ITV offends with coloured remark

[Questions]

Neither. He is South African.

Of course he is South African but heaven help if you are ever asked to describe someone from there.

Using skin colour to describe someone is not racist, it is just a way of giving a more accurate description of what that person looks like or from what ethnic group they are from when talking about Africa.

I dont give a f*** that the line keeps changing over here, i,m sure i,ll get it wrong often enough but in ZA the rules are different as well you know.

 

[Triggaaar]

Black is a simple term to describe people of African descent as White is a simple term to describe people of Caucasian descent. I dread the day, should it ever arrive, when the PC brigade mandate that Black is an offensive term. On that day the lunatics will have taken over the asylum. It is not the term "black" which is offensive (and it never will be). Any offense is caused by the way the term is used.

I don't disagree (except I wouldn't call an Indian, of Caucasian decent, white).

 

[Castello]

Me thinks you are far too clever for your own good Castello! Failing to appreciate intent and therefore context is a slippery slope. Surely black people using the word ****** is all about context and intent? Are they narrow minded bigots?

I find the concept of someone being TOO clever confusing. Surely being clever is a good thing. Though it appears that at the same time as being too clever, I am pitied for my stupidity

Anyway the point i was really making as well you know, is that intent isnt all that matters when offending someone. How it is received is at least as important. Which is why your example doesn't cause offence. but the quiet determination to use a term that a whole range of people have stated is offensive does cause offence.

 

[BadFish]

Neither Adolf or Judas are Adjectives, they are "Proper nouns" so your argument is questionable, very questionable!

Are you saying that the word coloured when used to describe black people does not come with a weight of historical and cultural significance?

I don't see how the type of words used makes the argument questionable. Could you enlighten me?

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

Are you saying that the word coloured when used to describe black people does not come with a weight of historical and cultural significance?

I don't see how the type of words used makes the argument questionable. Could you enlighten me?

I think he is arguing that only adjectives provide meaning to words. Dubious.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

Big noses, that's the Roman's for you! Bloody immigrants!

With regard to your last question, I find it rare I have to distinguish between people with respect to their race, same as I don't generally need to differentiate between peoples sexual preference, or whether they're disabled or whatever might distinguish them from others. If my 5 year old son at the football asks me which player is Jason Roberts, I'd probably say 'the black guy on the edge of our box'. If I said 'the coloured guy on the edge of our box', no doubt my son would ask 'which colour?'. 5 year olds can teach us a lot if you listen to them.

You could do with a sandal today!

Lol! To me if you call a guy black because he is, (Jason Roberts for ie) that is OK,remember there is a possiblility there might be several black players on the pitch...no problem...so what is wrong with 'Coloured'...all you are doing is trying to describe the player...now neither of them are insults...too many people leap up to say that's insulting...blame the compensation culture for that...people say one is an insult...others say the other is an insult...lets get a common denominator....we are called White/Caucasian...what is the correct name for black where nobody is insulted....let's call a spade a spade....oops ...should'nt have said that old adage.

Moved to a Sandal...fine for this weather but it will be draughty in the winter

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Lol! To me if you call a guy black because he is, (Jason Roberts for ie) that is OK,remember there is a possiblility there might be several black players on the pitch...no problem...so what is wrong with 'Coloured'...all you are doing is trying to describe the player...now neither of them are insults...too many people leap up to say that's insulting...blame the compensation culture for that...people say one is an insult...others say the other is an insult...lets get a common denominator....we are called White/Caucasian...what is the correct name for black where nobody is insulted....let's call a spade a spade....oops ...should'nt have said that old adage.

Moved to a Sandal...fine for this weather but it will be draughty in the winter

Just semantics perhaps but they"spade a spade" remark there probably gives us all a fair idea of your stance on race relations.

The term coloured is lazy and vaguely derogatory...you can describe Jason Roberts as "that coloured player" if you like but you would just come across as bit of a bellend or sme sort of 1970's throwback.

I have never met a black person in my life who is upset by being described as such...we have Black History month...we have The Black Police association...but we don't have the Coloured Police Association or Coloured History month. There might be a reason for that.

 

[Triggaaar]

lets get a common denominator....we are called White/Caucasian...what is the correct name for black where nobody is insulted

Mmm, tough question, but I'll have a go - describe the race of white people as, er, white, and black people as, er, black. Phew, I'm off for a lie down.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

Just semantics perhaps but they"spade a spade" remark there probably gives us all a fair idea of your stance on race relations.

The term coloured is lazy and vaguely derogatory...you can describe Jason Roberts as "that coloured player" if you like but you would just come across as bit of a bellend or sme sort of 1970's throwback.

I have never met a black person in my life who is upset by being described as such...we have Black History month...we have The Black Police association...but we don't have the Coloured Police Association or Coloured History month. There might be a reason for that.

