Leeds to get 5 point back

[cjd]

They did, the vote in August was in response to the appeal. After which time it was out of their hands.

Leeds appealed against this decision almost immediately. What did the Football League Clubs do then.....?
I suspect the answer is...................nothing.

 

[clapham_gull]

Leeds appealed against this decision almost immediately. What did the Football League Clubs do then.....?
I suspect the answer is...................nothing.

Not sure what your point is, the league organised a vote amoungst the clubs in response to the appeal.

Leeds chose not to accept that and take it "higher" at which point, it's out of the other clubs control.

It's now the other clubs fault now it it ? Ring Dick

 

[Easy 10]

Well I'm bored of the whole thing now. I wish Leeds Utd would just f*** off and die somewhere quietly.

 

[cjd]

Not sure what your point is, the league organised a vote amoungst the clubs in response to the appeal.

Leeds chose not to accept that and take it "higher" at which point, it's out of the other clubs control.

It's now the other clubs fault now it it ? Ring Dick

It was obvious that as soon as Mastur-Bates talked of litigation, there was every chance that one club was going to to suffer unfairly as a result of this( whether it be promotion or relegation). At this time, they should have formed a panel to set up a fighting fund and legal expertise, with the legal threat of requesting the Football league to expel Leeds, as the decision to give them a Golden share was also a precedent...( as was the 15 point penalty).

 

[clapham_gull]

Well I'm bored of the whole thing now. I wish Leeds Utd would just f*** off and die somewhere quietly.

Cats do that.

I'm bored of it too, please would the league go way over the summer and get the rules regarding administration cleared up.

 

[Easy 10]

Cats do that.

Not when you tie them up in a bag and kick them round the garden. They make a RIGHT old racket.

 

[portlock seagull]

Blimey, nothing like Leeds United to stir people's passions eh? In reply to at least one poster wanting to throw this back in my face if it doesn’t happen. Well, that may well occur of course (imagine that – on NSC? Where everyone gets everything right.....) But I never started this rumour about Leeds getting points back – it’s been discussed a million times before in all types of media. Just from what I’ve heard, my fears (which I’ve harboured from the beginning of the season) that Leeds would get something back is greater than ever. But you’ve got to admit, no smoke without fire and it’s coming from all sorts of sources now so something of this order seems extremely likely. And you only have to look at pass football rulings to see that such a farcical turnaround was odds on to happen e.g. Swindon relegated 2 divisions (1 on appeal); Spurs deducted 16 points (none on appeal though the cup ban stood); West Ham Tevez scandal last year....to name just a few. Obviously the bigger clubs always get favouritism – such is life though.

 

[Seasider78]

As with everything to do with football these days nothing is simple. I mean for f*cks sake the offside rules are now so complicated nobody knows what is going on.

The useless twats at the FA need to sit down with the FL and look at these sort of things and ensure clear guidelines are in place to ensure these clubs adhere to a code of conduct. If the rules were clear from the outset clubs would know the punishments for poor management and the FL could act accordingly.

It is hard to think of a single occasion when a punishment against a club has not been reduced or reversed on appeal and this is not acceptable especially with the knock on effect this has on other clubs.

Yes Leeds are scum and are clearly abusing the loopholes in the system but the real question is why are measures in place to prevent them doing it. This needs to be sorted to prevent crooks like Bates playing the system and carrying on under his phoenix club whist laughing at the tax man.

 

[billy_bremner]

The bitterness continues ! The only reason I'm still here is because I hope sensibility prevails in the end !

Yes , we out foxed the league by getting into admin last season. Yes , we used that to our advantage as the HMRC did not do what they did to CARDIFF ( by postponing the date for the bill payment !! Big Club ? Favouritism ? Yer avin a laugh ) .

And we got the -10 we deserved for that !

Now the issue is this ,

Was the penalty in the league's rules to begin with, did they have authority to do it!

Sub-issue - does 15 points constitute a fair punishment for not having a CVA!

It was the FL's rule about repaying football debts in full that caused HMRC to challenge the AGREED CVA forcing us to leave admin an alternative way.

