[Politics] Liz Truss **RESIGNS 20/10/2022**

[WATFORD zero]

Funnily enough I don't recall her saying quite that!

Obviously it was worded differently (but we both know what she was thinking )

 

[WATFORD zero]

However, the recent Labour Party Conference backed PR, and I think it is likely Starmer will bring it in to Labour's next GE manifesto. This will make it much easier for Labour, the Lib Dems and Greens to openly talk about electoral pacts and consensus politics. Indeed, there was a time when Scottish independence would give Labour virtually NIL chance of an overall majority under FPTP but with the Tories likely to be toxic for the next decade Labour won't necessarily need Scottish seats to be the largest party in Westminster.

I think the issue of Europe is key here because Scotland overwhelmingly voted to Remain, the SNP are committed to rejoining the EU and all the while the UK economy is tanking and floundering under the post-Brexit red tape and import/export duties that will give Sturgeon a fighting chance, whoever is in charge in Westminster. However, if Starmer was brave enough to negotiate a customs union with the EU and help kick-start the economy that by itself could defeat the SNP's hopes of independence.

This is why I hope we get a Lib/Lab coalition. Libs say we will only be in coalition if we join Customs Union, Labour say 'go on then', biggest (and desperately needed) boost to the UK economy immediately, gets rid of NIP problem, gets rid of ridiculous situation where Britain implementing import controls is 'an act of self harm' ©Jacob Rees-Mogg

If we actually stop actively destroying the economy and businesses on a daily basis, then off the back of that, we can start to look at what else can be done to dig out the economy

 

[Pavilionaire]

This is why I hope we get a Lib/Lab coalition. Libs say we will only be in coalition if we join Customs Union, Labour say 'go on then', biggest (and desperately needed) boost to the UK economy immediately, gets rid of NIP problem, gets rid of ridiculous situation where Britain implementing import controls is 'an act of self harm' ©Jacob Rees-Mogg

Off the back of that, then we can start to look at what else can be done to dig out the economy

Labour were trounced in 2019 because the Red Wall voted to 'Get Brexit Done' . Now polls show 61% of the Red Wall intend to vote Labour, yet what we don't know is how much that figure will go up or down by if Starmer moves back towards a customs union position. We don't know the extent to which in the minds of the voters Brexit was bound up with Boris. You could sell it as Boris's biggest lie in a whole lifetime of lying.

Starmer has not made it clear how he would deliver the sort of 2.5% growth Truss and Kwarteng are aiming for, but it is telling the Tories haven't mentioned anything about Brexit helping them to do that. It's all about tax cuts and freeports, not a word about new free trade deals. Yet Starmer clearly will not pursue growth through tax cuts and freeports, while I don't believe we can get the growth we need without rowing back on the Tory Brexit so we unblock the ports, get rid of the excise duties and sort Northern Ireland. It will be fascinating to see what he does. I suspect he will try and honour the Brexit we have, and then see growth continue to stagnate, rather than properly address the elephant in the room.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Labour were trounced in 2019 because the Red Wall voted to 'Get Brexit Done' . Now polls show 61% of the Red Wall intend to vote Labour, yet what we don't know is how much that figure will go up or down by if Starmer moves back towards a customs union position. We don't know the extent to which in the minds of the voters Brexit was bound up with Boris. You could sell it as Boris's biggest lie in a whole lifetime of lying.

Starmer has not made it clear how he would deliver the sort of 2.5% growth Truss and Kwarteng are aiming for, but it is telling the Tories haven't mentioned anything about Brexit helping them to do that. It's all about tax cuts and freeports, not a word about new free trade deals. Yet Starmer clearly will not pursue growth through tax cuts and freeports, while I don't believe we can get the growth we need without rowing back on the Tory Brexit so we unblock the ports, get rid of the excise duties and sort Northern Ireland. It will be fascinating to see what he does. I suspect he will try and honour the Brexit we have, and then see growth continue to stagnate, rather than properly address the elephant in the room.

