Justice for the 96

[Husty]

Im not a huge fan of Bodger and Badger

is anyone?

 

[murraymints4brighton]

is anyone?

Err? The Chuckle Brothers and failing them, Bodger and Badger

 

[Collar Feeler]

Its easy to focus on blaming one reason or another for what was essentially a very tragic accident. No-one set out that day to cause the deaths of those unfortunate fans, not the police nor the liverpool fans who rushed into the ground causing the catastrophic crush. Like a lot of similar tragedies, a series of mistakes and bad judgements allied to poor stadium design and the caging of fans like cattle all contributed to what happened. What strikes me as some of the more important factors that contributed to the disaster were the poor communications setup of the police. This ultimately led to several misguided decisions which were made in good faith but were a major contributory factor in what eventually happened. There are other less explored or understood factors such as the effect of crowd dynamics which could not have been foreseen or anticipated. Overall it was a very sad day for football and for Liverpool. Talking about justice for the 96 in my opinion is an open ended minefield of debate. When you consider the myriad of contributory factors its difficult to see how anyone can be held to account for it.

 

[little al]

There were a number of circumstances which together resulted in that disaster namely

i) some fans were delayed by traffic problems getting to the ground later than expected.

ii) previously at hillsborough, tickets were checked before fans got to the turnstiles. This wasn't done for this game.

iii) the FA failed to delay the kick off because that wasn't the done thing in them days

iii) there was a crush developing outside, things were getting hostile and there were concerns about safety of those outside which is why they opened the gates

iv) They failed to direct fans towards the side enclosures and away from the main tunnel into the central enclosures.

v) police officers would not make a decision to allow people into the side enclosures from the central enclosure without approval from senior officers

vi) it is reported that the senior officer in charge 'froze'.

I also read recently that the number of people in the enclosure was only 24 above capacity. If true, it kind of puts the 'ticketless hordes' suggestion to bed.

Those causing trouble outside the ground have to take some of the blame, I believe the FA have to take some of the blame, as do South Yorkshire police. Had they not been delayed in traffic (a motorway accident if I remember correctly), had the ticket checking in advance of the turnstiles been in place, had the FA delayed kick off, had people queued in an orderly fashion, had they blocked off the tunnel to the central enclosure, had they opened the gates from the central enclosure to the sides, perhaps we wouldn't be having this discussion.

:This is a very good post.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Its easy to focus on blaming one reason or another for what was essentially a very tragic accident. No-one set out that day to cause the deaths of those unfortunate fans, not the police nor the liverpool fans who rushed into the ground causing the catastrophic crush. Like a lot of similar tragedies, a series of mistakes and bad judgements allied to poor stadium design and the caging of fans like cattle all contributed to what happened. What strikes me as some of the more important factors that contributed to the disaster were the poor communications setup of the police. This ultimately led to several misguided decisions which were made in good faith but were a major contributory factor in what eventually happened. There are other less explored or understood factors such as the effect of crowd dynamics which could not have been foreseen or anticipated. Overall it was a very sad day for football and for Liverpool. Talking about justice for the 96 in my opinion is an open ended minefield of debate. When you consider the myriad of contributory factors its difficult to see how anyone can be held to account for it.

Yes there were a lot of factors

The fencing was probably the main thing that led to so many dead as there was no escape and any crush would have been able to have been cleared if the fence had not been there.

I always wonder why whoever decided to fence fans in at that time did not come under more stick.

But lets not dodge the main cause and that was some pretty shoddy policing.

And that inept policing carried on past 3.15 and caused the death and hurt to a lot more families.

Like G20 today the police's first call is to blame everyone else and try and hide any actions by them that might be to blame.

What did the police think would happen?
In those days fans always (Liverpool and most other clubs) turned up in numbers, some ticketless, some drunk. Ticketless fans always try and storm in even today. The police on that day made all that worse and then failed to act properly when it was pretty obvious people were in danger and it was not due to violence

 

[herecomesaregular]

for me the overriding memory of watching it on tv is the line of policemen who stood and watched and didn't help, concerned only that liverpool fans might charge to the other end to attack the forest fans. i don't care what your "orders" are, it was obvious what was unfolding and they stood and did nothing, even preventing fans taking the injured out. disgusting.

 

[Burgess Hill Seagulls]

f*** off pork sword you little nazi prick.


go on ban me

 

[SNOOBS]

So whats the chant about "Justice for the 96"

What do they mean, are they saying they want the police to get their comeuppance?

 

[Acker79]

Why would fans need to be shepherded into side pens, couldn't they tell the main stand was too crowded and chosen to walk back out and make their ways to the pens, or would that be like trying to go from the south west stand of the goldstone to the north west, where you'd have to leave the stadium and go to the other side to get back in?

