Important: Reporting homophobic chanting

[Brixton Seagull 2]

How anyone can get upset about the homo chants is beyond me. I've been going for 30 years and we've always had it. It's never bothered me at any point. We sing sheep shagging stuff at Baaadiff and Brizzle, so what.
I was at Luton a couple of years back and our fans were singing "1-0 to the Taliban" and some other pretty racist stuff throughout the game. Now THAT was something you could report to Kick It out, a few people saying we are gay 'coz we're from Brighton is nothing. If we make a big fuss about it, then people will do it even more as they'll know it winds us up.

 

[e77]

I think that is the reality of the situation.

What has changed in the last couple of weeks, why is this an issue now when its been going on since I've been going to football (mid eighties)...and probably before?

The Bellamy incident (or more exactly the lack of a Bellamy incident)?

 

[e77]

I don't think anyone is suggesting mass throwing outs. I think the first stage is to gain acknowledgement that the chants are offensive to some.

 

[Brighton Breezy]

Only if you choose to be offended by it. Which alot of people on this thread have. A lot of people have decided they want to find this chant offensive, whether they actually do or not isn't really the point anymore.

I don't get upset by it, but still recognise it is homophobic. Whether people are offended by it or not does not change the intent, which is to poke fun at Brighton fans because of the city's homosexual population.

 

[sydney]

How anyone can get upset about the homo chants is beyond me. I've been going for 30 years and we've always had it. It's never bothered me at any point. We sing sheep shagging stuff at Baaadiff and Brizzle, so what.
I was at Luton a couple of years back and our fans were singing "1-0 to the Taliban" and some other pretty racist stuff throughout the game. Now THAT was something you could report to Kick It out, a few people saying we are gay 'coz we're from Brighton is nothing. If we make a big fuss about it, then people will do it even more as they'll know it winds us up.

f***ing hell ........nail head the on.

 

[Tooting Gull]

I suppose it was inevitable this season. We are playing bigger teams with bigger support, many of whom haven't played us for a while, and certainly not on any kind of level footing.

As far as this specific thread goes though, it either is an issue, or it isn't. How much time people or the club spend investigating it is irrelevant if it is an issue that needs dealing with.

I used to think the singing was fairly harmless, but my view has probably changed a bit. If you want a society without prejudice, then maybe this and kids all using the word 'gay' as meaning something bad at school is part of it.

If the away fans had been singing 'You're just a town full of P***s' at Leicester or Bradford, everyone would be taking it much more seriously, difficult as it is to stop mass chanting.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

I don't get upset by it, but still recognise it is homophobic. Whether people are offended by it or not does not change the intent, which is to poke fun at Brighton fans because of the city's homosexual population.

Poking fun at the city isn't homophobic though, is it? It depends on what you classify as being over the line.

Our fans like to dish out a lot of abuse to just about every opponent we face (except Doncaster), but when teams sing does your boyfriend know you're here, we're offended? But only now! Only now is it offensive. Last season, season before, 5 years ago, etc, nothing. Just ironic applause and the occaisonal retort "you're too ugly to be gay", but now we're offended? Come on, it's nothing. If you want to find it offensive, feel free. And if you want to join the real world at some point, feel free to do that aswell.

 

[Insider]

Each incident of chanting needs to be treated individually. With regard to name calling (some may call it banter) - albeit with obvious homophobic undertones - it is difficult to prove. Yes, we all know what is meant by it, but it would be very difficult to eject, arrest or prosecute those singing those type of songs. We don't want it in the stadium, but equally it is difficult to tackle.

However, some of the more graphic, vile and abusive chants the club and police can act upon, there are no grey areas with the more explicit chants, and any supporter who has an issue with this would be strongly advised to report it direct to the club. This type of behaviour is not tolerated by the club, and we do not want it at the Amex, but it isn't easy to deal with. Firstly we have to prove it, and be 100 per cent certain of the culprits before acting. Working with the club, Sussex Police have managed to successfully prosecute fans of two clubs (two Norwich fans at Withdean, and a home fan when Albion last played at Hull City) but it isn't easy. Portsmouth also acted against Spurs fans who subjected Sol Campbell to homophobic abuse at Fratton Park, using video evidence.