I agree completely which is why a Lib/Lab coalition would give him a way out of an impossible situation (although nowhere near as impossible as a solution to NI )

 

[The Clamp]

That interview! Jeez! We have a sub-normal person in charge.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I agree completely which is why a Lib/Lab coalition would give him a way out of an impossible situation (although nowhere near as impossible as a solution to NI )

Truss is doing so badly that the chances of a Labour outright majority are increasing daily. I can see that him leading a coalition would enable him to change Brexit and take the credit if things go well, or blame his junior partners if it doesn't.

We may be out of Europe but we haven't done anything to adjust to a Post-Brexit world, and so it will be either down to Starmer alone or Starmer in coalition to either get the trade deals or move back to a customs union. Trade deals will take years while the Tories will slam him as the man who sold out Brexit if he goes for a customs union. He faces a tough time dealing with the shit sandwich about to be handed to him.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Truss is doing so badly that the chances of a Labour outright majority are increasing daily. I can see that him leading a coalition would enable him to change Brexit and take the credit if things go well, or blame his junior partners if it doesn't.

We may be out of Europe but we haven't done anything to adjust to a Post-Brexit world, and so it will be either down to Starmer alone or Starmer in coalition to either get the trade deals or move back to a customs union. Trade deals will take years while the Tories will slam him as the man who sold out Brexit if he goes for a customs union. He faces a tough time dealing with the shit sandwich about to be handed to him.

He has to re-join the customs union to get any growth, resolve the NIP, Import controls etc etc

The Lib/Lab would give him the solution but, as you rightly say, a Labour majority won't. But he's a bright bloke and it will be interesting to see how he handles it. When you look at the current Top 4, Cabinet etc, I'll just quote the post of the conversation I heard a couple of weeks ago

A conversation that I overheard a few days ago.

Person 1. "You've worked with these new people, Truss, Kwarteng, Braverman and Cleverly, are they all just complete narcissists ?"
Person 2. "Cleverly isn't so bad"
Person 1. "What, he sticks to his political principles ?"
Person 2. "Well I wouldn't say principled"
Person 1. "There must be someone in Cabinet that you know who actually sticks to what they believe in"
Person 2. "Well, you may be surprised but Steve Baker is a nice bloke who tends to stick to his beliefs"
Person 1. "So he actually sticks to his political beliefs"
Person 2. "I think so, yes .............................. unfortunately batshit crazy, but probably principled"

Still, on the bright side, we only voted for another two years of this

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

Anyone else here noted that this is awful news for Sturgeon on several counts?

A decent overall majority for Labour then the SNP would have zero say in a Westminster government, not being able to force a referendum as part of a deal. 1.2m folk would not have any de facto control over these Isles.

Similarly, they achieved 45% of the Scots who bothered to vote in Dec 2019, based partly on the premise of a Conservative UK government. That would be booted into touch, instead the many failings of her administration will be highlighted by Labour Scotland in the buildup to the Dec 2024 GE.

Yeah but Scottish Labour are an absolute joke.

 

[Weststander]

Truss is doing so badly that the chances of a Labour outright majority are increasing daily. I can see that him leading a coalition would enable him to change Brexit and take the credit if things go well, or blame his junior partners if it doesn't.

We may be out of Europe but we haven't done anything to adjust to a Post-Brexit world, and so it will be either down to Starmer alone or Starmer in coalition to either get the trade deals or move back to a customs union. Trade deals will take years while the Tories will slam him as the man who sold out Brexit if he goes for a customs union. He faces a tough time dealing with the shit sandwich about to be handed to him.

Labour will win an overall majority imho. Other than Macron (as he faced a fascist), democracies have changed their parties in power as the pandemic screwed business sectors, logistics, distribution and latterly fuelled inflation. Add the financial impact on Europe including the UK of Putin setting out to crush the West economically.

The 30% margin is a silly midterm thing, not taking into account shy Tories. Peak Labour in 1997 polled a 12.5% margin, with the SNP only taking 6 seats. My guess is Labour having a 15% margin in Dec 24, taking back some SNP seats too.

If that happens, the LibDems and SNP will have no power whatsoever. I know desperate anti-Tories here promote a Progressive Alliance, but it doesn’t work like that, Labour won’t share their newfound power, why should they?

