[Football] Krept and Konan - official England track

[Whitechapel]

Well, you seem to be prepared to judge a teacher as misguided for saying it once to a class with explicit reference to it being offensive, but not judge K&K.

That makes no sense to me given we live in times where people’s careers (like this teacher) can hang in the balance for a single indiscretion (if indeed it is an indiscretion).

This is in direct counterpoint to K&K who can a) use it indiscriminately and frivolously in their music plus, b) be celebrated by the virtuous anti racism campaigning FA and BBC and front the England team’s anthem.

If it is not a controversial term and society has no problem with its use, then let’s just move on and stop harassing teachers. if it is controversial then let’s continue to call it the n-word in polite society. That doesn’t stop rappers using it in their shallow ditties celebrating sexism, racist stereotypes and finding words that rhyme with Versace.

What is to be........I would let black people make the call, then we can move on from teachers potentially losing their livelihoods.

This teacher/Niger situation is doing a lot of heavy lifting for you, isn’t it?

 

[Bakero]

Well, you seem to be prepared to judge a teacher as misguided for saying it once to a class with explicit reference to it being offensive, but not judge K&K.

That makes no sense to me given we live in times where people’s careers (like this teacher) can hang in the balance for a single indiscretion (if indeed it is an indiscretion).

This is in direct counterpoint to K&K who can a) use it indiscriminately and frivolously in their music plus, b) be celebrated by the virtuous anti racism campaigning FA and BBC and front the England team’s anthem.

If it is not a controversial term and society has no problem with its use, then let’s just move on and stop harassing teachers. if it is controversial then let’s continue to call it the n-word in polite society. That doesn’t stop rappers using it in their shallow ditties celebrating sexism, racist stereotypes and finding words that rhyme with Versace.

What is to be........I would let black people make the call, then we can move on from teachers potentially losing their livelihoods.

Where and how a word is used makes a difference. Me saying "**** off, ref" in a football stadium is no big deal (though it might draw disapproving looks in the Family Stand). Whereas if I said "**** off, Sergio" to a 9-year-old in a classroom, I'd have made a bit of a faux pas.

This is without getting into the etymological history of the N-word, which seems to be irrelevant to you. That history is exactly why I'm willing to judge the teacher but not Krept and Konan. Of course the teacher shouldn't lose his job but, as I said before, there was absolutely no need for him to say it in the classroom.

 

[Bakero]

This teacher/Niger situation is doing a lot of heavy lifting for you, isn’t it?

It seems to be an "if they can say it, why can't I?" situation.

 

[cunning fergus]

This teacher/Niger situation is doing a lot of heavy lifting for you, isn’t it?

In exposing the hypocrisy of the FA, BBC and others...............absolutely.

It’s delicious isn’t it?

Cant you taste it.............mmmmm, like a clotted cream and jam scone. Lovely.

 

[Pint of Ale and a Burger]

I'm wondering if the song is planned to be released when we leave the tournament as a kind of legacy message for the tournament maybe over but the England team continues its quest to ensure unity and fair representation of everyone in society regardless of race,religion,gender or social background?

 

[cunning fergus]

Where and how a word is used makes a difference. Me saying "**** off, ref" in a football stadium is no big deal (though it might draw disapproving looks in the Family Stand). Whereas if I said "**** off, Sergio" to a 9-year-old in a classroom, I'd have made a bit of a faux pas.

This is without getting into the etymological history of the N-word, which seems to be irrelevant to you. That history is exactly why I'm willing to judge the teacher but not Krept and Konan. Of course the teacher shouldn't lose his job but, as I said before, there was absolutely no need for him to say it in the classroom.

This wouldn’t be a running thread if K&K were not the poster boys of the England team’s 2020 Euros anthem, which has been heavily endorsed by the BBC. Two institutions these days that prostrate themselves on the altar of inclusivity and anti racism.

At a time when anyone booing the kneeling England players is a de facto racist according to the FA, then I would expect a similarly clear view from that very same institution for people (whatever colour) that frequently use the term n****r in their work, not to mention the other unenlightened content they offer.

Hypocrisy on this kind of scale stinks and is image damaging.......it is incredible that the BBC and FA with their own different image issues has not considered how this could play out.

You may disagree, but the reality on this issue is simple, it’s not defendable to use such an offensive word WITHOUT some credible reason. The teacher had a credible reason, K&K don’t..........aside from the zealots the vast majority of people would understand that difference.

 

[Guinness Boy]

In exposing the hypocrisy of the FA, BBC and others...............absolutely.

It’s delicious isn’t it?

Cant you taste it.............mmmmm, like a clotted cream and jam scone. Lovely.

You're not exposing any hypocrisy. You're indulging in whataboutery (again) because you want to say that word (again) and don't understand why it exists in two different contexts (again) and have therefore been banned (again)

 

[Bakero]

This wouldn’t be a running thread if K&K were not the poster boys of the England team’s 2020 Euros anthem, which has been heavily endorsed by the BBC. Two institutions these days that prostrate themselves on the altar of inclusivity and anti racism.

At a time when anyone booing the kneeling England players is a de facto racist according to the FA, then I would expect a similarly clear view from that very same institution for people (whatever colour) that frequently use the term n****r in their work, not to mention the other unenlightened content they offer.

Hypocrisy on this kind of scale stinks and is image damaging.......it is incredible that the BBC and FA with their own different image issues has not considered how this could play out.

