Just had a look through, can't see a "Navarro is crap" thread?

[Silent Bob]

I think Navarro offers the team far more than Dicker who makes nice turns every now and then, but isn't good defensively and rarely gets involved in goals

Did you go to any of the games this season when Navarro played and Dicker didn't?
Or any pretty much any game last season before Dicker signed?

Without him in the side we're barely capable of making a forward pass.

 

[Mellotron]

When was the last time Dicker played a killer ball? Oh hang on, he doesn't either.
Dicker does intelligent simple passes, not creative ones. He doesn't score goals. When he's been further forward, he hasn't scored goals. Slade and Poyet haven't given him an advanced role. He's not an attacking midfielder.

Crofts offers "NOTHING" to the side, despite being a better ball winner than Dicker, and outscoring every other one of our midfielders this season put together. He also makes intelligent passes, he just doesn't have quite the composure or control of Dicker.

Poyet CLEARLY doesn't want to play a straight 4-4-2, he'd rather play the passing game and try and put Forster/Bennett through. So all this talk of a balanced midfield is just another f***ing pointless NSC cliche, in order to give strength to the tiresome campaign of "the sun shines out of Dickers arse, but Navarro is the anti-christ".

It's boring, to be honest.

You've totally ruined your entire post near the end, as I am suggesting that we drop Crofts, NOT Navarro. Try again.



Blimey this is basic stuff. Let's go through it. CROFTS is playing in the position where players can make killer balls through to the forwards. He NEVER does this. Play Dicker (that's the one who wears 18, you know?) in that role and he will play those balls, because we know he can play creative and intelligent passes, something Crofts does not do.

We covered Crofts goal-scoring record (were you not paying attention?) so your comment there is a complete waste of text.

You contradict yourself by saying "when Dicker's played further forward...then immediately saying "he hasn't been played in an advanced position". Make your mind up.

You assume (bizarrely) that Poyet has given up on getting a left sided-midfielder, despite it being well known that he wants one.

Apart from that, well done.

 

[Withdean Wanderer]

You've totally ruined your entire post near the end, as I am suggesting that we drop Crofts, NOT Navarro. Try again.



Blimey this is basic stuff. Let's go through it. CROFTS is playing in the position where players can make killer balls through to the forwards. He NEVER does this. Play Dicker (that's the one who wears 18, you know?) in that role and he will play those balls, because we know he can play creative and intelligent passes, something Crofts does not do.

We covered Crofts goal-scoring record (were you not paying attention?) so your comment there is a complete waste of text.

You contradict yourself by saying "when Dicker's played further forward...then immediately saying "he hasn't been played in an advanced position". Make your mind up.

You assume (bizarrely) that Poyet has given up on getting a left sided-midfielder, despite it being well known that he wants one.

If you really want basics, then we can admire a few more facts.

1) The last sentence is taking about NSC twatty generalisations on the whole, not your specific dribble.

2) You flicked over the fact that Crofts scoring record and Bennetts assists are the only thing about our midfield keeping us from the relegation zone at the moment. Dicker, currently, is a luxury we can't afford, as we've got Navarro doing his tackling, Bennett setting up the goals, and Crofts scoring them.

3) Contradiction - yes. The point being though that Dicker may not have started in an advanced role, but that doesn't mean he's been pinned in our half for entire matches. He hasn't. He gets forward too, he just doesn't do anything there.

4) There's no evidence of Dicker being creative. Intelligence - yes. Creative? Nope.

5) Assumptions are based on the FACTS that we no longer play Cox on the left, we don't play Mcleod, and Poyet is happy with what Navarro and Crofts are doing, as he's said so in the press.

To summarise then: don't be a patronising bellend, stick to your short-sighted delusions of grandeur with regard to Dicker, but I disagree. And so does Poyet, which is more important.

 

[Mellotron]

If you really want basics, then we can admire a few more facts.

1) The last sentence is taking about NSC twatty generalisations on the whole, not your specific dribble.

2) You flicked over the fact that Crofts scoring record and Bennetts assists are the only thing about our midfield keeping us from the relegation zone at the moment. Dicker, currently, is a luxury we can't afford, as we've got Navarro doing his tackling, Bennett setting up the goals, and Crofts scoring them.

3) Contradiction - yes. The point being though that Dicker may not have started in an advanced role, but that doesn't mean he's been pinned in our half for entire matches. He hasn't. He gets forward too, he just doesn't do anything there.

