labour only 2 points behind in polls

[Goldstone Rapper]

First class post, Bevendean Hillbilly.

 

[looney]

back to 7 point lead today.

 

[glasfryn]

No point in voting Green in Lewes, either. There's EVERY point in voting Green in Brighton Pavilion.

Nor where I am in Wales .................so its Labour......but I do have this awful feeling that they are watered down tories

 

[Bwian]

Deep breath.

What i will say specifically on the subject of the NHS is this:

I was an A&E Staff Nurse between 1992 and 1996 and previously to that had been a student Nurse trained in Brighton Hospitals and out of the Old School of Nursing in Kingsway, Hove and Sussex Uni.

In the years since I left Nursing and went into The Medical Industry I have continued to work closely with NHS Hospitals all over the UK and other Hospitals right around Europe. My current role means I work in the Intensive Care Medicine arena developing patient safety products.

For what its worth I have the following observations to make:

The NHS has improved massively in just about all critical care settings that is A&E, Coronary and Intensive Care. Facilities, equipment, morale and infrastructure have undergone a huge overhaul, the staff are better paid and the money that has been spent has, by and large, meant that your chance of leaving those areas alive has improved beyond measure.

A&E in particular is worth mentioning because, I think I speak the truth here when I say, not one of you lot with the self important opinions on here, has ever worked in a trauma unit so your opinions, really, count for nought.

When I worked in that area, under the last Conservative Government incidentally, it was collapsing under the weight of targets/patient charters/cost cutting initiatives. The equipment was antiquated and often still being used long past its redundancy, in fact we used to routinely use single patient use devices on multiple patients because of budgetary constraints. Morale was just in freefall after years of governmental neglect, pay-freezes and chronic underfunding generally. What was happening across the whole Health Service was bordering on Criminal. Does anyone remember the 24 hour waiting in A&E, people dying in corridors? 18 month waits for cancer patients? IT WAS ALL TRUE...I WAS THERE.

The Conservatives operated a "Value for Money" system that meant that managers who spent less than their budget got large bonusses based on the savings they made. This simply led to a slashing of spending on vital equipment and services and big bonusses for the, often non clinical, managers.

The Tory way was to just spend nothing on essential public services. It was lazy, route one, stuff.

Fast forward to 2010. The changes made have altered things beyond recognition. True there are still issues, there always will be. True there are still complaints from nurses about poor pay...but you know what? Nurses are often young women who leave the profession to have kids or go into other areas of life so they dont have the continuity of experience that is required to have an informed opinion.


What is true is that you very really hear Nurses with 20 odd years of service under their belts comparing the situation as it is today unfavourably with the situation under the last Tory Govt. In fact I have NEVER heard this from that group. To a one they loathe the Tories of that era for what they did to the NHS, although obviously some are prepared to put this in the past and trust Cameron and the Conservatives once again.

Perhaps they have short memories or perhaps they are now senior Nurses and Managers more interested in how much they are going to be taxed by labour. What is true is that they are typically earing almost 50% more in real terms to do those senior roles than they would have under the last Tory administration.


I can recall some of my colleagues in those days voting Tory much to the horror of their colleagues. BUT I also recall that these weirdos usually had a rich Doctor Husband or similar comfortable home situation so Nursing was almost a hobby for them where they got to dress up and move among the poor dispensing mercy. For those of us trying to pay our ridiculous Mortgages or surviving with a family on pittance wages this was never a voting choice.

Because of my considerable experience in European Hospitals, again in Critical Care I have the following observations:

Firstly France. France has an excellent public health system which consistently delivers some of the best outcomes for diseases such as Cancer and Coronary disease in Europe. France also has some of the most overblown socialist Hospitals with ridiculous bureauracies that stifle innovation and haemorrage money. Their Intensive care areas are poor in comparison with the UK.The Reanimátion Nurses lack autonomy and care suffers as a consequence. Medication errors are common because the staff are relatively poorly trained. France also has no national reporting structure for things like this so it often goes unreported. General dissatisfaction levels among French people with their Hospitals are far greater than in Britain, and in my view, rightly so. The French system is basically inferior to the UK in every way that I have seen.