Thanks...you have just proved my point...people are quick to take offence at any remark...coloured is not insulting neither is black or any other remark unless it is said in venomous tones and meant to be a put down. You say 'Coloured is insulting...why,when you called a man black in the 50s there was a huge outcry and black people demanded to be called coloured...now they deem it insulting....there is no pleasing some people.
As for you using the 'assumption 'of my idea of race relations......it's only an assumption that you are using...not proof...don't you see it is you that is using the race card and immediately blaming someone else for being Racist.
During the 60s I happened to be at a Chelsea match when fans were making monkey noises and throwing bananas at opposition players,I said why are you doing this when you have black players on your side....his Answer, Yes,but our black players are better than their black players.
I lived for 2 years with a black girl and lived with a Chinese girl as well...so you have no idea of my view race relations,my earlier post said ' I look past the skin colour into a persons personatility'
If you find the word 'Coloured insulting then it is you with the problem because you will upset a lot of people of mixed race!

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

It is not a universal truth that 'coloured' is a term that everyone finds insulting. The NAACP (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People) continues to this day in America. While I understand and accept the reasons why the term 'coloured' is considered problematic by some, I accept others still want to be identified by it. No problem at all. And if the terms people want to be known by changes from one generation to the next, again I have no problem with going with the flow of what they want.

Let's just call people what they want to be called and accept that sometimes what they want to be called will change. Be OK with it. In the same way, let's be OK that sometimes people will use a term by which others mostly don't wish to be identified as any more. It doesn't automatically make them racist.

 

[User removed 4]

Thanks...you have just proved my point...people are quick to take offence at any remark...coloured is not insulting neither is black or any other remark unless it is said in venomous tones and meant to be a put down. You say 'Coloured is insulting...why,when you called a man black in the 50s there was a huge outcry and black people demanded to be called coloured...now they deem it insulting....there is no pleasing some people.
As for you using the 'assumption 'of my idea of race relations......it's only an assumption that you are using...not proof...don't you see it is you that is using the race card and immediately blaming someone else for being Racist.
During the 60s I happened to be at a Chelsea match when fans were making monkey noises and throwing bananas at opposition players,I said why are you doing this when you have black players on your side....his Answer, Yes,but our black players are better than their black players.
I lived for 2 years with a black girl and lived with a Chinese girl as well...so you have no idea of my view race relations,my earlier post said ' I look past the skin colour into a persons personatility'
If you find the word 'Coloured insulting then it is you with the problem because you will upset a lot of people of mixed race!

I'd be extremely interested to know who these black players were ??

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

I'd be extremely interested to know who these black players were ??

I thought Paul Canoville was Chelsea's first black player. But this was much later than the 1960s. Certainly can't remember any before Canoville.

 

[Seagull58]

I didn't say that.

I didn't say otherwise.

I said that the white people in Britain that called black people coloured, and assumed that they themselves were of no colour, were ignorant/racist.

You said "The idea of calling someone coloured is to start with the assumption that one race is the normal, and that the others aren't."

 

[Seagull58]

Of course he is South African but heaven help if you are ever asked to describe someone from there.

Using skin colour to describe someone is not racist, it is just a way of giving a more accurate description of what that person looks like or from what ethnic group they are from when talking about Africa.

I dont give a f*** that the line keeps changing over here, i,m sure i,ll get it wrong often enough but in ZA the rules are different as well you know.

The current line over here, in some quarters, is that Blacks are blacks and Whites are criminals.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Thanks...you have just proved my point...people are quick to take offence at any remark...coloured is not insulting neither is black or any other remark unless it is said in venomous tones and meant to be a put down. You say 'Coloured is insulting...why,when you called a man black in the 50s there was a huge outcry and black people demanded to be called coloured...now they deem it insulting....there is no pleasing some people.
As for you using the 'assumption 'of my idea of race relations......it's only an assumption that you are using...not proof...don't you see it is you that is using the race card and immediately blaming someone else for being Racist.
During the 60s I happened to be at a Chelsea match when fans were making monkey noises and throwing bananas at opposition players,I said why are you doing this when you have black players on your side....his Answer, Yes,but our black players are better than their black players.
I lived for 2 years with a black girl and lived with a Chinese girl as well...so you have no idea of my view race relations,my earlier post said ' I look past the skin colour into a persons personatility'
If you find the word 'Coloured insulting then it is you with the problem because you will upset a lot of people of mixed race!

You are a product of your generation mate. It was probably OK to use the term "coloured" in the 1960's because we didnt have any concept of race relations in any meaningful way back then.

The reason why "coloured" became unacceptable in the recent past is that it harks back to the times when landladies would happily hang signs in their windows "No Coloureds, no Irish, no Dogs"

Coloured is just an anachronism that society, in the main, has moved on from.

I am pleased that you have had a black girlfriend in the past and a chinese one...it means that you are not a bigot. I apologise for calling you one if that is so. Hopefully your memories of who you have dated is better than your memories of the multitude of black players at Stamford Bridge in the 1960's.

I dont really care what you call people with different skin colour to you, I am certain that what I say on here would not change that. I would though just ask you to take a trip to Brixton and walk about asking black people if they objected to being called coloured by white people. It might be enlightening for you. The response you got there should be the way in which you use language going forward. That is the one and only yardstick of acceptability.

I have noticed that Asian people of a certain age (over 50) dont seem to be bothered about the term but none of the younger ones are happy with this descriptor either.