Regarding our ties to the EU, imho it needs to get closer. I always think that Putin and Trump would’ve ****** themselves silly over Brexit, loathing liberal alliances of democracies, craving division. At a time of Putin/Orban/Erdogan, the rest of greater Europe should be getting closer. Macron spoke great words after the Queen passed, we should be building on Entente Cordiale and a whole host of other friendly alliances.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

[tweet]1577329289606864898[/tweet]

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Labour will win an overall majority imho. Other than Macron (as he faced a fascist), democracies have changed their parties in power as the pandemic screwed business sectors, logistics, distribution and latterly fuelled inflation. Add the financial impact on Europe including the UK of Putin setting out to crush the West economically.

The 30% margin is a silly midterm thing, not taking into account shy Tories. Peak Labour in 1997 polled a 12.5% margin, with the SNP only taking 6 seats. My guess is Labour having a 15% margin in Dec 24, taking back some SNP seats too.

If that happens, the LibDems and SNP will have no power whatsoever. I know desperate anti-Tories here promote a Progressive Alliance, but it doesn’t work like that, Labour won’t share their newfound power, why should they?

Regarding our ties to the EU, imho it needs to get closer. I always think that Putin and Trump would’ve ****** themselves silly over Brexit, loathing liberal alliances of democracies, craving division. At a time of Putin/Orban/Erdogan, the rest of greater Europe should be getting closer. Macron spoke great words after the Queen passed, we should be building on Entente Cordiale and a whole host of other friendly alliances.

110% correct

 

[Weststander]

110% correct

Nice avatar

 

[The Clamp]

6 weeks?
6 months?
2 years?


Step down or ousted? Early election?

 

[CheeseRolls]

Anyone else here noted that this is awful news for Sturgeon on several counts?

A decent overall majority for Labour then the SNP would have zero say in a Westminster government, not being able to force a referendum as part of a deal. 1.2m folk would not have any de facto control over these Isles.

Similarly, they achieved 45% of the Scots who bothered to vote in Dec 2019, based partly on the premise of a Conservative UK government. That would be booted into touch, instead the many failings of her administration will be highlighted by Labour Scotland in the buildup to the Dec 2024 GE.

I would hope that an incoming labour government would adopt the Gordon Brown plan to replace the House of Lords with a more regionally representative second house. It might not be good for the SNP but might be a better way forward for Scotland within the UK.

 

[CheeseRolls]

That interview! Jeez! We have a sub-normal person in charge.

It goes much deeper than that TC! Suella Braverman is a rabid ranting Christmas grinch nutter and many of Liz's personal picks for ministers, amply reflect her tight quality standards. (they have to have supported her).

 

[The Clamp]

They are clearly not taking any advice, on policy or PR.
They probably saw Johnson winging it for so long and thought they’d give it a go too. Except, a lot of the time he wasn’t winging it.
Unfortunately for them, they don’t have anywhere near the portfolio of dirt Johnson had on everyone he met, to grease the wheels. And nowhere near as many people willing to be scapegoated .

As batrachian as Johnson was, he did his prep when it came to protecting himself. Until he didn’t.

 

[Weststander]

I would hope that an incoming labour government would adopt the Gordon Brown plan to replace the House of Lords with a more regionally representative second house. It might not be good for the SNP but might be a better way forward for Scotland within the UK.

The unelected House of Lords needs to go asap. The purported tempering of Labour and Tory legislation, is far outweighed by its composition of chums of outgoing (blue or red) prime ministers.

 

[A1X]

[tweet]1577354669411688453[/tweet]

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

If that happens, the LibDems and SNP will have no power whatsoever. I know desperate anti-Tories here promote a Progressive Alliance, but it doesn’t work like that, Labour won’t share their newfound power, why should they?

Writing as a literally card carrying Labour member, I'd argue that reforming the voting system in a way that drastically reduces the Conservatives' chances of ever having a Parliamentary majority in their own right ever again would do far more for the country than any other piece of legislation a single Labour government might bring forward.

But you're probably right, I'm sure short sightedness will win the day.

 

[The Clamp]

[tweet]1577354669411688453[/tweet]

“Woman” is in there