I sometimes despair with the people who follow this club

[NMH]

Before anyone points out that they are paying for the privilege to support BHAFC, I'll just mention - so does Knight. If there is not some faith earned after 10 years of struggle, then I despair at some people, I really do.

 

[BigGully]

All very well, but at what point in DK's tenure has the criticism (aka your "debate about his actions", which is 99% negative!) EVER stopped??
He probably got a few weeks of respite after wresting the club from the scum (if that - he was likely accused of being 'in with' them at the beginning!), and the CLOSER he has got to reaching a HIGHLY DESERVED plateau of calm and quiet, the LOUDER and more obnoxious the barracking and interrogations have been!!

The club is UNIFIED in all wanting the same thing;- SUCCESS FOR BRIGHTON AND HOVE ALBION!!
So WHY should ANY of the staff for this club actually be happy with poor performances, poor returns, malcontented players (especially the likes we have just had!) or anyone that might undermine or deviate The Albion from the course?

If you want to defeat someone, the mantra is "DIVIDE AND CONQUER". So the divisiveness that Dick Knight does not need to endure, or be beaten down by - I hope and pray he continues to work through and past.
ENOUGH of the anti sentiment.
Blind-allegiance isn't even close for anyone around The Albion, in fact I imagine Dick Knight would laugh ironically at the thought!
You want a league football club in Brighton City? SUPPORT!

Sorry, a little self indugent by you ......... found it difficult to follow your words.

What is your view on not negotiating a deal with the key players, including Hammond, DK meddling in indentifying players and any likely financial windfall from the FA Cup and Play Off efforts, his bizaare rant of HIS 5 new players by last Saturday and going to the press to slag off the team that played at Millwall ...... I think these were my points ........but you went all Shakespear on me...!!

 

[brighton bluenose]

You have made you're own personal thoughts which is respected.The thing is im not grateful like you are as i want ambition and funds to move the club forward.Im also not someone who keeps looking back to the grim old days like yourself and being grateful to have a club.Point is we have been a laughing stock for far to many years now.

Also if anyone has saved the club its the fansthe fans who pay £25 a game year after year to sit in a sess pit,time to move on pal and show some ambition as this past crap just keeps rolling on

While this club struggles dozens of clubs overtake us and build new stadia,you are not ambitious obviously but most of us are.If the board bankrolled us i would worship them,but thats not the case as its all bank loans etc.

So building a new 22000 seater £50 million stadium isnt ambitious?

Get fvcking real!!

 

[BigGully]

So building a new 22000 seater £50 million stadium isnt ambitious?

Get fvcking real!!

We are all releived at the new stadium, but why should that stop people looking at the current situation.

I think some of the football played this year has been decent and I really thought that we might have a chance at the play offs's.

Irrispective what you feel about O'Callaghans outburst he was a class act at this level, as is Hammond and Savage with all his limitations was a great foil for Forster. Richards got better and with some further additions we were really looking at going forward.

Now if we havent got the money we havent got the money, however it seems we have got some funds available and Knight chose not to use them on the current players and it seems that Wilkins has now got to pull further rabbits out the hat.

This isnt blind ambition its a missed opportunity.

 

[Knotty]

You have made you're own personal thoughts which is respected.The thing is im not grateful like you are as i want ambition and funds to move the club forward.Im also not someone who keeps looking back to the grim old days like yourself and being grateful to have a club.Point is we have been a laughing stock for far to many years now.

Also if anyone has saved the club its the fansthe fans who pay £25 a game year after year to sit in a sess pit,time to move on pal and show some ambition as this past crap just keeps rolling on

While this club struggles dozens of clubs overtake us and build new stadia,you are not ambitious obviously but most of us are.If the board bankrolled us i would worship them,but thats not the case as its all bank loans etc.

Without DK'S past there would be no present or future. I know you don't like to acknowledge it but it is true and we should always be grateful because without him we would have no club.

We shouldn't, of course, simply dwell on the past but we should not ignore it either. You seem to think it is irrelevant.

With whom exactly are we a laughing stock?

Are you sure that the directors and shareholders have put nothing into the club, and that it is all bank loans?

You are entitled to your point of view but, like so many your views cannot be respected unless you back them up with facts. Please come up with the hard facts.

I am relieved to see that DT's views are supported by the majority. It is commonsense and an intelligent, realistic appraisal of the situation. Sorry if it deosn't suit your agenda.

 

[Digweeds Trousers]

A couple of quick responses- yes this is the same Digweeds Trousers who has been working in the US over the last couple of years - who has flown back several times to arrange family visits to co-incide with watching the Seagulls.

The issue I raised about the 5k per week pay demands - that is - according to the PFA - the average wage in Championship sides who have gained promotion in the last 5 years - I did not state that they were demands - it is the minimum we would have to play to get players in.

And of course if we didn't get stacks of new faces then it would be a missed opportunity. Yes DK is not perfect - there have been mistakes - but I'll take that on the chin - and so the hell would you ten years ago.

Yes we should judge DK now - and on what he is doing - but the simple bloody fact is nearly everything he is slagged fo is around signing of players and offering certain individuals any contract to get them to stay.

I remember 3 years ago seeing a slanging match on here about Luton - 'how come they can afford to pay so and so that money - how come they can beat us to signing players.

For Gods sake how can they sign Currie and we can't?

Well you have your answer now - pay today, everyone have a great season, nearly go up, have some great new faces and then.........pay the real price for poor business acumen, failure to forecast and budget accurately to the resources and csah flow that you can bank on in the coming years.

God help some of the people on here if they ever run a business - you'll go pop in 6 months.