How can you punish a club for sticking to the rules? and How farcical and biased is the fact that you let RIVAL CLUBS in the football league decide your fate ?

There is a reason why the Football League is pissing down it's pants. There is a reason why it didn't want to go to high court and fight this in public because obviously we have a case in our hands !

This is as simple as I can portray it because you people have not been following the happenings from day 1 and all you can do is sit and cry a river without knowing the facts. Thats heights of insecurity and bitterness.

Hell , I could not give a f*** about the 15 points because we ve still held our own in this league after the -15 and the transfer embargo that was put on us last summer. Now , the people against us can't see all these things and I could not really care less about that.

We will get promoted both ways and I would be the happiest man around to see thousands of sore losers after we get our points back and you clubs fight it out with each other.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

No it is true Leeds will get the 5 points back. Was only in Morrison,s today in Leek. The guy on the check-out gets his hair cut at a shop in Macclesfield,where the barber once went to watch Leeds play. The Barber said Leeds would get there 5 points back,as his mate in Doncaster was a friend of a club steward. It must be true.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Thats another thing , the transfer embargo. New company takes over and in January, Leeds sign more players WTF? Where has the money come from ? If Leeds get any points back there will be a petition from supporters from all the other League clubs demanding the Football League expel them.

 

[El Presidente]

The bitterness continues ! The only reason I'm still here is because I hope sensibility prevails in the end !

Yes , we out foxed the league by getting into admin last season. Yes , we used that to our advantage as the HMRC did not do what they did to CARDIFF ( by postponing the date for the bill payment !! Big Club ? Favouritism ? Yer avin a laugh ) .

And we got the -10 we deserved for that !

Now the issue is this ,

Was the penalty in the league's rules to begin with, did they have authority to do it!

Sub-issue - does 15 points constitute a fair punishment for not having a CVA!

It was the FL's rule about repaying football debts in full that caused HMRC to challenge the AGREED CVA forcing us to leave admin an alternative way.

How can you punish a club for sticking to the rules? and How farcical and biased is the fact that you let RIVAL CLUBS in the football league decide your fate ?

There is a reason why the Football League is pissing down it's pants. There is a reason why it didn't want to go to high court and fight this in public because obviously we have a case in our hands !

This is as simple as I can portray it because you people have not been following the happenings from day 1 and all you can do is sit and cry a river without knowing the facts. Thats heights of insecurity and bitterness.

Hell , I could not give a f*** about the 15 points because we ve still held our own in this league after the -15 and the transfer embargo that was put on us last summer. Now , the people against us can't see all these things and I could not really care less about that.

We will get promoted both ways and I would be the happiest man around to see thousands of sore losers after we get our points back and you clubs fight it out with each other.

A couple of points BB.

Not sure you were 'punished' for the -10 points, given that you were already relegated, punishment normally implies some form of suffering, how did Leeds suffer here?

As for the FL rules on football related debts being paid in full, I think you will find the PFA were instrumental in that, in order to protect their members rights. Leeds have managed to have their cake and eat it, in the sense of evading paying their outstanding creditors, the 'new' Leeds pocketing £1.5mill from the sale of Healey, thereby allowing them to pay higher wages than other clubs in this division as they are debt free.

Are the FL a bunch of fuckwits? Yes. Would we give a shit if we were 15th in this league, No. If the roles of Brighton and Leeds were reversed, and we looked like picking up 5 points that had previously deducted, would you look at it objectively or emotionally?

 

[Seasider78]

The bitterness continues ! The only reason I'm still here is because I hope sensibility prevails in the end !

Yes , we out foxed the league by getting into admin last season. Yes , we used that to our advantage as the HMRC did not do what they did to CARDIFF ( by postponing the date for the bill payment !! Big Club ? Favouritism ? Yer avin a laugh ) .

And we got the -10 we deserved for that !

Now the issue is this ,

Was the penalty in the league's rules to begin with, did they have authority to do it!

Sub-issue - does 15 points constitute a fair punishment for not having a CVA!

It was the FL's rule about repaying football debts in full that caused HMRC to challenge the AGREED CVA forcing us to leave admin an alternative way.