The fans must work with us on this, and report incidents of abuse (homophobic, racist or otherwise) to a steward or to the club, providing as much details as possible. What doesn't help us is by reporting it to the media, before the club has had a chance to fully investigate. We all know the good name of the club and Albion supporters was recently dragged through the mud by the press for alleged racist abuse of Craig Bellamy, before the club had a chance to respond to the allegations. Once the investigation was completed it was found the TV viewer had heard nothing more than the innocent chant of "Seasiders".

Brighton and Hove Albion | News | Latest News | Latest News | Albion Praised by Kick It Out

The best way forward is to be proactive, to attempt to educate fans, and Albion are working closely with Kick It Out and the Justin Campaign (along with other football bodies) on how is the best way to tackle homophobia - and time would be better spent this way, than reacting to the media. One other important thing to remember the fight against racism has been going much longer, and the KIO campaign is at a more advanced stage, because over time fans have been educated. It might take even longer with homophobia, as the victims of the offensive chanting are not as obvious as those players who were regularly subjected to racist abuse in the 1980s.

 

[Brovion]

Oh please. Of COURSE it is homophobic.

No it isn't. Not necessarily. This is why homophobic abuse isn't the same as racist abuse. Making monkey noises or calling people black ***** is always racist, whether it happens in the street or at a football ground. Singing/saying "we can see you holding hands" or "does your boyfriend know you're here" does not always have homophobic connotations, how can it? In the context of a Brighton game (for people who know we've traditionally been seen as the 'gay' team) it is probably is of course, but how do you prove it? Someone accused of homophobic chanting might say "well I'd never seen Brighton play before, I didn't know about the gay thing and I saw this attractive girl and wondered if she had a boyfriend and if so was he with her?" Even the more graphic descriptions of sexual acts can be deemed to be merely offending people's sense of decency as opposed to being specifically homophobic.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not condoning the chants, especially the more graphic ones, (although I am more in the 'just banter' camp), but at the moment 'proving' they're homophobic chants will be difficult when the evidence is purely circumstantial. 'Twill be a minefield I tells ya.

 

[HAILSHAM SEAGULL]

Ideally I would prefer that homophobia is dealt with indigenously, rather than having punishment imposed, and humour is one way - if not the best way - to dissipate it. It might be considered banter by some, but it is clearly intended to be insulting. The fact that it's not necessarily taken as an insult by the recipient means half the battle is won, so answering back with humour (we're gay, but you're f***ing pig ugly) leaves them with nowhere to go. Ultimately, it dies its own death.

From there, you can then weed out the knuckleheads who would individually continue to scream this abuse on a one-to-one basis.

Exactly this.
All the time we retort with your too ugly to be gay, your a load of pikeys etc etc, then we are as bad as the original chanters.
If your so upset by the chanting, dont go, the choice is yours.
By raising this issue, and now its going on the BBC and probably the National Press we are just making ourselves a laughing stock.

 

[Deleted User X18H]

Its just people who seem to thrive on being offended.Its already causing the club some problems and causing certain people not to be able to effectivly get on with their every day jobs . Just a perhaps but if you don't like what opposing fans chant or think it's insulting then maybe you have just chosen the wrong pastime. Football chants intentionally insulting? Well I never. Sticks and stones anyone?

 

[Brighton Breezy]

So far from being bothered about extra officer hours being taken up, the club actually WANTS people to report homophobic chanting?

