Is this the NORM for England players ?

[Zesh Rehman]

What a complete twat, makes me hate Liverpool even more and all their players and staff and fans.

 

[Digweeds Trousers]

This attitude is an utter disgrace.

WE all love the england cotland banter but this really is appalling - and that stuff about Lucas Neill - what an utter fucktwat

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I don't agree that it is the norm at all. I believe that regardless of how they play, the vast majority of those who play for England play with 100% passion.

I know you don't agree with that, but I think you're wrong.

I really believe that we haven't had a manager since Venables who has sent the team on the field with a plan and system that is right for the players he has.

Keegan admitted he wasn't good enough, Sven was better than many gave him credit for but lost the plot at vital moments, 'Dutch' McLaren was an expert at holding an umbrella but nothing else, and, I agree Capello has been a disappointment.

I don't necessarily agree with your comments about the 'old guard' but in all the recent friendlies Capello had the perfect opportunity to blood the young pretenders. He didn't, so he and we have learned nothing.

So does he now still go with the old guard for his first competitive games or experiment. I simply don't know because either option is a huge gamble.

I do not blame the 'old guard' as such, I blame the direction and decisions from the boss. Let's see what happens next week.

As foe Carragher, I've never liked his attitude but thought he was superb for Liverpool. He was unlucky for England because he had a lot of quality competition at centre-back and was never quite as good as expected in full-back postions. However his anti-England arrogance makes me delighted that he wasn't picked more.

I rarely see ANY passion. At best you get a few players bleating about 'hurting' after a defeat but that is it. Arrogance yes, a strange belief that they will win without putting in the effort yes, passion no.

 

[Easy 10]

I don't agree that it is the norm at all. I believe that regardless of how they play, the vast majority of those who play for England play with 100% passion.

I know you don't agree with that, but I think you're wrong.

I'm merely asking the question, because its an accusation that has been levelled at many of the England players in recent years. Odious though his remarks are, Carragher is at least being HONEST about it, and it does lead you (well, me anyway) to suspect that he's not the only player who harbours these feelings about playing for his country.

In fairness, I've omitted the quotes where he claims he never gave less than 100% when playing for England. But having said that, if he didn't care as much about losing, then subconciously he was probably never really giving it his best. And thats where I reckon we are with several England players who drastically underperform for their country.

I agree with your comments on the managers - none of them have galvanised this crop of players into a proper, balanced team, and Capello is worryingly treading the same old path at the moment.

 

[Simster]

oh dear the jamie carragher autobiography.

When my leg was broken in an horrific tackle by Lucas Neill in September 2003, my mates were ready to hunt him down if I gave the go-ahead.

A few weeks later I received a phone call. "You won't believe this, Jay. We're in the Trafford Centre and Lucas Neill is walking straight towards us. What do you reckon?"

Did I really want Neill to take a crack? "There's only one problem," added the voice. "Little Davey Thommo is with him."

That was that. I could hardly let one of my best mates, David Thompson, now a Blackburn player, become a witness to an assault. Besides he'd have recognised the attackers. The impromptu mission was aborted and I sent a text to Thommo telling him Neill should give him a hug of thanks.

As word got back to Blackburn about the near miss, or should that be hit, their coach Terry Darracott, a Scouser, appealed to one of my friends to call the boys off. I agreed.


It is the cringiest thing you could ever read. Scousers really do have no shame.

What a laughable crock of shit.

Carragher is a bitter twat because he was perhaps unfairly overlooked before the last WC. Then again, maybe Sven simply knew he was total cock knocker and really had decided he wasn't worth the steam off Woodgate's piss.

 

[Knotty]

I rarely see ANY passion. At best you get a few players bleating about 'hurting' after a defeat but that is it. Arrogance yes, a strange belief that they will win without putting in the effort yes, passion no.

But you don't KNOW that. The only person who really knows is the player himself.

You can't equate poor play with lack of passion. I know - I always gave 100% commitment and passion but six games out of ten I was crap, no matter how much effort I put into it.

 

[Mellotron]

Woodgate over Carragher any day.

 

[Mellotron]

Passion does NOT equal good football. We've gone through this time and again.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

But you don't KNOW that. The only person who really knows is the player himself.

You can't equate poor play with lack of passion. I know - I always gave 100% commitment and passion but six games out of ten I was crap, no matter how much effort I put into it.

You can see passion in a player. Good play and passion are not totally related. Passion is about caring and more times than not I can tell if a player cares in the same way I can tell if other people care and have passion and enthusiasm for something. It is one of the easier emotions to detect. I'm not admitting I will always get it right but most people will probably be able to detect passion.