How can you punish a club for sticking to the rules? and How farcical and biased is the fact that you let RIVAL CLUBS in the football league decide your fate ?

There is a reason why the Football League is pissing down it's pants. There is a reason why it didn't want to go to high court and fight this in public because obviously we have a case in our hands !

This is as simple as I can portray it because you people have not been following the happenings from day 1 and all you can do is sit and cry a river without knowing the facts. Thats heights of insecurity and bitterness.

Hell , I could not give a f*** about the 15 points because we ve still held our own in this league after the -15 and the transfer embargo that was put on us last summer. Now , the people against us can't see all these things and I could not really care less about that.

We will get promoted both ways and I would be the happiest man around to see thousands of sore losers after we get our points back and you clubs fight it out with each other.

Your big club mentality is what got you in this shit in the first place and after the piss poor management of your club over the years its a wonder they did not wind up the club a long time ago.

Trust me however happy you may feel IF you get any points back is nothing compared to the joy of fans of all clubs up and down the country if you don't, stay down and continue your slump into the depths of the football league.

 

[billy_bremner]

El Presidente,

When we went into Admin last season , WE WERE NOT RELEGATED mathematically ( 1 game remaining , 3 points behind but poor goal difference ). So it's completely within the rules . We can't go by meanings here . There might be a loophole in the system and someone had to tap it , too bad it was Leeds to do so first ! We didn't break any rule did we ?

Mate , Im all for the Football debts getting priority n all that . But if the Taxman have an issue with that , they should put the PFA in the spot !! NOT THE CLUB that is in admin. The Taxman USED US as a scapegoat and sent across a message that here after , both football debts and non football ones must be treated with equal priority. So in the process of him teaching the F.A a lesson , WE SUFFERED !

As for the roles being reversed , El Presidente , Hear me out well , I WOULD FIRST GET TO KNOW THE FACTS PROPERLY and then look at it EMOTIONALLY ( like how you lads are now ) and when the final verdict is out , I would just shut up and put up with it because I know the FACTS and I know that the verdict is completely justified !

Get what i mean ??

 

[clapham_gull]

El Presidente,

When we went into Admin last season , WE WERE NOT RELEGATED mathematically ( 1 game remaining , 3 points behind but poor goal difference ). So it's completely within the rules . We can't go by meanings here . There might be a loophole in the system and someone had to tap it , too bad it was Leeds to do so first ! We didn't break any rule did we ?

Mate , Im all for the Football debts getting priority n all that . But if the Taxman have an issue with that , they should put the PFA in the spot !! NOT THE CLUB that is in admin. The Taxman USED US as a scapegoat and sent across a message that here after , both football debts and non football ones must be treated with equal priority. So in the process of him teaching the F.A a lesson , WE SUFFERED !

As for the roles being reversed , El Presidente , Hear me out well , I WOULD FIRST GET TO KNOW THE FACTS PROPERLY and then look at it EMOTIONALLY ( like how you lads are now ) and when the final verdict is out , I would just shut up and put up with it because I know the FACTS and I know that the verdict is completely justified !

Get what i mean ??

Now it's time for you to do some research.

The "taxman" didn't use you as a scapegoat, they've been challenging that ruling in a number of other situations.

 

[billy_bremner]

Stop spouting rubbish seasider !

Everybody in the leeds camp admit that we were poorly managed by our predecessors financially and unfortunately , we have paid some diabolical consequences of it . That does not mean we have shot ourselves in the foot.

Right now , we are healing together as a club and it won't be long before we are back in the premiership ! I can be act modest and try to please my rival fans but anybody who know an ounce of English Football and are following us , would know that we ain't going to loiter in the lower leagues for long , ESPECIALLY after getting out of admin debt free !!

 

[dougdeep]

Normally I couldn't care less what happens to Leeds, but the goalposts can't be moved with only a few weeks to go until the end of the season. Whether it's us or any other team that miss out on promotion, the football league will be a laughing stock. (Again)

 

[Row Z Creased Shirt]

Now the issue is this ,

Was the penalty in the league's rules to begin with, did they have authority to do it!