4) There's no evidence of Dicker being creative. Intelligence - yes. Creative? Nope.

5) Assumptions are based on the FACTS that we no longer play Cox on the left, we don't play Mcleod, and Poyet is happy with what Navarro and Crofts are doing, as he's said so in the press.

To summarise then: don't be a patronising bellend, stick to your short-sighted delusions of grandeur with regard to Dicker, but I disagree. And so does Poyet, which is more important.

*Insert massive pot/kettle picture here regarding being patronising*

1) Fair enough, but all of that came about in the first place because Navarro WAS poor at first. Simple as that. He was. Dicker meanwhile, has been consistently good. Remember Poyet saying he was "miles ahead of anyone else on the pitch that day, top class player etc"? Despite your hatred, Dicker has been our most consistent midfielder this year, in terms of all round performances.

2) I didn't "flick over" it, I brought it up in the first place! Me!

3) You know full well it is a completely different story Dicker occasionally getting into an advanced position (with Crofts still there, so not the same space is it?) to actually playing in that position.

Errm...How about Wycombe away? How did we do with Dicker and Navarro in that game, with Cox out wide? Best performance of the season, was it not? And more importantly, best collective midfield performance of the season.

4) I've seen plenty of creative and intelligent passes from Dicker. How about his ball out to set up one of the goals against Southampton? I know he's further back so perhaps you don't notice how many moves he sets in motion with his expansive passing range.

5) Once again, you're assuming this is how Poyet wants to play out the rest of the season. I would say it's a stop gap that is working reasonably well, but certainly not the long term plan. Unlike you I wouldn't assume to know exactly what Poyet is thinking, but I'm guessing he would agree with me here.

 

[Mellotron]

Actually, WW, forget the rest of the post.

I'd just like to hear your thoughts on the midfield performance in the Wycombe game. By far our most fluid midfield performance of the season. We could've had 6 or 7 goals, the service from Bennett, Dicker and Cox was that good, with Navarro mopping up behind them.

 

[Withdean Wanderer]

Actually, WW, forget the rest of the post.

I'd just like to hear your thoughts on the midfield performance in the Wycombe game. By far our most fluid midfield performance of the season. We could've had 6 or 7 goals, the service from Bennett, Dicker and Cox was that good, with Navarro mopping up behind them.

As I saw that game, it was certainly not a "fluid midfield performance", it was an unbelievable forwardline performance, combined with a frankly abysmal defence representing the worst team in the league which we had put 4 past a few weeks previously. In the first half, I vividly recall us being totally dire.

Dicker did play well in the second half of that game, but his best work interestingly was down the right (I seem to remember he actually set up a goal with a cross!!). Still, it fuels your theory that he's better without Crofts, so run with it if you wish.

Going back to your earlier post, I remember two killer balls in the Saints game - 1) From Crofts, to Cox, who set up Murray, 2) From Dicker, to Dickinson, who set up Crofts. Read into that what you will.


Unfortunately, you've got previous with your total obsession with Murray being untouchable, so I can't help but think this is an argument that is going nowhere.

 

[Chesney Christ]

Withdean Wanderer - what do you think of Andrea Pirlo (not now, back when he was at his best)? Or Xabi Alonso? How was would you describe them as players and what would you say they bring to a side?

 

[Chesney Christ]

Going back to your earlier post, I remember two killer balls in the Saints game - 1) From Crofts, to Cox, who set up Murray, 2) From Dicker, to Dickinson, who set up Crofts. Read into that what you will.

Oh dear. The ball out to Cox that you refer to was actually player by Dicker.

It was typical of Dicker in that it opened up play brilliantly, but wasn't the final assist to the goal meaning that you think he is shit presumably because you only rate players based on Fantasy Football League points!

Two killer balls by Dicker in that game then...... and 0 by Crofts in the same game.

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

It was Crofts.

Oh dear

 

[The Wizard]

It was Crofts.

Oh dear

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Oh dear. The ball out to Cox that you refer to was actually player by Dicker.
.

Dicker > Crofts > Cox > Murray >

 

[mona]

I thought Navarro played well at Villa. The Navarro that was playing when Russell was manager was unfit. He was obviously under the influence of that other scouser -the waster McLeod. Well done Gus P for getting the bloke fit.