Germany.

The German Healthcare system, once the envy of the world is now in utter crisis. They enjoy the highest ratio of Doctors to patients and Nurses to beds in Europe but this system is not sustainable long term, especially now.

German Hospitals again operater a "Doctor knows best" system which means that Nurses and other ancilliary staff are little more than operatives with very little ability to challenge on behalf of patients. Their High Dependancy areas offer excellent care levels but, interestingly, relatively poor survival rates in comparison with the UK the insurance based system there means that Hospitals compete with each other for trade so are reluctant to report issues related to patient harm caused in their institutions. They are also reluctant to allow clinical studies which highlight such concerns because it would be bad for trade. Again not a system that should be considered "better" than the NHS although you would certainly feel very well looked after with all the extra Nurses.

The "Best" healthcare system I have seen is in Scandinavia. The investment in Healthcare there is massive and the skills of the Nurses are comparable to the UK. They have clean, well resourced and FREE healthcare with no up-front charges. Patient safety is something that the authorities are keen to pay for and the systems they employ are state of the art. Their populations are small and relatively rich, but highly taxed, so can afford the very best.

The Karolinka in Sweden is just an amazing Hospital with highly skilled, well paid staff. Truly this is the way all Healthcare should be modelled.

Overall UK is behind the Nordics but ahead of the French and German systems. The mediterranean countries do not really have integrated healhcare systems in the way we understand them so really do not bear comparison.

Britain is just behind them and quite a way ahead of France and Germany in my opinion, which, in the absence of anyone else on here actually knowing what they are talking about experientially, is the only opinion that should matter.

The day I start pontificating about the Bond Market, derivitives trading or Share price futures is the day that you lot can give an opinion obn the relative merits of Tory or other management of the Health Service.

Shut the f*** up eh? you're just embarrassing yourselves.

Thanks-an excellent post. Be prepared because no doubt you'll be accused of 'not knowing the real facts'.

 

[beorhthelm]

Deep breath.

What i will say specifically on the subject of the NHS is this:

very good post. so we arent the shitest in the world, but nor are best.

i dont think anyone but a loon would defend the previous government record on the NHS. but then how much of the precieved success of the current government is down to easily achievable tagets and massaging of them (people bumped off one waiting list to another to appear they have progressed). Targets and Charters is another tory idea Blairism embraced.

but something i think we should do is not go by how a tory government 15 years ago treated the NHS. I think we should consider the current tory leader has indepth first hand experience of the NHS front line services, and give them a chance to show they will treat this institution now. Labour hasnt done anything to address the middle/upper management that sucks money from real services, will many cry if they made savings here, would it impact actual provision of healthcare?


and back to that poll lead, its jumped back to 7 points? so much for polls.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

very good post. so we arent the shitest in the world, but nor are best.

i dont think anyone but a loon would defend the previous government record on the NHS. but then how much of the precieved success of the current government is down to easily achievable tagets and massaging of them (people bumped off one waiting list to another to appear they have progressed). Targets and Charters is another tory idea Blairism embraced.

but something i think we should do is not go by how a tory government 15 years ago treated the NHS. I think we should consider the current tory leader has indepth first hand experience of the NHS front line services, and give them a chance to show they will treat this institution now. Labour hasnt done anything to address the middle/upper management that sucks money from real services, will many cry if they made savings here, would it impact actual provision of healthcare?


and back to that poll lead, its jumped back to 7 points? so much for polls.

Perhaps you are right. Dave has certainly made the promise "The NHS is safe in my hands" but, worryingly they are also using some familiar language regarding "uneccessary expenditure", in relation to healthcare as their forbears.

I personally think the Tories will win the next election because Gordon Brown is virtually a shoe in for David C. I also am dogged by the fear that the Tories instincts will mean that Hospitals, along with other expensive luxuries for poor people, will be run down as before, but, hey ho. I guess we'll find out in the next few years.

