Macbook

[jcdenton08]

I disagree. You can't buy a Mac with all the specs you have listed because they're not as customisable as PC's are so generally you buy them as Apple have spec'd them. Also you've listed Windows Vista in your spec list and frankly nobody who wants a Mac would want Vista so it's pointless trying to argue that point.

However the processor, RAM, graphics card and storage don't seem to be particularly super mega and I am fairly confident that if you benchmarked your machine against a top of the range Mac you'd find that the Mac probably won't fare too shabbily at all.

Comparing the specs in terms of hardware numbers is pointless considering the two machines will use the hardware differently.

So you're, (honestly?) saying without joking, that I could go out and buy any brand new 3D game, and run a benchmark test (FPS/Core Temp/etc) of the game on my laptop compared to the best available Macbook, and they will come out close?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

What are going to able to do on this MAC, that you cannot already do in Windows?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Does anyone genuinely know a single person who bought a Mac and is disappointed?

I am pretty cynical but I will defend my Powerbook to the death if I have to.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I will READILY admit that a large number of people buy Macs for the cool factor.

But I actually USE mine, and get so much more out of it than I would a PC for what I do. I have a PowerBook, an iPod, and an iPhone, and I am ENTIRELY happy with all of them. I know the alternatives, have used PCs for years (and MiniDiscs) and I'd rather stick with Apple.

I don't take these things out in public so cannot be accused of buying them for flash value. Even if they are beautiful.

At the end of the day, they ARE easier to use, and actually make the mundane tasks a bit more fun. And no viruses or pop ups etc, without having to spend on a virus scan.

totally agree.

 

[Bluejuice]

So you're, (honestly?) saying without joking, that I could go out and buy any brand new 3D game, and run a benchmark test (FPS/Core Temp/etc) of the game on my laptop compared to the best available Macbook, and they will come out close?

In fairness I don't know enough about the top of the range Macbook but I was speaking about Macs generally and I stand by my suggestion that you could find a Mac that performed just as well as your laptop, quite easily.

A quick Google uncovers the following:

Mac vs PC - Benchmark and Speed Tests - PC versus Mac - Apple, Windows Reviews - Popular Mechanics

Straightforward benchmarking tests between similarly spec'd Mac and PC machines.

Wanna guess who won before you go take a look?

 

[Bluejuice]

Anyway Denton, checking the specs of the best Macbook available it would seem that it is more powerful than your PC laptop anyway. Although I'll grant you it's a lot more expensive.

The top-spec Macbook Pro comes with a 2.8GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor with 6MB cache, 4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM, NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT with 512MB of GDDR3 memory and 2 x 320GB Serial-ATA hard drives.

Are you going to tell me that machine isn't more capable than yours?

And that's just the hardware alone, we've not even factored in the fact that OSX is a vastly superior OS.

And I'm not even a Mac-head, I've experience of both, and in fact I have two Windows machines at home so it's not a snooty apple love-in thing. I just think you'll find that although more expensive, Macs are certainly no less capable

 

[Arthur]

So you're, (honestly?) saying without joking, that I could go out and buy any brand new 3D game, and run a benchmark test (FPS/Core Temp/etc) of the game on my laptop compared to the best available Macbook, and they will come out close?

Yes!

Your wonderfully amazing £500 laptop:

Intel C2D 2.55Ghz (4mb cache)
4GB DDR III gaming ram
Nvidia Geforce 8800GTS 512mb
17" LCD Glossy screen 1440x900
windows vista premium 64 bit
twin 360gb hard drives
full size numeric keyboard
VGA, 3 USB, Memory card reader, eSATA, 10/1000 Nic, 56K modem, Firewire, HDMI out
Headphone, and Mic ports, Express card slot
1.3mega pixel webcam with Mic
DVD Burner with label flash technology

MacBook Pro:


Size and weight

Height:
1.0 inch (2.59 cm)
Width:
15.4 inches (39.2 cm)
Depth:
10.4 inches (26.5 cm)
Weight:
6.6 pounds (2.99 kg)1