PS Are the rules on NSC that if you rate Dicker, you must hate Navarro - and vice versa ?

 

[Withdean Wanderer]

Oh dear. The ball out to Cox that you refer to was actually player by Dicker.

It was typical of Dicker in that it opened up play brilliantly, but wasn't the final assist to the goal meaning that you think he is shit presumably because you only rate players based on Fantasy Football League points!

Two killer balls by Dicker in that game then...... and 0 by Crofts in the same game.

Some people will re-write history to find an exuse to praise their hero!

I thought Navarro played well at Villa. The Navarro that was playing when Russell was manager was unfit. He was obviously under the influence of that other scouser -the waster McLeod. Well done Gus P for getting the bloke fit.

PS Are the rules on NSC that if you rate Dicker, you must hate Navarro - and vice versa ?

Seems that way, although in fairness Mellotron is something of an exception to the rule, in that he prefers them both to Crofts, who accounts for 60% of all our goals from midfield this season!

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

I wonder who makes up the rest of Poyet's top 5?

Murray and Forster definitely.

Crofts I would assume because of the goals and captaincy.

Bennett for his natural ability? He's been a mainstay but there hasnt been much competition.

 

[Chesney Christ]

Some people will re-write history to find an exuse to praise their hero!

I was being very dumb sorry. I forgot the one-two with Crofts. However, what about the superb ball out wide from Dicker to Cox to start the whole thing? That was better and more difficult to do than the Crofts pass, but I imagine you will dismiss it as meaningless because it happened from a deep position.

I don't get why you hate Dicker so much, and equally I don't understand the hatred of Navarro on here or TCB's hatred of Crofts. Its all so stupid. "I rate such and such so I have to hate such and such". All a bit childish really isn't it? Kindergarten stuff.

For me, I would play Dicker with Navarro as Navarro breaks up play well from deep and Dicker is more creative, skillful and much better at passing than Crofts. But that doesn't mean I HATE Crofts, I just prefer the other two.

The Dicker/Navarro partnership has been played just once to my knowledge and we absolutely ripped apart Wycombe. You can say they were bad defensively, but you could say that about Oldham, Stockport, Tranmere etc and we have not done the same to any of those teams.

 

[Chesney Christ]

Seems that way, although in fairness Mellotron is something of an exception to the rule, in that he prefers them both to Crofts, who accounts for 60% of all our goals from midfield this season!

Irrelevant. He has played in the attacking midfield role and has played more games than Dicker. Navarro has played significantly less than Crofts and has played in defensive midfield. If you look throughout most sides in the football league you will find that generally attacking midfielders score more than holding midfielders.

 

[HseagullsH]

I wonder who makes up the rest of Poyet's top 5?

Murray and Forster definitely.

Crofts I would assume because of the goals and captaincy.

Bennett for his natural ability? He's been a mainstay but there hasnt been much competition.

Going on what he has said and players he has played consistantly since his arrival..

El-Abd, Crofts, Murray, Forster, Elphick, Dicker, Bennett, Navarro.

They are the players he's either played week in week out, or singled out for praise.

 

[Mellotron]

As I saw that game, it was certainly not a "fluid midfield performance", it was an unbelievable forwardline performance, combined with a frankly abysmal defence representing the worst team in the league which we had put 4 past a few weeks previously. In the first half, I vividly recall us being totally dire.

Unfortunately, you've got previous with your total obsession with Murray being untouchable, so I can't help but think this is an argument that is going nowhere.

As I commented during the game, we could've easily scored 6 or 7 in that game. Did the ball magically appear at Murray and Forster's head and feet for each goal? Almost every goal was a result of excellent work from the midfield. Wasn't it?

Errr, as for that bottom paragraph, that was mostly about me defending Murray from a bunch of morons determined to character-assassinate him, and frankly I've felt massively vindicated in that area, thanks very much.

Not untouchable at all, his form is variable, and a couple of times I rated Dickinson above him, which proves that you're incorrect there.

 

[Bhafcman]

anyone else remember dicker's through ball to set up owusu's 2nd at home to oldham last season?

 

[Chesney Christ]

Going on what he has said and players he has played consistantly since his arrival..

El-Abd, Crofts, Murray, Forster, Elphick, Dicker, Bennett, Navarro.

They are the players he's either played week in week out, or singled out for praise.

Bennett surprisingly been pretty ordinary under Poyet.