Iran hangs teenagers for being gay

[London Irish]

While I have no desire to line with right-wing bigots and nutters I also have no desire to sacrifice basic beliefs on human rights and socialist principles on the basis of a fear of such a stance being exploited by our political enemies.

Indeed, and it my socialist beliefs that lead me to smell the bullshit when it comes to Livingstone's critics like the London Community Coalition, whose research you so uncritically quote!

This so-called coalition is an opportunistic alliance of people who hate Muslim clerics for different and often contradictory reasons, eg. some because they are supporters of the Isreali state and therefore hate Qaradawi's support for Palestinian resistance to the Isreali army in occupied territories, some like Tatchell because they believe liberal western standards on gay rights are instantly achievable in the very different political context of the Muslim world, and some are just far-left sectarians who jump on every anti-Ken bandwagon going and have done for the past 20 years.

The Coalition fails to answer the decisive challenge laid down by Livingstone - that if you don't talk to Muslim world moderates like Qaradawi, who do you end up talking to?

The answer, of course, is that you end up talking to no one in the Muslim world - which is precisely, alas, the agenda of the groups behind the London Community Coalition!

And then as socialists, we end up falling behind the same anti-Muslim bandwagons that produce stupid wars of conquest in the Middle East and dead Brazilians in London tube stations. No thanks!

We can influence the Muslim world with our enlightened liberal values by engagement, criticism in context and silencing the Muslimophobes in our own political climate.

 

[London Irish]

I'm an atheist so I would happily put the Pope, Paisley, Bin Laden et al in a small boat and send it to the bottom of the sea.

The point, which I think you partly correctly identify, is not that fundamentalist islam is any more obnoxious than the same brand of any other religion but that anti-racism should not blind us to the fact that it is no less objectionable.

I can't disagree with a word of that, but you also can't ignore the fact that we are also being softened up by our lords and masters to bomb another Muslim country soon, rather than the Vatican City or the Shankhill Road!

It's when this happens, you have to sift through the bullshit double standards being presented and ask just how much western liberals are being "got at" to support these imperialistic adventures by criticism of the cultural backwardness of the targeted nations (a backwardness often created by the west in the first place by their past imperial rule, support for pro-western despots in places like Saudi Arabia, and the likes of the CIA funding fundamentalist groups like the Mujahideen, which morphed into the Taliban).

 

[Dandyman]

I can't disagree with a word of that, but you also can't ignore the fact that we are also being softened up by our lords and masters to bomb another Muslim country soon, rather than the Vatican City or the Shankhill Road!

It's when this happens, you have to sift through the bullshit double standards being presented and ask just how much western liberals are being "got at" to support these imperialistic adventures by criticism of the cultural backwardness of the targeted nations (a backwardness often created by the west in the first place by their past imperial rule, support for pro-western despots in places like Saudi Arabia, and the likes of the CIA funding fundamentalist groups like the Mujahideen, which morphed into the Taliban).

On that I would agree.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Damned gays!

 

[Dandyman]

Damned gays!

You love it, you big ginger mincer.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Are we sure it's not a case of public asphyxiation gone wrong like what happened to matey from INXS?

 

[Dandyman]

Are we sure it's not a case of public asphyxiation gone wrong like what happened to matey from INXS?

Paula Yates reincarnated as an Ayatollah ? Scarey !

 

[looney]

These are appalling acts and a dire warning about the dangers of fundamentalism.

What makes me sad though is when Outrage and Peter Tatchell target moderate Muslim clerics like Yusuf al-Qaradawi when they come to this country at the invitation of Ken Livingstone.

Al-Qaradawi speaks out against the barbarians who carry out these judidicial killings in the name of Islam, yet because he is one of the few attempting to engage with the west in addressing conferences and meetings in this country, our dumb gay rights campaigners have a pop at him

you obviously havn't been paying attention to what Al-Qaradawi has been saying. Yes hes a moderate by islamic standards but I wouldn't want to assosiate with him. Maybe if you did you may stop to consider the dire consequences of Multi-culturalism coupled with mass immigration.

do you actually know any muslims?

 

[looney]

Indeed, and it my socialist beliefs that lead me to smell the bullshit when it comes to Livingstone's critics like the London Community Coalition, whose research you so uncritically quote!

This so-called coalition is an opportunistic alliance of people who hate Muslim clerics for different and often contradictory reasons, eg. some because they are supporters of the Isreali state and therefore hate Qaradawi's support for Palestinian resistance to the Isreali army in occupied territories, some like Tatchell because they believe liberal western standards on gay rights are instantly achievable in the very different political context of the Muslim world, and some are just far-left sectarians who jump on every anti-Ken bandwagon going and have done for the past 20 years.

The Coalition fails to answer the decisive challenge laid down by Livingstone - that if you don't talk to Muslim world moderates like Qaradawi, who do you end up talking to?

The answer, of course, is that you end up talking to no one in the Muslim world - which is precisely, alas, the agenda of the groups behind the London Community Coalition!