17-inch MacBook Pro with dimensions.
Connections and expansion

* One FireWire 400 port at up to 400 Mbps
* One FireWire 800 port at up to 800 Mbps
* Three 480-Mbps USB 2.0 ports
* ExpressCard/34 slot
* Kensington security slot

Communications
802.11n

Built-in AirPort Extreme Wi-Fi wireless networking2 (based on IEEE 802.11n draft specification); IEEE 802.11a/b/g compatible
802.11n

Built-in Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR (Enhanced Data Rate)

Built-in 10/100/1000BASE-T Gigabit Ethernet (RJ-45 connector)
Audio

* Built-in stereo speakers
* Built-in omnidirectional microphone (located under left speaker grille)
* Combined optical digital input/analog line in (minijack)
* Combined optical digital output/analog line out (minijack)

Input
MacBook Pro showing keyboard.

* Built-in full-size keyboard with 78 (U.S.) or 79 (ISO) keys, including 12 function keys and 4 arrow keys (inverted “T” arrangement)
* Backlit keyboard with ambient light sensor for automatic adjustment of keyboard illumination and screen brightness
* Solid-state trackpad with Multi-Touch gesture support for precise cursor control; supports two-finger scrolling, pinch, rotate, three-finger swipe, four-finger swipe, tap, double-tap, and drag capabilities

Display
17-inch MacBook Pro showing display.

17-inch (diagonal) LED-backlit glossy widescreen display with support for millions of colors; optional antiglare widescreen display

Supported resolutions: 1920 by 1200 (native), 1680 by 1050, 1280 by 800, 1152 by 720, 1024 by 640, and 800 by 500 pixels at 16:10 aspect ratio; 1280 by 1024 pixels at 5:4 aspect ratio; 1280 by 1024 pixels at 5:4 aspect ratio stretched; 1600 by 1200, 1024 by 768, 800 by 600, and 640 by 480 pixels at 4:3 aspect ratio; 1600 by 1200, 1024 by 768, 800 by 600, and 640 by 480 pixels at 4:3 aspect ratio stretched; 720 by 480 pixels at 3:2 aspect ratio; 720 by 480 pixels at 3:2 aspect ratio stretched
Graphics and video support
NVIDIA processor.

NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT graphics processor with dual-link DVI support and 512MB of GDDR3 memory

Dual display and video mirroring: Simultaneously supports full native resolution on the built-in display and up to 2560 by 1600 pixels on an external display, both at millions of colors

DVI output port

VGA output using included DVI to VGA Adapter

iSight camera. Built-in iSight camera
Environmental status

* Mercury-free
* Arsenic-free glass
* Majority of circuit board laminates are free of brominated flame retardants.
* ENERGY STAR logo.Majority of internal cables are PVC-free.
* Meets ENERGY STAR requirements.
* EPEAT Gold ratingReceived a Gold rating from EPEAT.

Processor and memory
Intel processor.

* 2.5GHz or 2.6GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor with 6MB on-chip shared L2 cache running 1:1 with processor speed
* 800MHz frontside bus
* 4GB (two 2GB SO-DIMMs) of PC2-5300 (667MHz) DDR2 memory

Storage
Hard drive.

* 320GB 5400-rpm Serial ATA hard drive; optional 320GB 7200-rpm hard drive; optional 128GB solid-state drive3
*

8x slot-loading SuperDrive (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)

Maximum write: 8x DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD+RW; 6x DVD-RW; 4x DVD-R DL (double layer), DVD+R DL (double layer); 24x CD-R; 16x CD-RW

Maximum read: 8x DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD+RW, DVD-ROM; 6x DVD-ROM (double layer DVD-9), DVD-R DL (double layer), DVD+R DL (double layer), DVD-RW; 24x CD

Battery and power4
5 hours of wireless productivity.

68-watt-hour lithium-polymer battery

85W MagSafe Power Adapter with cable management system

MagSafe power port
Electrical and operating requirements

* Line voltage: 100V to 240V AC
* Frequency: 50Hz to 60Hz
* DC input: 18.5 Vdc, 4.6A maximum
* Operating temperature: 50° to 95° F (10° to 35° C)
* Storage temperature: -13° to 113° F (-24° to 45° C)
* Relative humidity: 0% to 90% noncondensing
* Maximum operating altitude: 10,000 feet
* Maximum storage altitude: 15,000 feet
* Maximum shipping altitude: 35,000 feet

Better no?