 

[Mellotron]

Berbatov has no passion for anything whatsoever yet is absolute quality. Explain.

 

[Knotty]

I'm merely asking the question, because its an accusation that has been levelled at many of the England players in recent years. Odious though his remarks are, Carragher is at least being HONEST about it, and it does lead you (well, me anyway) to suspect that he's not the only player who harbours these feelings about playing for his country.

In fairness, I've omitted the quotes where he claims he never gave less than 100% when playing for England. But having said that, if he didn't care as much about losing, then subconciously he was probably never really giving it his best. And thats where I reckon we are with several England players who drastically underperform for their country.

I agree with your comments on the managers - none of them have galvanised this crop of players into a proper, balanced team, and Capello is worryingly treading the same old path at the moment.

"..galvanised..into a proper, balanced team.." is the crux of the matter and the enormous problem we have.

Like you, I thought Capello was the one to do it, but we have seen nothing so far to inspire confidence.

Forgetting your anti-Beckham stance and my pro-Beckham in certain circumstances stance, I thought picking Beckham whan we had Defoe and Rooney up front was plain stupid. If Crouch had been up front I could have justified it, but otherwise not.

I also saw the recent friendlies as the perfect opprtunity NOT to pick Beckham and play Bentley from the start. Then we could have seen if he really is the answer to the right-sided midfielder. Unlike some, I have not yet seen anything to convince me of that, but would be delighted if he were.

Similarly we have had so many opportunities to break up the Lampard/Gerrard combination and failed to so.

Let's hope a lot of 'galvanising' goes on before next Wednesday in Zagreb!

 

[Albion Rob]

I thought Carragher packed in the international game because he knobbed John Terry's mum at the World Cup and didn't fancy facing her son at the next England meet.

 

[Knotty]

You can see passion in a player. Good play and passion are not totally related. Passion is about caring and more times than not I can tell if a player cares in the same way I can tell if other people care and have passion and enthusiasm for something. It is one of the easier emotions to detect. I'm not admitting I will always get it right but most people will probably be able to detect passion.

We will have to agree to disagree.

Everyone is different and shows passion, or lack of it, in totally different ways.
Unless you personally know an individual really well, I don't believe that you can possibly tell.

 

[Easy 10]

Berbatov has no passion for anything whatsoever yet is absolute quality. Explain.

My take on it is this. Passion isn't running around like a lunatic, chasing every ball, flying into tackles and then beating your chest and howling to the moon. Some players are more introvert by nature on the pitch, and just quietly get on with the job of doing what they do best. But it doesn't mean they are any less passionate - they just channel their energies differently.

Like Berbatov, Murray isn't outwardly "passionate", but he is still absolute quality (abeit not quiet in Berbatovs class.....yet).

 

[Mellotron]

Agreed Easy.

Although Berbatov is in another planet of nonchalance. He barely smiles when he scores. Like Anelka only worth the money.

 

[Knotty]

My take on it is this. Passion isn't running around like a lunatic, chasing every ball, flying into tackles and then beating your chest and howling to the moon. Some players are more introvert by nature on the pitch, and just quietly get on with the job of doing what they do best. But it doesn't mean they are any less passionate - they just channel their energies differently.

Like Berbatov, Murray isn't outwardly "passionate", but he is still absolute quality (abeit not quiet in Berbatovs class.....yet).

Completely agree.

Scholes is the perfect example - pure class with very little wailing and gnashing of teeth!

 

[Easy 10]

Agreed Easy.

Although Berbatov is in another planet of nonchalance. He barely smiles when he scores. Like Anelka only worth the money.

They just do that to look "cool" though don't they. Thierry Henry was often the same.

"Yez, I just scored ze, ow' you say, phenomeeenal gol. Now you may all go mad and adore me. Yez, like that. Thats eet".

 

[Brovion]

To be fair to Carragher he's not saying anything that Liverpool, Man U or Arsenal fans don't say; i.e. that they don't give a stuff about England and it's club first every time. Blimey there's even some on here who'd rather Brighton got three points against Scunthorpe as opposed to England winning (or even qualifying for) the World Cup.

Admittedly the fact he was found out at international level may have had something to do with it. If he'd been a halfway-decent international player he might have felt differently.

 

[Mellotron]

 

[ATFC Seagull]

all the scouse contingent should go and play for f***ing ireland. just paddies whos great grandads blew the money to new york on drink.

I'd take that hands down.