cannedheat
Banned
But they eat cats in the EU pickled boiled and grilled.
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Lisbon Treaty - How do you want the Irish to vote.
- Thread starter little al
- Start date
But they eat cats in the EU pickled boiled and grilled.
Lord Bracknell
On fire
The UK parliament has already ratified the Lisbon treaty. Do its decisions count for NOTHING in Cameron's mind?
looney
Banned
- Jul 7, 2003
- 15,652
They dont count. No parliament is beholden to a previous government especially laws that were passed against a manifesto pledge.
It has no moral standing, the tories can and probably will rip it up and hold a referendum.
Lord Bracknell
On fire
I'm prepared to listen to an argument that says that New Labour promised a referendum and never held one. This will almost certainly count against them at the next general election.
What ISN'T possible is for Cameron to claim that his referendum - if he ever gets to hold one - will be a referendum against the Lisbon treaty and that it will be possible to vote NO to Lisbon, while still supporting EU membership.
By the time that referendum will be held, Lisbon will be implemented, new ways of running the EU will have been introduced and the ONLY options available will be staying in a post-Lisbon EU or leaving the EU altogether.
I don't believe that leaving the EU is an option that will win majority support - not even among Tory supporters.
Cameron has been well and truly stitched up by the result in Ireland. The fact that he didn't see it coming demonstrates how out of touch with the real world he and his clique are.
The ONLY way out for Cameron now is to abandon his pledge to hold any sort of meaningful referendum. If he promises a referendum on continuing membership of the EU, he will be dumped by the intelligent wing of the Tory Party faster than a heap of shit sliding off a shovel.
looney
Banned
- Jul 7, 2003
- 15,652
Ah but you over look a third option. Using the immoral action as levarage to get an opt out vis the social chapter.
And fourth. That the tories will use it as an excuse to propell the UK out of the EU.
As for the Pro-EU wing of the party, I would not call them intelligent by a longshot, in my experiance make up about 5% of tory members.
It has always been a splinter group rather than a split.
And fourth. That the tories will use it as an excuse to propell the UK out of the EU.
As for the Pro-EU wing of the party, I would not call them intelligent by a longshot, in my experiance make up about 5% of tory members.
It has always been a splinter group rather than a split.
Lord Bracknell
On fire
One of the reasons for voting YES to the Lisbon treaty is that it extends the 'opt-out' rights of member states.
simonsimon
New member
- Dec 31, 2004
- 692
God preserve us from flyweight ex public schoolboys endorsed by the "Sun"
fork me
I have changed this
You mean each democratically elected government appoints a commissioner, in the same way that our democratically elected goverment appoints the prime minister.
What was your point again?
- Jan 18, 2009
- 4,860
The fact is that whilst there was a resistance movement it was relatively small and there were many millions of Frenchmen and women who were prepared to tolerate a French puppet state entirely sympathetic with the Germans. An uncomfortable truth that the French nation has to accept.
The free French under De Gaulle fought with Vichy French troops on a number of occasions, and in instances where they were sucessful (like in Syria) it is a fact that very few Vichy French troops then joined the free French. Many many more preferred captivity or when available the offer of a transfer back to Vichy France. Indeed after the Syrian conflict the thousands of returning Vichy French troops received a heroes welcome from the residents in Marseille.
It is a matter of conjecture whether Britain would have behaved differently (like in the Channel Islands) to the French, but then again we don't have to worry about it too much because we fought on. Therefore we British can legitamately beat the French nation as regularly as we please with the WW2 surrender stick...........you don't have to join in if you don't want to.
As for the Taigs you are right many tens of thousands of Irish happily served in the British Army and as a nation they also were not always neutral by helping allied pilots get to the north.
All good then, well not quite, De Velera incensed the Allies by offering condolences to the German nation when notified of Hitler's death (an act that was unique amongst world leaders given the exposure of the death camps). The Irish Government also knowingly allowed known Nazi war criminals to live in Ireland unmolested at the end of WW2. Not just the Catho Croatian ones but also a high standing and well known member of the SS.
When your head's up your arse it pays to turn your head both ways.
fork me
I have changed this
Anyone else see the contradiction here?
Barrel of Fun
Abort, retry, fail
No?
I think the nasty party should concentrate on the prime issues at home rather than forcing us into a time wasting battle with mainland Europe. As LB said, Cameron has been stitched up and the fact he did not see it coming betrays his lack of political savvy and judgement.
I've said before, we are so far behind the rest of Europe in so many areas we will be better off joining them as opposed to distancing ourselves (and I do not mean befriending those far-right kranks Cameron has invited to his conference).
Lord Bracknell
On fire
... and THAT is precisely the problem with a referendum. It would turn into a beauty contest between political leaders ... which is a RIDICULOUS way to determine the future of the United Kingdom's place in Europe.
We have a representative democracy in the UK. We let parliament decide these matters. And we accept the result. If a later parliament wants to change things, the mechanisms to do so are in place. Politicians who "demand a referendum" are simply copping out of their responsibilities.
True, I have never seen the point of referendums. If they have value why not dispense with parliament, install an administrative body and put everything out to vote?
simonsimon
New member
- Dec 31, 2004
- 692
The docu-drama "When Boris Met Dave" will be shown on More 4 on Wednesday 7 October. It will be a good watch about their shared past at Eton and Oxford where they were both members of the elite society the Bullingdon Club. It will give an insight into their unsuitability for high office.
Barrel of Fun
Abort, retry, fail
Why are they unsuitable for office if they have been educated at Eton and Oxford? I am pretty sure the teaching standard is rather good and they were obviously intelligent enough to attend both..?
simonsimon
New member
- Dec 31, 2004
- 692
You are ignoring the differences between the two main political parties.
The current governing party wants to sustain government spending to fight the worst downturn since World War II.
The Tories want to aggressively cut government spending. George Osborne has said precisely that.
Those of us who remember the last Tory government, when key services like the railways were run into the ground, remember exactly what this was like.
Their policies drawn from their elitist views of society, would bring about more social damage to the so called British way of life.
The current governing party wants to sustain government spending to fight the worst downturn since World War II.
The Tories want to aggressively cut government spending. George Osborne has said precisely that.
Those of us who remember the last Tory government, when key services like the railways were run into the ground, remember exactly what this was like.
Their policies drawn from their elitist views of society, would bring about more social damage to the so called British way of life.