 

[csider]

I want to get one but can't really afford it, my only option would be the Apple 3 year payment plan at 16%. Does anyone know any other sites that do better offers?

friend selling a g4 mac. not sure what exactly that is or if fits your req'

wants about 500.00 for it. 18 mnts old and 1500.00 new.

 

[Mellotron]

I can understand why a gamer would not go for a Mac, but go for an Xbox360 if you want gaming, not a PC. Much cheaper and brilliant range of games. Also shows I am NOT snobby against Microsoft.

AGAIN your white cables post is false, I never use the headphones that come with an iPod/iPhone. I DO NOT buy these things to flash them around.

And finally, I notice you fail to talk about the most important part; the OS. Vista is horrible. Both Tiger and Leopard work a dream.

 

[Mellotron]

Yes!

Your wonderfully amazing £500 laptop:



MacBook Pro:


Size and weight

Height:
1.0 inch (2.59 cm)
Width:
15.4 inches (39.2 cm)
Depth:
10.4 inches (26.5 cm)
Weight:
6.6 pounds (2.99 kg)1

17-inch MacBook Pro with dimensions.
Connections and expansion

* One FireWire 400 port at up to 400 Mbps
* One FireWire 800 port at up to 800 Mbps
* Three 480-Mbps USB 2.0 ports
* ExpressCard/34 slot
* Kensington security slot

Communications
802.11n

Built-in AirPort Extreme Wi-Fi wireless networking2 (based on IEEE 802.11n draft specification); IEEE 802.11a/b/g compatible
802.11n

Built-in Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR (Enhanced Data Rate)

Built-in 10/100/1000BASE-T Gigabit Ethernet (RJ-45 connector)
Audio

* Built-in stereo speakers
* Built-in omnidirectional microphone (located under left speaker grille)
* Combined optical digital input/analog line in (minijack)
* Combined optical digital output/analog line out (minijack)

Input
MacBook Pro showing keyboard.

* Built-in full-size keyboard with 78 (U.S.) or 79 (ISO) keys, including 12 function keys and 4 arrow keys (inverted “T” arrangement)
* Backlit keyboard with ambient light sensor for automatic adjustment of keyboard illumination and screen brightness
* Solid-state trackpad with Multi-Touch gesture support for precise cursor control; supports two-finger scrolling, pinch, rotate, three-finger swipe, four-finger swipe, tap, double-tap, and drag capabilities

Display
17-inch MacBook Pro showing display.

17-inch (diagonal) LED-backlit glossy widescreen display with support for millions of colors; optional antiglare widescreen display

Supported resolutions: 1920 by 1200 (native), 1680 by 1050, 1280 by 800, 1152 by 720, 1024 by 640, and 800 by 500 pixels at 16:10 aspect ratio; 1280 by 1024 pixels at 5:4 aspect ratio; 1280 by 1024 pixels at 5:4 aspect ratio stretched; 1600 by 1200, 1024 by 768, 800 by 600, and 640 by 480 pixels at 4:3 aspect ratio; 1600 by 1200, 1024 by 768, 800 by 600, and 640 by 480 pixels at 4:3 aspect ratio stretched; 720 by 480 pixels at 3:2 aspect ratio; 720 by 480 pixels at 3:2 aspect ratio stretched
Graphics and video support
NVIDIA processor.

NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT graphics processor with dual-link DVI support and 512MB of GDDR3 memory

Dual display and video mirroring: Simultaneously supports full native resolution on the built-in display and up to 2560 by 1600 pixels on an external display, both at millions of colors

DVI output port

VGA output using included DVI to VGA Adapter

iSight camera. Built-in iSight camera
Environmental status

* Mercury-free
* Arsenic-free glass
* Majority of circuit board laminates are free of brominated flame retardants.
* ENERGY STAR logo.Majority of internal cables are PVC-free.
* Meets ENERGY STAR requirements.
* EPEAT Gold ratingReceived a Gold rating from EPEAT.

Processor and memory
Intel processor.

