive cases, just that we shall find them. It would be foolish beyond belief to bring in restrictions just because the testing system had got more thorough.

Before anyone takes any further action against children's education, they need to say why. Why, why, why. As far as I can see, the only reason they want to ruin the education of children for a third year, is because they can. They want to be seen to do something, they don't have any action that will do material good without disproportionate harm, and they think children are a soft target who don't really matter.

If I was in charge I would say that children's education is paramount and will go on as normal, full stop. The rest of us can work round it. Only if large numbers of relatively young, vaccinated people are dying, will I change my mind.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

We agree on one thing, if case numbers markedly increase, but deaths/hospitalisations do not …. to me that’s nothing to throw the country off course.

I quite deliberately mentioned anti-vax parents, because to a man or woman they were the callers, openly boasting about that too to Jeremy Vine or whoever. Apparently the vaccines make people infertile or will do, they haven’t been tested properly or they’re an covert experiment on people of Afro-Caribbean heritage.

When a guest doctor such as Sarah Jarvis or Chris Smith tried to speak with actual facts, the tactic was to shout over them speaking.

Very strange debating skills.

Sadly we both know if cases rise the normal lockdown voices will be shouting everywhere. - we have been demanding restrictions with casing falling.

They are just currently in hiding talking about climate change.

The anti vax people you mentioned above are just odd, don’t know why people give them airtime

 

[e77]

If we aren't going to do anything about it, why are we bothering testing in schools?

 

[nicko31]

It's certain that if we do mass testing in schools, we will find more positive cases. It doesn't mean there will be more positive cases, just that we shall find them. It would be foolish beyond belief to bring in restrictions just because the testing system had got more thorough.

Before anyone takes any further action against children's education, they need to say why. Why, why, why. As far as I can see, the only reason they want to ruin the education of children for a third year, is because they can. They want to be seen to do something, they don't have any action that will do material good without disproportionate harm, and they think children are a soft target who don't really matter.

If I was in charge I would say that children's education is paramount and will go on as normal, full stop. The rest of us can work round it. Only if large numbers of relatively young, vaccinated people are dying, will I change my mind.

I'm not advocating further disruption to our kids education, last school year we were one of worst of Europe in terms of days lost. They paid a heavy price for poor governance and were given little priority

If we test, pick up positive cases and send individuals home it will reduce the spread. Still very little mitigations on schools for ventilation and facemasks mandate in common areas scrapped, and as for vaccination we are largely the outlier of the developed world is not offering it to teens

The government are basically engaging in a mass herd immunity experiment on our kids, at least just come clean and tell everyone that is exactly what they are doing.

My kids have spent a lot of time with their grandparents over the summer. As some of them are in the vulnerable group I can see this becoming increasingly difficult as the days shorten

 

[beorhthelm]

The government are basically engaging in a mass herd immunity experiment on our kids, at least just come clean and tell everyone that is exactly what they are doing.

arent the JVCI opposed to issuing green light to mass vaccination for under 18, advising only targeted groups? expect if that advice changes, the vaccination of children will change.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I'm not advocating further disruption to our kids education, last school year we were one of worst of Europe in terms of days lost. They paid a heavy price for poor governance and were given little priority

If we test, pick up positive cases and send individuals home it will reduce the spread. Still very little mitigations on schools for ventilation and facemasks mandate in common areas scrapped, and as for vaccination we are largely the outlier of the developed world is not offering it to teens

The government are basically engaging in a mass herd immunity experiment on our kids, at least just come clean and tell everyone that is exactly what they are doing.

My kids have spent a lot of time with their grandparents over the summer. As some of them are in the vulnerable group I can see this becoming increasingly difficult as the days shorten

The Government are following the science on vaccinations.

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

The Government are following the science on vaccinations.

So are you saying France, Italy, Spain, Sweden, Germany, the United States amongst others aren't?

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

So are you saying France, Italy, Spain, Sweden, Germany, the United States amongst others aren't?

They universally criticised the dosage interval for the vaccinations. Perhaps they are also 'wrong' on this issue?

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

They universally criticised the dosage interval for the vaccinations. Perhaps they are also 'wrong' on this issue?

Perhaps, or perhaps this is another example of dithering by the government... Only time will tell.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Perhaps, or perhaps this is another example of dithering by the government... Only time will tell.

Pretty sure it was the Doctors involved advising the government. But then...

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

Pretty sure it was the Doctors involved advising the government. But then...

So doctors, not scientists, is that right?

So do we have different science/doctors to much of the rest of the world, who have already approved and started vaccinating younger age groups? Or have they all got it wrong?

I still believe it to be dithering on the government’s part, as surely they would be the ones asking the scientists / doctors for their advice. Policy will dictate what questions are asked - a similar scenario is currently being played out with the booster jab will they, won’t they situation!

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

So doctors, not scientists, is that right?

So do we have different science/doctors to much of the rest of the world, who have already approved and started vaccinating younger age groups? Or have they all got it wrong?

I still believe it to be dithering on the government’s part, as surely they would be the ones asking the scientists / doctors for their advice. Policy will dictate what questions are asked - a similar scenario is currently being played out with the booster jab will they, won’t they situation!

The kind of doctors we are referring to are scientists.

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

The kind of doctors we are referring to are scientists.

So are our scientists following different science, or is it a policy choice?

 

[beorhthelm]

So are our scientists following different science, or is it a policy choice?

its policy choice which scientists to listen to, and when to override their advice, same with any country. JCVI have advised against vaccinating children, because they dont believe the benefit is worth it because the risks are so low. wasnt long ago everyone thought it terrible idea, now we've not doing it some think its vitally important. not sure whether other countries scientist do approve or have politicians that want to commit. we'd be better off sending the vaccine to developing countries.

 

[nicko31]

So are you saying France, Italy, Spain, Sweden, Germany, the United States amongst others aren't?

If it good enough for them its good enough for us, for the sake of our kids lets get on with it. We should have kicked this off 6 weeks ago

Let the parents decide, most will go with it