My plea is simple. PLEASE can we stop vilifying Labour for running down the NHS, they have taken it from the brink of collapse to being the envy of Europe once again, hell, even the more rational Americans want to use it as an exemplar for the reform of the hugely unfair mess that is US healthcare.

There used to be literally hundreds of North Staffords under the Conservatives, now its a real rarity. We should be thanking the Labour Party for this.

It took Labour to realise that a Nurse with three years training and responsible for peoples lives is worth slightly more salary than a probationer Policeman. Not because the Government knows that Nurses won't strike so are therefore an easy target for pay freezes, not because they dont break up riots when poor people take to the streets because of ridiculous measures to feather suburban nests but because they are actually fulfilling a vital role for any civilised society, looking after its most vulnerable people.

That, I fear, will guarantee that the Tories wont value them.

People do tend to get the Government deserve all things considered so maybe it's time for the feckless poor to get a damn good shoeing under the Tories.

 

[Helter]

BNP for me. Death penalty for murderess and drug importers and child rapists. Life means life and castration for rapists. Deportation for any immigrant who breaks our laws and should fit into our way of life and not the reverse.

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

BNP for me. Death penalty for murderess and drug importers and child rapists. Life means life and castration for rapists. Deportation for any immigrant who breaks our laws and should fit into our way of life and not the reverse.

How about all these dudes? Are you telling me they deserve harsher sentences?

November 2008 Ian Hindle
Jailed for three years for having sex with a child

November 2008 Andrew Wells
Jailed for two years and three months after admitting engaging in sexual activity with a child and engaging in sexual activity in the presence of a child.

October 2008 Lockart Kneen
Fined £150 and £115 after being found guilty of two counts of racially and religiously aggravated harrassment for affixing anti-Islamic stickers to packages he sent out in the mail.

October 2008 Martin Glasgow
Martin Glasgow is jailed for 12 months for a racist assault against an Asian man in June 2006.

October 2008 Anthony Weeks
Anthony Weeks is given a ten month jail sentence, suspended for two years, and ordered to pay £600 in compensation to his victim and order to do 80 hours community service after admitting racially aggravated assault against an Egyptian customer at his place of work, a local cash and carry.

November 2007 Andrew Kendall
Andrew Kendall was given an 18 month conditional discharge and fined £200 for putting up a racially-offensive and threatening poster which showed three black men, the words read "Illegal immigrant murder scum".

October 2007 Shaun Jones
Shaun Jones is given a six month community order for threatening polling booth staff on 4 May 2007 with a stick after being told he was not registered to vote. He ignored advice from staff who gave him a phone number to call to register and instead continued shouting and swearing at them until he was arrested. He was also made to pay £150 costs.

Dominic Bugler
Bugler, in the May 2007 elections, is arrested and remanded in custody for the possession of an imitation firearm. He is later handed a two-year ASBO earned because he 'caused misery for residents through his violent and drunken behaviour' and which bans him from parts of Pelsall. The Aldridge and Brownhills Housing Trust won an eviction order against him too but he avoided this by moving of his own accord to a new address. Bugler also appeared in court charge with threatening behaviour towards his wife in late August and agreed to be bound over to keep the peace for 12 months for a sum of £200.

June 2007 Robert Bennett
Robert Bennett, a convicted gang rapist, is arrested for his part in a assault on his next door neighbour which began when they ask his son David to leave a BBQ after he began using racist language. David attacked his neighbour after refusing to leave . He returned with his father and the pair subsequently attacked both the male and female neighbour. Robert Bennett who admitted affray was sentenced to 150 hours community service and £250 compensation whilst his son, who also pleaded guilty, was sentenced to 250 hours community service and ordered to pay £500 compensation.