What was the point of this thread then?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

However, some of the more graphic, vile and abusive chants the club and police can act upon, there are no grey areas with the more explicit chants, and any supporter who has an issue with this would be strongly advised to report it direct to the club. This type of behaviour is not tolerated by the club, and we do not want it at the Amex, but it isn't easy to deal with. Firstly we have to prove it, and be 100 per cent certain of the culprits before acting. Working with the club, Sussex Police have managed to successfully prosecute fans of two clubs (two Norwich fans at Withdean, and a home fan when Albion last played at Hull City) but it isn't easy. Portsmouth also acted against Spurs fans who subjected Sol Campbell to homophobic abuse at Fratton Park, using video evidence.

I think this is worth repeating. It shows what can be done instead of wringing our hands or saying 'It doesn't affect me'

 

[Tooting Gull]

Working with the club, Sussex Police have managed to successfully prosecute fans of two clubs (two Norwich fans at Withdean, .

Norwich have got some front, at least our gay population aren't shagging their family.

Out of interest, I wonder if action might be more forthcoming it was the players directly targeted? If our players were regularly subjected to vile homophobic abuse every time they went to take a throw-in or corner (and I can see this happeneing at some places), would more action be taken?

 

[Bozza]

So far from being bothered about extra officer hours being taken up, the club actually WANTS people to report homophobic chanting?

What was the point of this thread then?

Is that really how you interpret mine and Insider's posts? Bless you Richie.

 

[Tory Boy]

There is no excuse for homophobic chants.

If the club are concerned about the manpower it takes to sort it then f***ing tough.

It needs to be dealt with now.

TB

 

[doogie004]

these do gooders will be happy when we are sitting on our hands at games with no atmosphere when that day comes im off bring on watford [we're going to nick youre sweets and lolli pops ]

 

[Superphil]

Faced with that, it is simply not practical to exercise any sort of eviction exercise. Additionally as soon as the first person or two is thrown out, the away end could become a fans v stewards/police warzone.

Bloke got thrown out for swearing and drunkedness at Birmingham, he wasn't the only one swearing, or being drunk, but he was singled out and thrown out. Happens at grounds all over the country, it happens at the Amex, we've had a number of 'victims' on here telling us how they were singled out and chicked out. If you throw out a few of these fans, the word will probably get about, and it could help to reduce or eradicate the problem. On the other hand, if they don't do anything about it, then the story will run and run.

Personally, I don't get offended by the chanting in the ground, some of the aggressive staff after games I view differently. If you are being physically threatened, or language is being used to upset or scare women & children, even sensible grown ups, then that should be dealt with.

 

[public school boy]

It's all getting very pretentious in this thread. "Does your boyfiend know you're here" is probably the softest example of homophobia we'll ever come across. It's nothing. Why is there such a need to get all serious and precious about it all of sudden? What's changed? Is it because of that idiot who posted the "I've been banned for calling Bellamy a sheep-shagger"?

If the away fans were shouting, "f*** off you gay pricks", then yes, complain. Does your boyfriend know you're here is banter. Simple as that. Sheep-shaggers (lalala) is banter. Oi, Anton, you black **** is out of order and rightly being investigated. There is a world of difference. Complaining about something like the boyfriend chant trivialises homophobia in my opinion.

Very controversial subject for debate on this forum though, I hope the coppers aren't following. Be careful...

So why get upset if someone calls you A GAY PRICK? If a person is so easily offended it might be time to seek help.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Its just people who seem to thrive on being offended.Its already causing the club some problems and causing certain people not to be able to effectivly get on with their every day jobs . Just a perhaps but if you don't like what opposing fans chant or think it's insulting then maybe you have just chosen the wrong pastime. Football chants intentionally insulting? Well I never. Sticks and stones anyone?

Absolutely, unnoquivically(sp) correct. One hundred per cent, spot, bloody on!

The whole JCL thing has been a bit of a laugh really, but are some of our our newer fans behind these complaints? If so, go back to whatever it was that you used to do on a Saturday afternoon/Monday evening/Friday evening/Sunday afternoon/Tuesday evening.

HB&B, well said!