And then as socialists, we end up falling behind the same anti-Muslim bandwagons that produce stupid wars of conquest in the Middle East and dead Brazilians in London tube stations. No thanks!

We can influence the Muslim world with our enlightened liberal values by engagement, criticism in context and silencing the Muslimophobes in our own political climate.

christ I should of come to this thread earlier, it stinks of hipocracy.

The Coalition fails to answer the decisive challenge laid down by Livingstone - that if you don't talk to Muslim world moderates like Qaradawi, who do you end up talking to?

The answer, of course, is that you end up talking to no one in the Muslim world - which is precisely, alas, the agenda of the groups behind the London Community Coalition!

so exactly which British patriots/Natioanalists are you prepared to talk to?


We can influence the Muslim world with our enlightened liberal values by engagement, criticism in context and silencing the Muslimophobes in our own political climate

silencing? Hahaha oh how "liberal" of you.

You obviously dont understand the muslim world very much. A hell of a lot see what you see as accomodating as weakness, I see it as weekness to.

Please do tell me if you think I am an islamaphobe and how you intend to silence me?

 

[looney]

Heres another one.................

I can't disagree with a word of that, but you also can't ignore the fact that we are also being softened up by our lords and masters to bomb another Muslim country soon, rather than the Vatican City or the Shankhill Road!

Maybe because the shankill rd and the Vatican haven't just put there Nuclear Programme under the controll of the militant section of the revolutionary guard?

This is Like a duck shoot.

 

[looney]

Maybe because the Vatican and the "Shankill rd" dont refer to the USA and Britain as Big and little Satan, or that they fund international terrorism? Or they shoot hostages in London embassies or shoot wpc's in the street?

 

[Little Piggy]

Maybe because the Vatican and the "Shankill rd" dont refer to the USA and Britain as Big and little Satan

Iran refer to us as "Little Satan"?

Well thats cleared my mind of any doubt. Lets kill every single man woman and child in that country for this despicable act!!!!

Or they shoot hostages in London embassies or shoot wpc's in the street?

That is also disgraceful, shooting people in London Embassies. They should do it on the London Underground, like we do.

 

[looney]

Iran refer to us as "Little Satan"?

Well thats cleared my mind of any doubt. Lets kill every single man woman and child in that country for this despicable act!!!!

No lets just bomb there nuclear programme out of existence so they dont nuke every single man woman and child in israel and possibly us.

That is also disgraceful, shooting people in London Embassies. They should do it on the London Underground, like we do.


Yea right and lets tie a few poofs to the tracks while were at it.

 

[London Irish]

you obviously havn't been paying attention to what Al-Qaradawi has been saying. Yes hes a moderate by islamic standards but I wouldn't want to assosiate with him. Maybe if you did you may stop to consider the dire consequences of Multi-culturalism coupled with mass immigration.

do you actually know any muslims?

Do you actually know anyone?

 

[London Irish]

christ I should of come to this thread earlier, it stinks of hipocracy.

The Coalition fails to answer the decisive challenge laid down by Livingstone - that if you don't talk to Muslim world moderates like Qaradawi, who do you end up talking to?

The answer, of course, is that you end up talking to no one in the Muslim world - which is precisely, alas, the agenda of the groups behind the London Community Coalition!

so exactly which British patriots/Natioanalists are you prepared to talk to?


We can influence the Muslim world with our enlightened liberal values by engagement, criticism in context and silencing the Muslimophobes in our own political climate

silencing? Hahaha oh how "liberal" of you.

You obviously dont understand the muslim world very much. A hell of a lot see what you see as accomodating as weakness, I see it as weekness to.

Please do tell me if you think I am an islamaphobe and how you intend to silence me?

Now why would I want to silence your comedy routine? You're not a real British patriot/Nationalist. You're not a real Islamaphobe. In fact, you're not a real "anything" as far as I can make out. You're an utterly inert and harmless attention-seeker who occasionally cracks a good joke, carry on old chap

 

[looney]

Do you actually know anyone?

Oh more than your narrow mind can comprehend.

 

[perseus]

Message deleted

 

[fatboy]

Wearing pink - pushed down the stairs on a double decker.

 

[looney]

I would love to continue with your pointless jibber jabber but seeing ive entered a flaming tournament I'll be to busy to bust your brows.

I'll be back bragging when ive won it.

 

[On the Left Wing]

I would love to continue with your pointless jibber jabber but seeing ive entered a flaming tournament I'll be to busy to bust your brows.

I'll be back bragging when ive won it.

Looney ... are you a closet Gay? Because for some reason this thread has irked you beyond even your demented reason.

We are talking about fellow human beings, who walk the same planet and breath the same air and have the same rights as every single one of us.

I lost a very dear friend (Andy) who committed suicide in his car, on the South Downs near Ditchling, some 26 years ago because of this SAME biggotry ... I don't get angry often, but this is beyond belief