 

[Meade's Ball]

I work for a health regulator (not the NMC) and i know first-hand that the standards set in a number of health professions, particularly Paramedics, are the envy of other countries. I know Spain are looking to mirror our training standards and standards of conduct and competence too. Most of Europe has untrained paramedics who simply have a clean driving record to start racing about cities and elsewhere. Soon, no one using the title of paramedic will have had anything but a full degree in the science of it all. Already, paramedics in the UK are highly-trained enough to save lives and administer life-saving techniques without the say-so of doctors but being aware of their limitations. In Europe, that is not the case. They arrive, pick people off the floor and take them to where they can be fixed. In Germany that's so.
We're top of the league outside of Sweden as Hillbilly says. Something the Labour Party should be proud of putting together.

 

[Helter]

That's what you get for voting Labour, Vote BNP.

How about all these dudes? Are you telling me they deserve harsher sentences?

November 2008 Ian Hindle
Jailed for three years for having sex with a child

November 2008 Andrew Wells
Jailed for two years and three months after admitting engaging in sexual activity with a child and engaging in sexual activity in the presence of a child.

October 2008 Lockart Kneen
Fined £150 and £115 after being found guilty of two counts of racially and religiously aggravated harrassment for affixing anti-Islamic stickers to packages he sent out in the mail.

October 2008 Martin Glasgow
Martin Glasgow is jailed for 12 months for a racist assault against an Asian man in June 2006.

October 2008 Anthony Weeks
Anthony Weeks is given a ten month jail sentence, suspended for two years, and ordered to pay £600 in compensation to his victim and order to do 80 hours community service after admitting racially aggravated assault against an Egyptian customer at his place of work, a local cash and carry.

November 2007 Andrew Kendall
Andrew Kendall was given an 18 month conditional discharge and fined £200 for putting up a racially-offensive and threatening poster which showed three black men, the words read "Illegal immigrant murder scum".

October 2007 Shaun Jones
Shaun Jones is given a six month community order for threatening polling booth staff on 4 May 2007 with a stick after being told he was not registered to vote. He ignored advice from staff who gave him a phone number to call to register and instead continued shouting and swearing at them until he was arrested. He was also made to pay £150 costs.

Dominic Bugler
Bugler, in the May 2007 elections, is arrested and remanded in custody for the possession of an imitation firearm. He is later handed a two-year ASBO earned because he 'caused misery for residents through his violent and drunken behaviour' and which bans him from parts of Pelsall. The Aldridge and Brownhills Housing Trust won an eviction order against him too but he avoided this by moving of his own accord to a new address. Bugler also appeared in court charge with threatening behaviour towards his wife in late August and agreed to be bound over to keep the peace for 12 months for a sum of £200.

June 2007 Robert Bennett
Robert Bennett, a convicted gang rapist, is arrested for his part in a assault on his next door neighbour which began when they ask his son David to leave a BBQ after he began using racist language. David attacked his neighbour after refusing to leave . He returned with his father and the pair subsequently attacked both the male and female neighbour. Robert Bennett who admitted affray was sentenced to 150 hours community service and £250 compensation whilst his son, who also pleaded guilty, was sentenced to 250 hours community service and ordered to pay £500 compensation.

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

That's what you get for voting Labour, Vote BNP.

Hey dude, those are all BNP activists!

 

[Milton Keynes Seagull]

Hey dude, those are all BNP activists!

I think you'll find it's an attempt at irony. Now vote Labour not BNP!

. Labour Councillor (Newton Aycliffe) Martin Locklyn – Convicted and jailed for 15 years for sexually abusing 3 14-year-old boys.

. Labour Councillor (North Lincolnshire) David Spooner – Convicted and jailed for 1 year for masturbating in front of 2 young boys.

. Labour Mayor (Westhoughton/Lancashire) Nicholas Green – Convicted and jailed for 10 years for 3 rapes and 13 counts of indecent assault against little girls between the age of 6 and 10. He raped one woman on her wedding day.

. Labour Mayor (Todmorden) John Winstanley – Convicted and jailed for rape and threats to kill. After raping and threatening to kill his terrified victim, Winstanley then ordered the woman to go on all fours before urinating on her.