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Why would fans need to be shepherded into side pens, couldn't they tell the main stand was too crowded and chosen to walk back out and make their ways to the pens, or would that be like trying to go from the south west stand of the goldstone to the north west, where you'd have to leave the stadium and go to the other side to get back in?

Its a drawback of standing sections - everyone wants to stand with their mates in the centre of the main stand. The fencing at Hillsborough was at the sides as well as the front and they didn't open up the pens. what with the rush to get in, the crap policing and everyone trying to get to the same overcrowded stand it was bound to happen.

The Taylor report saw that and brought in ticketing and seating which stopped the overcrowding and made policing easy for them as it enables them to pinpoint troublemakers and control where people are. You can't cause problems and then stand somewhere else anymore. Thats why they don't want standing in the seats and why you are told to sit down. Sure its a safety point but its much easier to spot and film you if you are seated.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

So whats the chant about "Justice for the 96"

What do they mean, are they saying they want the police to get their comeuppance?

i think the main point is for someone to apologise and admit they made mistakes.

also the not having a inquest into what happened after 3.15pm is a big insult.

Some of the things that happened after 3.15 were totally unacceptable. Ambulances blocked in, not enough equipment, Not allowing an ambulance on the pitch, not letting relatives see the dead etc etc

 

[Twinkle Toes]

Pork Sword wouldn't recognise Truth &/or Justice if it came & kicked him up his worthless arse. I wish he'd just get back in his f***ing cave & stay there. Total Grade-A Wanker.

 

[Rookie]

So whats the chant about "Justice for the 96"

What do they mean, are they saying they want the police to get their comeuppance?

To bring someone to account for it and not the whitewash it has been for the last 20 years.

 

[Ipswich_Seagull]

This post will run and run

It's just awful how it took the death of nearly 100 people for the police and football to start treating the fans like human beings again

 

[The Grockle]

What a prick

So you think that letting near on double the amount of people than the capacity in a stadium is right?
Its a fact that in an enclosed space it would cause more danger than it would do in a relatively open space

People other than the police reported that had the gates not been open, people would have died.

There had been reports of overcrowding at Hillsborough on numerous occasions, it was a tragedy waiting to happen. The police handled the sittuation badly but the Liverpool fans contributed, i dont think anyone can honestly say that the Liverpool fans were not partly to blame.

 

[Ipswich_Seagull]

People other than the police reported that had the gates not been open, people would have died.

There had been reports of overcrowding at Hillsborough on numerous occasions, it was a tragedy waiting to happen. The police handled the sittuation badly but the Liverpool fans contributed, i dont think anyone can honestly say that the Liverpool fans were not partly to blame.

So many contributing factors, if's but's and maybe's.

We've all been late for games and didn't want to miss anything-it's not an excuse but a real factor. The game should have been delayed until they could get everyone in.

 

[Nadger]

Who tried to over turn the ambulance Alan Smith was in after breaking his leg?
Who chants "Munich scum" and never gets mentioned ?
Who casued the Heysel disaster ?
Who charged in to the champions league final without tickets?
+ many more incidents

Liverpool fans and the scum of the football world and seem to be untouchable with any criticism. It's allways someone elses fault, wallowing in self pity,

 

[Bwian]

Who tried to over turn the ambulance Alan Smith was in after breaking his leg?
Who chants "Munich scum" and never gets mentioned ?
Who casued the Heysel disaster ?
Who charged in to the champions league final without tickets?
+ many more incidents

Liverpool fans and the scum of the football world and seem to be untouchable with any criticism. It's allways someone elses fault, wallowing in self pity,

Congratulations-you have won a lifetime's subscription to The Sun, where you clearly get your facts and opinions from.

 

[Twinkle Toes]

Who tried to over turn the ambulance Alan Smith was in after breaking his leg?
Who chants "Munich scum" and never gets mentioned ?
Who casued the Heysel disaster ?
Who charged in to the champions league final without tickets?
+ many more incidents

Liverpool fans and the scum of the football world and seem to be untouchable with any criticism. It's allways someone elses fault, wallowing in self pity,

f*** off - you 'orrible, insensitive moron. Should be ashamed of yourself if you actually believe Liverpool supporters are all like that.

 

[Nadger]

Congratulations-you have won a lifetime's subscription to The Sun, where you clearly get your facts and opinions from.

I clearly do all those incidents were reported by all papers and media all blaming the liverpool fans. You try and tell me one thing on that list they did not do! I'm not talking about Hillsborough which I agree they did not cause but they certainly were a huge factor of.

I supose you think michael shields is not guilty as well