Sub-issue - does 15 points constitute a fair punishment for not having a CVA!

It was the FL's rule about repaying football debts in full that caused HMRC to challenge the AGREED CVA forcing us to leave admin an alternative way.


We will get promoted both ways and I would be the happiest man around to see thousands of sore losers after we get our points back and you clubs fight it out with each other.

I'm sorry. but "it's not fair that the taxman wanted his money back" is much of a get out BB. Leeds should pay ther f***ing bills like the rest of us, and your last point seems to indicate why you think you shouldn't honour your debts.

If you look at the FL statement on the penalty you'll see that you were bloody lucky to get permission to play this season. Don't give it the biggun when your club went BUST last season because you couldn't run yourself properly.

 

[beorhthelm]

Sub-issue - does 15 points constitute a fair punishment for not having a CVA!

so why did the Leeds management accept it in return for the FL share then? because the rules said you cant be a memeber of the FL and play at all without a CVA in place. but then they side stepped the whole issue with the new company farce which tucked up everyone and left the FL no choice but to offer the share to a new club. so the points are not for no CVA in place, they are in exchange for the club not having to qualify to play in the FL through the traditional FA pyramid route.

It was the FL's rule about repaying football debts in full that caused HMRC to challenge the AGREED CVA forcing us to leave admin an alternative way.

funny spin you have there. the revenue didnt accept the CVA because a better offer was available but turned down. They rightly thought that was a little shady so challanged the CVA. I dont think Bates had thougt of that and it left them in a bit of a pickle didnt it?

I had a lot of sympathy for the Leeds fans back in August. i suppose i still do as its not your fault. but Bates and the Leeds managment are taking the f***ing piss and whats started to happen is the fans are siding with them and forgetting they are the ones that created this whole situation in the first place. The best thing the Leeds fans could do is look to extract Bates, not cheer him trying to get back points from the chaos he created.

 

[billy_bremner]

Now it's time for you to do some research.

The "taxman" didn't use you as a scapegoat, they've been challenging that ruling in a number of other situations.

I ve done my research buddy ! I don't read anywhere else where the Taxman blocked a club from going through with it's CVA !

In going into administration the FL docked Leeds 10 points during the 45th league game of the season (as opposed to the roughly halfway through that Luton and Bournemouth have cynically done). That should have been that, but because the Taxman decided that Leeds was a powerful scalp to mess with, they decided to object to the deal forged by the (independent) administrator appointed to sort out the affairs of the club. The best deal on the table was one by the original owner of the club (not the original operating company), so Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs decided they would test the mettle of the Football League by threatening Leeds United (interestingly not their administrator who was in charge of affairs at the time) with court action to recover debts to the taxman, who under current rules is not a football creditor and therefore only entitled to the percentage of what they are owed that is offered by the successful buyer. HMRC decided to have a court hearing deliberately set after the season started.

Without a Company Voluntary Agreement Leeds United would be unable to have the Golden Share that is required to take part in Football League competitions, but a CVA could not be issued until HMRC dropped their claim. Remember that at this point the Administrator (KPMG) were in charge of financial affairs at Leeds United, and that is who was selling the club back to the original owner to the fierce objection of HMRC despite the fact that it was the best deal for the creditors.

Given the impasse offered by both HMRC and the FL, KPMG put the club up for sale again and once again the Ken Bates led bid was the best by a country mile, paying non football creditors 35% of their debt, a 3500% increase on the first bid.

HMRC continued with their court bid, and the Football League decided that in the absence of a CVA (impossible whilst the threat of legal action by HMRC was present) decided to implement the 'special circumstances' option and docked Leeds another 15 points - 25 points overall, or put another way 2.5 times the maximum penalty ever given before. Remember that Leeds at this point had paid over £90m of the debt they had owed two years previously.

Once this had happened HMRC dropped their legal action - did they think they would lose, or had they been undone by the Football League's use of special circumstances rule? Who knows, but the one thing that is certain is that Leeds United were just pawns in a game of brinksmanship between the Football League and HMRC.