. Prominent Labour Party activist Mark Tann (who has met Tony & Cherie at Party functions) recently got a 15-year sentence for raping a 4-year old girl on 2 separate occasions.

. Labour’s current Parliamentary Candidate (Reading East) Tony Page – Has 2 Convictions for Acts of Gross Indecency` in public toilets.

. Labour Mayor (Burnley) Peter Swainston – Convicted of sex offences in public toilet.

. Entire Labour Party conspired to conceal the activities of Labour Party activist and serial child-molester Mark Trotter, who died from AIDS before he could be convicted.

. Labour Councillor (North Yorkshire) Raymond Coats – Court appearance for indecently assaulting a woman.

. Labour MP (Rhonda Valley) Chris Bryant poses in his pants on the Internet to advertise himself for casual gay sex encounters. Describes himself as “Horny as buggery” and says, “I’d love a good long f***”.

. Labour Councillor (Manchester), George Harding – Charged with indecent assault on a girl of 12.

. Labour MP Ron Davies was mugged by a Rasta on Clapham Common while cruising for gay sex. He was photographed again by the media recently, engaged in some `man-on-man` action in a field off a motorway. “I was only looking for badgers” he said.

. Labour Councillor (Durham), Derrick Payne – Arrested by Police following a sex attack.

. Labour MP, Joe Ashton – Caught up in a Police raid while frequenting a brothel. Tried to lie his way out of the scandal.

. Labour Councillor (Shropshire), Derek Woodvine – Arrested by Police in anti-porn operation.

. Labour Councillor (Basildon), Tony Wright – Forced to resign after being caught using his council computer to download porn.

. Labour MP (Sheffield), Clive Betts – Suspended from Parliament for 7 days after being caught forging immigration papers to extend the stay of his Brazilian rent-boy gay lover.

. According to media reports, the names of 2 former Labour Cabinet Ministers said to be `Household names` appear on the `Operation Ore ` list of subscribers to hard-core child pornography. The same FBI investigation, which led to the arrest of rock star Pete Townshend. So who are they Mr Blair?

VIOLENCE:

. Labour Councillor (Kirkby, Merseyside) Charlie Preston – Convicted and jailed for 5 years in 1982 for assault and burglary. Preston broke into the home of a 64 year old man, and beat him up in his bed as he slept before robbing the house. The judge described the case as “As bad a matter of burglary as I can remember” Preston also holds the position on the Council of… `Deputy Cabinet Member for Youth, Citizenship, and Community Safety`.

. Labour Councillor ( Wales ) Denis Jones – Convicted and jailed for unlawful wounding after attacking a neighbour with a sledgehammer.

. Labour Councillor ( Wales ) Ken Brookman – Bit off a mans ear in a dispute over a seat on a train!

. Labour Councillor and former Mayor (Stockton), Keith Dobinson – Investigated by Police for alleged assault on an OAP, which left the old man of 79, hospitalised.

. Labour MP, Tommy Graham – Expelled from Party for his part in driving a person to suicide.

. Labour Councillors (Ilfracombe), Brian Cotton and Tony Cooper – Investigated by Police following serious allegations of Harassment

 

[simonsimon]

On quickly looking at your pasted list it appears to cover over 20 years.

You could easily format an Irish Brigand list over this time scale.

Jeffrey Archer, Stephen Milligan, David Mellor,John Major, Edwina Currie, Allan Clarke, these being front line politicians of their day, yet alone the political nonentities that you quote.

 

[Milton Keynes Seagull]

On quickly looking at your pasted list it appears to cover over 20 years.

You could easily format an Irish Brigand list over this time scale.

Jeffrey Archer, Stephen Milligan, David Mellor,John Major, Edwina Currie, Allan Clarke, these being front line politicians of their day, yet alone the political nonentities that you quote.

Well it was a reply to the previous pasted list and a question of balance. To be fair there are plenty of perverts, crooks, thugs and assorted anti-social people in the Lib Dem and Tory parties so please don't think I'm singling out Labour, although for war crimes they do seem to have the monopoly. Certainly in the past 7 (not 20) years.