You may disagree, but the reality on this issue is simple, it’s not defendable to use such an offensive word WITHOUT some credible reason. The teacher had a credible reason, K&K don’t..........aside from the zealots the vast majority of people would understand that difference.

Clearly, you can't or won't see the difference between a black man using the word and a white man doing so. And you accuse others of being zealots

 

[sydney]

One of them has the N word in their name

But I get what you’re saying.

they have carte blanche to use the term , we don't , it's their thing not ours .....i think you said before you had been to the states so you should know what i mean .

 

[Pavilionaire]

Clearly, you can't or won't see the difference between a black man using the word and a white man doing so. And you accuse others of being zealots

Playing devil's advocate, even if it were acceptable for black men to use the 'N' word in their lyrics, and the FA were comfortable with that - as you appear to be - would you agree that the FA have made a terrible error in choosing to partner with an artist with a 10-year history of songs with blatant sexism and misogyny in their lyrics?

 

[sydney]

Plenty of rappers stateside get by without it just fine. The more conscious lyricists tend to shun it, as do the non-African Americans, generally.

You might want to listen to some Snoop and NWA again (emphasis on the N). The latter even had a track that explained why they use the word.

ok mate ...i'm 54 ....i get what you mean ....i had loads of black mates in Brighton and Worthing in the early 80's ....blues do's in Montpellier place ....?? Loved rap as it was back then ....gansta rap is just pony in my opinion....rubbish.

 

[WATFORD zero]

You're not exposing any hypocrisy. You're indulging in whataboutery (again) because you want to say that word (again) and don't understand why it exists in two different contexts (again) and have therefore been banned (again)

I think you must be mistaken, there doesn't appear to be any reference to cunning fergus having been banned for racism on NSC before

 

[dwayne]

Playing devil's advocate, even if it were acceptable for black men to use the 'N' word in their lyrics, and the FA were comfortable with that - as you appear to be - would you agree that the FA have made a terrible error in choosing to partner with an artist with a 10-year history of songs with blatant sexism and misogyny in their lyrics?

I definitely think they have and it's quite funny really!! This song will never get released, equally hilarious that they've somehow been told to make the chorus 'ole' .... it's almost gervaisesque, The FA really are hopeless.

As for the use of the N word I guess it makes old white men feel uneasy (like on this thread) so fair play all the rappers out there that use it.

 

[Bakero]

Playing devil's advocate, even if it were acceptable for black men to use the 'N' word in their lyrics, and the FA were comfortable with that - as you appear to be - would you agree that the FA have made a terrible error in choosing to partner with an artist with a 10-year history of songs with blatant sexism and misogyny in their lyrics?

Like I said earlier in the thread, if you want a stick to beat the FA with, taking the misogyny angle makes more sense.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Like I said earlier in the thread, if you want a stick to beat the FA with, taking the misogyny angle makes more sense.

Agreed. However, an awful lot of rock and pop lyrics could be interpreted as sexist if you wanted to. Rappers tend to be a bit more obvious with it but if I really wanted to go down the whataboutery route (and I don't) I'm sure I could scan New Order's back catalogue or the musings of Keith Allen and find stuff that wouldn't pass the 2021 "acceptability test".

 

[sydney]

we are getting sticky now.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I think you must be mistaken, there doesn't appear to be any reference to cunning fergus having been banned for racism on NSC before

I know you're retired but there are probably better things to do with your time than searching up "Moderating Decisions" for ones we might have "missed" (i.e. CBA to post).

That golf won't play itself.

 

[herecomesaregular]

I know you're retired but there are probably better things to do with your time than searching up "Moderating Decisions" for ones we might have "missed" (i.e. CBA to post).

That golf won't play itself.

It's really annoying on NSC that you can't put a Mod on "ignore" !

 

[Bakero]

Agreed. However, an awful lot of rock and pop lyrics could be interpreted as sexist if you wanted to. Rappers tend to be a bit more obvious with it but if I really wanted to go down the whataboutery route (and I don't) I'm sure I could scan New Order's back catalogue or the musings of Keith Allen and find stuff that wouldn't pass the 2021 "acceptability test".

Most modern pop is absolute filth in terms of the lyrics and videos. I know this as I have to screen songs requested by students. Enough to make the Marquis de Sade blush in some cases.

 

[Whitechapel]

Playing devil's advocate, even if it were acceptable for black men to use the 'N' word in their lyrics, and the FA were comfortable with that - as you appear to be - would you agree that the FA have made a terrible error in choosing to partner with an artist with a 10-year history of songs with blatant sexism and misogyny in their lyrics?

No.

Agreed. However, an awful lot of rock and pop lyrics could be interpreted as sexist if you wanted to. Rappers tend to be a bit more obvious with it but if I really wanted to go down the whataboutery route (and I don't) I'm sure I could scan New Order's back catalogue or the musings of Keith Allen and find stuff that wouldn't pass the 2021 "acceptability test".

For this reason ^

Especially as from the examples Pavillonaire himself has given in this very thread suggest that anything even slightly related to sex is now ‘sexist’


The funniest thing is most rappers (and K&K are a brilliant example of this) are a lot more lyrical and fall in to the usual tropes a lot less often on their album tracks.The problem is they know sex sells and a throwaway track about having sex with a girl who has a fat arse is going to do a lot better on the radio and in nightclubs than a track about their personal hardships and struggle.

Damn those horrible sexist rappers