Lowest point in English goalkeeping

[Ninja Elephant]

Atleast we have a top quality number 1 in Joe Hart. My concern is up front. We have Rooney. Full stop, that's it. Andy Carroll, Jermain Defoe, Peter Crouch....

We're just not f***ing brilliant.

 

[Martlet]

It's all correct... but none of the top two current keepers at Brighton and the number one keeper for years before that were English, and that seems to be the case for most sides in the Championship these days, let alone the Prem.

Glass houses and all that?

 

[Mental Lental]

I don't agree with the argument that English players are inherently less technically skilled than other nations. I think it's a tired and rather simplistic viewpoint. As has been said English teams over the past decade or so have regularly reached the semi's and finals of the champions league. Yes There's only been a few Englishmen per team but that is besides the point. How many German or Italian or Spanish or French or Dutch or any other national players are in those line ups? In my opinion the only type of player that we don't seem to have is the creative forward- a messi/zidane/modric/zola/bergkamp type player.

The problem for English football as I see it is essentially twofold. Firstly, it's the coaching. Talented players are taught to play in a certain 'English' way a percentage style of football. They do it day in day out at their clubs as that's what gets results in the English leagues. It's not that they are incapable of playing any other way-the magnificent work Poyet has done with the Albion should be all the evidence you need to see that. It's that English football has a set mentality from grass roots up to the pro game, including on the terraces and sidelines.

The second problem as I see it is related to the first. At international level we play a mish mash style. We try to play a slow, passing game but it very rarely works. Why? Because we're playing against players who play that same style week in week out for their clubs. If two teams consisting of broadly equal individual ability play each other, team A in a style it is accustomed to and team B in a style that they're not then clearly team B is going to struggle. International football doesn't afford the manager time to drill into the players a new way of playing.

I don't think we should try to emulate Barcelona or Spain, by the time we master that football would have moved on again. The team I think we should look to is the German team of the last world cup. I think they have many attributes that we can copy fairly easily. They were comfortable on the ball as all teams should be but when they attacked they were direct, pacy and incisive. It wouldn't take a massive cultural sea change either to go from where we are to how the Germans play. It'd still need a greater emphasis on keeping the ball and being comfortable in possession wherever you are on the pitch but it'd utilise a number of the basic traits that we have in English football. The biggest thing we need to do is to start creating our own creative attackers. And trusting them. We've not really had anyone suitable for that role since Letissier retired.

Agree with this to some extent, but I think that one of the factors holding our national team back is one that is well documented on here and one that I witnessed in the flesh when I made it to the Amex for the Gillingham game (and that is.......)

Neanderthal clueless morons shouting "GET IT FORWARD" the very second we play about 3 passes between our own players in our own half.

Thankfully Gus is showing us the way and I truly believe that I have seen the future of English football. And he's Uruguayan.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Is it a purely British thing that we used to produce the best goalkeepers in the world or do people from other countries think the same about us?

You've forgotten Zamora - El Divino.

Jesus.

You haven't, obviously.

 

[vegster]

Sorry. The worst English goalie ever has to be Ian Walker.

Nice hair though.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Agree with this to some extent, but I think that one of the factors holding our national team back is one that is well documented on here and one that I witnessed in the flesh when I made it to the Amex for the Gillingham game (and that is.......)

Neanderthal clueless morons shouting "GET IT FORWARD" the very second we play about 3 passes between our own players in our own half.

Thankfully Gus is showing us the way and I truly believe that I have seen the future of English football. And he's Uruguayan.

No doubt that fans' expectations of how football should be played is a part of the problem. But I think it's a part of the first problem I highlighted. It's endemic throughout football, from the grassroots up. In fact, it's probably a cultural thing that affects the whole nation rather than just the footballing part of it. Take rugby for instance. Think of how the classic English style is described. And then compare it to how the aussies/kiwi's style is described. They play 'rugby' whilst we rely on the forwards. We seem to prefer power and force over the artistry of the backs.

Which is why it's asking a lot(too much, in my opinion) to expect such a massive shift in philosophy. Even with more and more coaches coming round to the idea of possession football there will still be a huge number of people urging the players to get it forward. It's too culturally ingrained to be eradicated that simply and quickly. Over generations it can change, but in the meantime a change to the german style can be achieved fairly quickly and is a decent halfway house. It's certainly much better than the lumpen, slow creative-less mess we seem to play now.

 

[Danny-Boy]

Its a massive worry. If we lost Joe Hart to who would we turn?
When i was growing up we had Shilton, Woods, Seaman, Flowers, Martyn. All class goalkeepers who would walk into most Premier League teams, Well maybe not the Palace bastard Martyn.
Spain have a wealth of goalkeeping talent to the point Barcelona's Victor Valdes has no more than a handfull of caps & Germany has six/seven international quality g/ks.
Is it another problem we can blame on the failings at grassroots level or the Premier League?

Martyn had a long fruitful career with Everton, bit different from Mark Beeney's with Leeds then.

 

[Danny-Boy]

I'd rather have Ken Loach.

I'd rather have Fenella Fielding...

 

[Danny-Boy]

Put simply, he is not. He is no better than Joe Lewis (no world beater) or even Alex Smithies. He is an average young goalkeeper who was sold by Blackburn because he won't ever be as good as Paul Robinson. The fact is, the best young England goalkeeper is playing in the Championship for a very ordinary Derby team. Maybe I am being harsh or misjudging his ability, but I don't think so.

When we had the top keepers, they usually played in struggling clubs (eg Stoke, Leicester) but at a high level. I don't like the idea of an England keeper whose reputation is gained in the second tier of the league, however good we think we are there.

 

[gjh1971]

and some chap called Jack Butland debuts for the U21s tonight, whoever he may be

 

[Marcus]

1. Scott Carson vs Croatia
2. Peter Bonetti vs West Germany
3. Peter Shilton with that free kick vs West Germany in 1990. Although it did cannon off Paul Parker's head, Shilton should have done better
4. Paul Robinson vs Croatia
5. Robert Green vs USA
6. Peter Shilton vs Poland 1973, still admits to this day he should have not let that shot slip under his body for the Poland goal.

 

[gjh1971]

and some chap called Jack Butland debuts for the U21s tonight, whoever he may be

Apparently he is 3rd choice for Birmingham

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

7. Ray Clemence - through the legs from Dalglish
8. David Seaman - Ronaldinho's free-kick
9. Peter Shilton - falling asleep against Italy

 

[Falkor]

Green is a liability but he his a good back up, but England have not treated him nicely at all, many West Ham fans dont even think his injured and just given England the 2 fingers i expect him to retire very soon

 

[Falkor]

Bert troutman was hard as nails broke his neck playing for city and carried on playing

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

Bert troutman was hard as nails broke his neck playing for city and carried on playing

He was a German though.