 

[drew]

I think the sniping at the educational background the trories are supposed to have had tell you all you need to know at the Labour supporters on here.

What exactly do you mean by the phrase 'supposed to have had'. Their educational history is there for all to see. Several went to Eton and the vast majority went to private schools. Are you suggesting that all those photos of Cameron and his cronies from their eton days are fakes, a lefty conspiracy of somekind!!!!

Deep breath.

What i will say specifically on the subject of the NHS is this:

I was an A&E Staff Nurse between 1992 and 1996 and previously to that had been a student Nurse trained in Brighton Hospitals and out of the Old School of Nursing in Kingsway, Hove and Sussex Uni.

In the years since I left Nursing and went into The Medical Industry I have continued to work closely with NHS Hospitals all over the UK and other Hospitals right around Europe. My current role means I work in the Intensive Care Medicine arena developing patient safety products.

For what its worth I have the following observations to make:

The NHS has improved massively in just about all critical care settings that is A&E, Coronary and Intensive Care. Facilities, equipment, morale and infrastructure have undergone a huge overhaul, the staff are better paid and the money that has been spent has, by and large, meant that your chance of leaving those areas alive has improved beyond measure.

A&E in particular is worth mentioning because, I think I speak the truth here when I say, not one of you lot with the self important opinions on here, has ever worked in a trauma unit so your opinions, really, count for nought.

When I worked in that area, under the last Conservative Government incidentally, it was collapsing under the weight of targets/patient charters/cost cutting initiatives. The equipment was antiquated and often still being used long past its redundancy, in fact we used to routinely use single patient use devices on multiple patients because of budgetary constraints. Morale was just in freefall after years of governmental neglect, pay-freezes and chronic underfunding generally. What was happening across the whole Health Service was bordering on Criminal. Does anyone remember the 24 hour waiting in A&E, people dying in corridors? 18 month waits for cancer patients? IT WAS ALL TRUE...I WAS THERE.

The Conservatives operated a "Value for Money" system that meant that managers who spent less than their budget got large bonusses based on the savings they made. This simply led to a slashing of spending on vital equipment and services and big bonusses for the, often non clinical, managers.

The Tory way was to just spend nothing on essential public services. It was lazy, route one, stuff.

Fast forward to 2010. The changes made have altered things beyond recognition. True there are still issues, there always will be. True there are still complaints from nurses about poor pay...but you know what? Nurses are often young women who leave the profession to have kids or go into other areas of life so they dont have the continuity of experience that is required to have an informed opinion.


What is true is that you very really hear Nurses with 20 odd years of service under their belts comparing the situation as it is today unfavourably with the situation under the last Tory Govt. In fact I have NEVER heard this from that group. To a one they loathe the Tories of that era for what they did to the NHS, although obviously some are prepared to put this in the past and trust Cameron and the Conservatives once again.

Perhaps they have short memories or perhaps they are now senior Nurses and Managers more interested in how much they are going to be taxed by labour. What is true is that they are typically earing almost 50% more in real terms to do those senior roles than they would have under the last Tory administration.


I can recall some of my colleagues in those days voting Tory much to the horror of their colleagues. BUT I also recall that these weirdos usually had a rich Doctor Husband or similar comfortable home situation so Nursing was almost a hobby for them where they got to dress up and move among the poor dispensing mercy. For those of us trying to pay our ridiculous Mortgages or surviving with a family on pittance wages this was never a voting choice.

Because of my considerable experience in European Hospitals, again in Critical Care I have the following observations:

Firstly France. France has an excellent public health system which consistently delivers some of the best outcomes for diseases such as Cancer and Coronary disease in Europe. France also has some of the most overblown socialist Hospitals with ridiculous bureauracies that stifle innovation and haemorrage money. Their Intensive care areas are poor in comparison with the UK.The Reanimátion Nurses lack autonomy and care suffers as a consequence. Medication errors are common because the staff are relatively poorly trained. France also has no national reporting structure for things like this so it often goes unreported. General dissatisfaction levels among French people with their Hospitals are far greater than in Britain, and in my view, rightly so. The French system is basically inferior to the UK in every way that I have seen.