* 2.5GHz or 2.6GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor with 6MB on-chip shared L2 cache running 1:1 with processor speed
* 800MHz frontside bus
* 4GB (two 2GB SO-DIMMs) of PC2-5300 (667MHz) DDR2 memory

Storage
Hard drive.

* 320GB 5400-rpm Serial ATA hard drive; optional 320GB 7200-rpm hard drive; optional 128GB solid-state drive3
*

8x slot-loading SuperDrive (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)

Maximum write: 8x DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD+RW; 6x DVD-RW; 4x DVD-R DL (double layer), DVD+R DL (double layer); 24x CD-R; 16x CD-RW

Maximum read: 8x DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD+RW, DVD-ROM; 6x DVD-ROM (double layer DVD-9), DVD-R DL (double layer), DVD+R DL (double layer), DVD-RW; 24x CD

Battery and power4
5 hours of wireless productivity.

68-watt-hour lithium-polymer battery

85W MagSafe Power Adapter with cable management system

MagSafe power port
Electrical and operating requirements

* Line voltage: 100V to 240V AC
* Frequency: 50Hz to 60Hz
* DC input: 18.5 Vdc, 4.6A maximum
* Operating temperature: 50° to 95° F (10° to 35° C)
* Storage temperature: -13° to 113° F (-24° to 45° C)
* Relative humidity: 0% to 90% noncondensing
* Maximum operating altitude: 10,000 feet
* Maximum storage altitude: 15,000 feet
* Maximum shipping altitude: 35,000 feet

Better no?

Cor, if you listened to Denton you'd think the specs list would just say:

*Looks pretty
*Is cool
*Nice and white

I WILL accept there are idiots who buy Macs without knowing how to use them or WHY they are good.

Just none here. I use mine for Video Editing, Music Production and Composition, and also I DO prefer it for the everyday stuff.

Occasionally I might want to play a PC game (not often), so I boot up BootCamp. Simple.

Shame because I am a huge Deus Ex (1) fan like yourself.

 

[jcdenton08]

Yes!

Your wonderfully amazing £500 laptop:



MacBook Pro:


Size and weight

Height:
1.0 inch (2.59 cm)
Width:
15.4 inches (39.2 cm)
Depth:
10.4 inches (26.5 cm)
Weight:
6.6 pounds (2.99 kg)1

17-inch MacBook Pro with dimensions.
Connections and expansion

* One FireWire 400 port at up to 400 Mbps
* One FireWire 800 port at up to 800 Mbps
* Three 480-Mbps USB 2.0 ports
* ExpressCard/34 slot
* Kensington security slot

Communications
802.11n

Built-in AirPort Extreme Wi-Fi wireless networking2 (based on IEEE 802.11n draft specification); IEEE 802.11a/b/g compatible
802.11n

Built-in Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR (Enhanced Data Rate)

Built-in 10/100/1000BASE-T Gigabit Ethernet (RJ-45 connector)
Audio

* Built-in stereo speakers
* Built-in omnidirectional microphone (located under left speaker grille)
* Combined optical digital input/analog line in (minijack)
* Combined optical digital output/analog line out (minijack)

Input
MacBook Pro showing keyboard.

* Built-in full-size keyboard with 78 (U.S.) or 79 (ISO) keys, including 12 function keys and 4 arrow keys (inverted “T” arrangement)
* Backlit keyboard with ambient light sensor for automatic adjustment of keyboard illumination and screen brightness
* Solid-state trackpad with Multi-Touch gesture support for precise cursor control; supports two-finger scrolling, pinch, rotate, three-finger swipe, four-finger swipe, tap, double-tap, and drag capabilities

Display
17-inch MacBook Pro showing display.

17-inch (diagonal) LED-backlit glossy widescreen display with support for millions of colors; optional antiglare widescreen display

Supported resolutions: 1920 by 1200 (native), 1680 by 1050, 1280 by 800, 1152 by 720, 1024 by 640, and 800 by 500 pixels at 16:10 aspect ratio; 1280 by 1024 pixels at 5:4 aspect ratio; 1280 by 1024 pixels at 5:4 aspect ratio stretched; 1600 by 1200, 1024 by 768, 800 by 600, and 640 by 480 pixels at 4:3 aspect ratio; 1600 by 1200, 1024 by 768, 800 by 600, and 640 by 480 pixels at 4:3 aspect ratio stretched; 720 by 480 pixels at 3:2 aspect ratio; 720 by 480 pixels at 3:2 aspect ratio stretched
Graphics and video support
NVIDIA processor.

NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT graphics processor with dual-link DVI support and 512MB of GDDR3 memory

Dual display and video mirroring: Simultaneously supports full native resolution on the built-in display and up to 2560 by 1600 pixels on an external display, both at millions of colors

DVI output port

VGA output using included DVI to VGA Adapter

iSight camera. Built-in iSight camera
Environmental status

* Mercury-free
* Arsenic-free glass
* Majority of circuit board laminates are free of brominated flame retardants.
* ENERGY STAR logo.Majority of internal cables are PVC-free.
* Meets ENERGY STAR requirements.
* EPEAT Gold ratingReceived a Gold rating from EPEAT.

Processor and memory
Intel processor.

* 2.5GHz or 2.6GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor with 6MB on-chip shared L2 cache running 1:1 with processor speed
* 800MHz frontside bus
* 4GB (two 2GB SO-DIMMs) of PC2-5300 (667MHz) DDR2 memory

Storage
Hard drive.

* 320GB 5400-rpm Serial ATA hard drive; optional 320GB 7200-rpm hard drive; optional 128GB solid-state drive3
*

8x slot-loading SuperDrive (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)

Maximum write: 8x DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD+RW; 6x DVD-RW; 4x DVD-R DL (double layer), DVD+R DL (double layer); 24x CD-R; 16x CD-RW

Maximum read: 8x DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD+RW, DVD-ROM; 6x DVD-ROM (double layer DVD-9), DVD-R DL (double layer), DVD+R DL (double layer), DVD-RW; 24x CD

Battery and power4
5 hours of wireless productivity.

68-watt-hour lithium-polymer battery

85W MagSafe Power Adapter with cable management system

MagSafe power port
Electrical and operating requirements

* Line voltage: 100V to 240V AC
* Frequency: 50Hz to 60Hz
* DC input: 18.5 Vdc, 4.6A maximum
* Operating temperature: 50° to 95° F (10° to 35° C)
* Storage temperature: -13° to 113° F (-24° to 45° C)
* Relative humidity: 0% to 90% noncondensing
* Maximum operating altitude: 10,000 feet
* Maximum storage altitude: 15,000 feet
* Maximum shipping altitude: 35,000 feet

Better no?

The graphics card is worse.

The best cpu option is .05mhz faster, with a higher cache.

The ram is worse, I am using special DDR III gaming ram which has a much higher performance than standard DDR II ram.

Furthermore, I can take my 2.55ghz processor out of my laptop, and replace it with a quad core if I wish. I chose a laptop that is fully upgradeable. I.E. futureproof.

The hard drives are worse.

The price will be, I am guessing, around triple.

If you actually look at the spec, it is a worse system for more money. Care to disagree?

 

[Wozza]

Does anyone genuinely know a single person who bought a Mac and is disappointed?

I've never met a single person who has bought a Mac that hasn't felt the need to justify their expensive purchase by arguing about its merits on an Internet forum, like some unpaid junior marketing assistant or something.

 

[Arthur]

The graphics card is worse.

The best cpu option is .05mhz faster, with a higher cache.

The ram is worse, I am using special DDR III gaming ram which has a much higher performance than standard DDR II ram.

Furthermore, I can take my 2.55ghz processor out of my laptop, and replace it with a quad core if I wish. I chose a laptop that is fully upgradeable. I.E. futureproof.

The hard drives are worse.

The price will be, I am guessing, around triple.

If you actually look at the spec, it is a worse system for more money. Care to disagree?

Yep.

 

[Bluejuice]

Denton, your laptop runs Windows Vista. You lose. Sorry

 

[jcdenton08]

Erm, yeah... I have 4gb ram... 32bit operating systems can only read or "understand" up to 3gb of ram... I need a 32bit o/s to get the most of the machine and processing speeds..

Vista, generally is shite, but in my case it vastly improves the machines performance