I completely reject the assertion you make that people of mixed race would be happy to be called coloured. In fact this is the reason that the term was removed from the census. I have worked with and socialised with many in this group and they usually identify themselves as "black" because this is the way they are seen by society. Typically these people are more "black" than africans in the way they see the world stacked against them.

The advancement of coloured people movement in the US was started in the febrile atmosphere of the 1960's I believe when the term "coloured" was employed in such ways as making blacks use different bus seats and bath houses, it was so named to reflect the fact that ALL blacks..whether mixed race or not...were lumped together as coloured for the purposes of segregation from nice white people.

I dont know but perhaps the name is meant to act as a reminder that this was once the reality that we should not return to.

Anyhoo. Keep on keeping on.

 

[Triggaaar]

You said "The idea of calling someone coloured is to start with the assumption that one race is the normal, and that the others aren't."

Yes. To which you replied
"That's rubbish. If one person is described as white and another is described as black why would "white" be the normal race"
Which is not what I said.
The point I made is that if you have a country (any country, with any race of people) and an ethnic minority arrives (eg white people arriving in Africa), for the home nation (in this example Africa) to call the new arrivals 'coloured' is ignorant, and assumes that the home race is normal, and that these immigrants are coloured. And such ignorance is perfectly understandable. It goes without saying that all countries used to be ignorant to other races. Our friends up in Hartlepool hung a monkey because they thought it was a Frenchman. A little ignorant. Back in the day, any country would have thought there skin colour was 'normal' and that an immigrant of different race was abnormal. Choosing to call any such immigrants coloured would be based on bias and ignorance rather than accuracy.

 

[Finch]

You're way off the mark. Here in South Africa there is no problem at all with describing people as Black (typically African), Indian, Coloured (typically mixed race indian/black or malaysian/black or white/black), Chinese or White. Amongst the black community racial heritage is very important to the Zulus, Xhosas, Ndebele, Khoisan etc. They are quite happy to be described as Black and even happier to be recognised as Zulus etc. There is Black Empowerment legislation to ensure that historically disadvantaged races, typically the black population, are helped into the workforce and into management so that the racial balance in work and business more closely reflects the racial balance in the population as a whole.
You've been indoctrinated by the PC brigade to believe that it is racist to describe someone as black or coloured. It is only racist if you are using the term as an insult.

I'm glad you posted. I don't experience these problems in my country, people are people, you call them whatever fits and its rare for people to take offence when none was intended. It seems the UK has some sort of conscience problem and it trying to overcompensate?

My brother is Maori / Chinese / Rarotongan. I don't think I've ever referred to the colour of his skin, but I'm sure he would find it hilarious if I did.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

I'm glad you posted. I don't experience these problems in my country, people are people, you call them whatever fits and its rare for people to take offence when none was intended. It seems the UK has some sort of conscience problem and it trying to overcompensate?

My brother is Maori / Chinese / Rarotongan. I don't think I've ever referred to the colour of his skin, but I'm sure he would find it hilarious if I did.

That must be a different New Zealand than the one my mate comes from.

When he arrived in London from Aukland he never stopped going on about the number of blacks and Asians. He was using the usual derogatory terms for them as were his Kiwi mates. Perhaps there is a cultural difference with large scale migration from Africa,Carribean and Asian countries not really having hit NZ in the same numbers as here.

Your brother is obviously more indigenous racially than you are so can hardly be classed as an immigrant...although I am sure you will agree that the Maori and the Aborigines were not looked on with kindness and tolerance for the first couple of hundred years of European settlement. Australia in particular has still got a massive way to go in this regard. Modern New Zealand treats Maoris with respect as fellow citizens...but if they were a bit blacker...I'm not so sure.

 

[SK1NT]

I think coloured just lumps many different groups into one. I think the term black, asian etc is what is preferred and i agree. As it seems as if there is a.. them and us mentality whites and coloured.

 

[Finch]

That must be a different New Zealand than the one my mate comes from.

When he arrived in London from Aukland he never stopped going on about the number of blacks and Asians. He was using the usual derogatory terms for them as were his Kiwi mates. Perhaps there is a cultural difference with large scale migration from Africa,Carribean and Asian countries not really having hit NZ in the same numbers as here.

Your brother is obviously more indigenous racially than you are so can hardly be classed as an immigrant...although I am sure you will agree that the Maori and the Aborigines were not looked on with kindness and tolerance for the first couple of hundred years of European settlement. Australia in particular has still got a massive way to go in this regard. Modern New Zealand treats Maoris with respect as fellow citizens...but if they were a bit blacker...I'm not so sure.

There is always the odd bad egg in any country / social group. NZ and Australia are nothing alike though in this respect. I consider Australia terrible, they have a lot of hatred to various communities like the lebanese etc on the east coast, and lack much respect for their aboriginal people (in general, particularly the youth). In NZ I consider Christchurch to be the most similar to Australia and you can see the odd bit of racism there. My Chinese flatmate got abused on the street there and she got told to go home etc, she was quite shocked as she had been in NZ for years and never experienced anything remotely like it.

I'm not sure how Maoris being "a bit blacker" would change anything.