Germany.

The German Healthcare system, once the envy of the world is now in utter crisis. They enjoy the highest ratio of Doctors to patients and Nurses to beds in Europe but this system is not sustainable long term, especially now.

German Hospitals again operater a "Doctor knows best" system which means that Nurses and other ancilliary staff are little more than operatives with very little ability to challenge on behalf of patients. Their High Dependancy areas offer excellent care levels but, interestingly, relatively poor survival rates in comparison with the UK the insurance based system there means that Hospitals compete with each other for trade so are reluctant to report issues related to patient harm caused in their institutions. They are also reluctant to allow clinical studies which highlight such concerns because it would be bad for trade. Again not a system that should be considered "better" than the NHS although you would certainly feel very well looked after with all the extra Nurses.

The "Best" healthcare system I have seen is in Scandinavia. The investment in Healthcare there is massive and the skills of the Nurses are comparable to the UK. They have clean, well resourced and FREE healthcare with no up-front charges. Patient safety is something that the authorities are keen to pay for and the systems they employ are state of the art. Their populations are small and relatively rich, but highly taxed, so can afford the very best.

The Karolinka in Sweden is just an amazing Hospital with highly skilled, well paid staff. Truly this is the way all Healthcare should be modelled.

Overall UK is behind the Nordics but ahead of the French and German systems. The mediterranean countries do not really have integrated healhcare systems in the way we understand them so really do not bear comparison.

Britain is just behind them and quite a way ahead of France and Germany in my opinion, which, in the absence of anyone else on here actually knowing what they are talking about experientially, is the only opinion that should matter.

The day I start pontificating about the Bond Market, derivitives trading or Share price futures is the day that you lot can give an opinion obn the relative merits of Tory or other management of the Health Service.

Shut the f*** up eh? you're just embarrassing yourselves.

That must rank as the best post I have seen on this forum. Written from experience and in detail. I don't have any experience of the health service other than as a 'customer' but my wife has 20 years experience in ICU and despite all the problems they have, she still believes the service is far better now than it was when under the 'care' of the previous tory administration.

Once again, top post and appreciate the time spent compiling it.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Didn't we have a bit more money for healthcare thanks to Ken Clarke setting things up for a 'boom'?

 

[1066 seagull]

If Bevendean Hillbilly can orate as well as he can scribe - then a career in after dinner speaking beckons. That was a momentous post above...

 

[beorhthelm]

What exactly do you mean by the phrase 'supposed to have had'. Their educational history is there for all to see. Several went to Eton and the vast majority went to private schools. Are you suggesting that all those photos of Cameron and his cronies from their eton days are fakes, a lefty conspiracy of somekind!!!!

point well missed. the underlying question is why do you care? why does it matter that a politian might have had a private education, a great many do - on all sides. wouldnt you wish the best education for your children?

and while we're here, since i dont care much i've never taken the trouble to look it up, so who other than Cameron went to Eton?

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

" What exactly do you mean by the phrase 'supposed to have had'. Their educational history is there for all to see. Several went to Eton and the vast majority went to private schools. Are you suggesting that all those photos of Cameron and his cronies from their eton days are fakes, a lefty conspiracy of somekind!!!! "

Who gives a f*** what school they went to ?.

 

[Billy the Fish]

What exactly do you mean by the phrase 'supposed to have had'. Their educational history is there for all to see. Several went to Eton and the vast majority went to private schools. Are you suggesting that all those photos of Cameron and his cronies from their eton days are fakes, a lefty conspiracy of somekind!!

I think you're missing the point. Many people don't see that as a problem.

It seems stange to me that nearly all labour/lib dem supporters like to think of themselves as liberal and inclusive, but in the next breath discriminate against someone because of the education they received. How queer.


*edit* oops, didn't notice the above posts had already made that point.