Again simple maths - no cash = doing everything on the cheap. Forecasting the Falmer costs, the cash-flow of the business during the fund raising and though the build itself. That takes precedence over everything- otherwise we will have the same bloody argument for the next 5 years until the club folds - no falmer no future.

everything that is speculated on here about how much cash etc is available for players is just that - speculation.

He has taken this club to the brink of a new future - once we are at Falmer and the club becomes a viable, attractive and sustainable investment option - THEN do these sorts of debates begin to have some gravitas.

If there is investment in the club and no activity or aim in improving the squad then you can understandably air some of the views that have been broadcsat on here with some credibility.

Until then we are a tin pot club who sohuld be at the bottomn of League Two struggling just to survive until we get to Falmer.

 

[NMH]

Sorry, a little self indugent by you ......... found it difficult to follow your words.

What is your view on not negotiating a deal with the key players, including Hammond, DK meddling in indentifying players and any likely financial windfall from the FA Cup and Play Off efforts, his bizaare rant of HIS 5 new players by last Saturday and going to the press to slag off the team that played at Millwall ...... I think these were my points ........but you went all Shakespear on me...!!

I don't know why you thought it was 'Shakespeare', but I suppose some do come to stick the knife in, and if you make me out to be a Marc Antony just for railing against that, then that's the way it is I spose.
I don't want to praise Knight or bury him - but Brighton fans could display a bit more FAITH (does that make me George Michael now??).

To address those points - do you think that DK avoids or refuses to make normal negotiations with players and staff? Why would he, unless he decided the agents or players were not asking for reasonable things, or that the club cannot afford the amounts they ask for. I imagine that 'negotiations' DO involve TWO parties?? Him and the club, being one of the parties? Is he not entitled to 'negotiate' his side of the bargain? Or is one loanee who didn't get what he demanded (who wanted too much in the first place!) to be sided with automatically?

If he slags off the team, or the staff - do you not imagine that he has a right then?
He's a football fan as well as a club chairman - it's not a NEW thing for chairmen to say they expect more of the players.... and apparently some don't mind saying they want more out of him?

What he wants for the club, and what he gets, may be different things - and I agree that making surefire promises about new players coming in can be premature when stated before any contracts are signed. People seem to ask for such promises, but however they are worded, if they're not cast in stone - then they're premature. Ask Newcastle fans what they think about prematurity! (think; Harry Redknapp, and how that got out before anything was negotiated!! )

You think this club is badly run, that the chairman has lost the plot?
What alternative do you see, what predictions would you prefer a chairman to make and how would you word them?

DK isn't perfect, but he wasn't a 'tried and tested' football chairman before taking the reins at BHA .... and what would a seasoned chairman have done? Walked away by now, do I hear anyone say?? Well I'll say it then; Most chairman would NOT have taken the job on, and ...... NONE would have stayed the course!

I have faith in that - NONE would have stayed.

How about some invest a little faith in the only one who would, and did.

:albion1:

 

[The Large One]

It damaged morale and I assume has posed real problems for the coaching staff.

Quite. So much so that the team, after going down to 10 men after 10 minutes and 1-0 down after 40 minutes, completely gave up the fight, didn't bother trying because of the morale that had been zapped out of them, somehow mossied a flukey equaliser that no-one could raise themselves to celebrate, and trooped off the pitch quietly with their heads bowed to a wake-like atmosphere in the dressing-room at Boundary Park.

Oh, hang on...

 

[The Large One]

BTW I would like to hereby strongly associate myself with the comments mae in the original post by Digweed's Trousers.

 

[BigGully]

A couple of quick responses- yes this is the same Digweeds Trousers who has been working in the US over the last couple of years - who has flown back several times to arrange family visits to co-incide with watching the Seagulls.

The issue I raised about the 5k per week pay demands - that is - according to the PFA - the average wage in Championship sides who have gained promotion in the last 5 years - I did not state that they were demands - it is the minimum we would have to play to get players in.

And of course if we didn't get stacks of new faces then it would be a missed opportunity. Yes DK is not perfect - there have been mistakes - but I'll take that on the chin - and so the hell would you ten years ago.

Yes we should judge DK now - and on what he is doing - but the simple bloody fact is nearly everything he is slagged fo is around signing of players and offering certain individuals any contract to get them to stay.


I remember 3 years ago seeing a slanging match on here about Luton - 'how come they can afford to pay so and so that money - how come they can beat us to signing players.

For Gods sake how can they sign Currie and we can't?

Well you have your answer now - pay today, everyone have a great season, nearly go up, have some great new faces and then.........pay the real price for poor business acumen, failure to forecast and budget accurately to the resources and csah flow that you can bank on in the coming years.

God help some of the people on here if they ever run a business - you'll go pop in 6 months.

Again simple maths - no cash = doing everything on the cheap. Forecasting the Falmer costs, the cash-flow of the business during the fund raising and though the build itself. That takes precedence over everything- otherwise we will have the same bloody argument for the next 5 years until the club folds - no falmer no future.

everything that is speculated on here about how much cash etc is available for players is just that - speculation.

He has taken this club to the brink of a new future - once we are at Falmer and the club becomes a viable, attractive and sustainable investment option - THEN do these sorts of debates begin to have some gravitas.

If there is investment in the club and no activity or aim in improving the squad then you can understandably air some of the views that have been broadcsat on here with some credibility.

Until then we are a tin pot club who sohuld be at the bottomn of League Two struggling just to survive until we get to Falmer.

Far point, however ................

I am concentrating on the past months situation, I will agree and acknowledge DK positive role in Albions recent past.

Now irrespective of opinions if the club do not have any funds available then end of debate, although I somehow feel that might ignite another debate on how we might try to attract new investment, but thats for another day

My frustration is this ..... To secure the key players that have recently left might of increased expenditure by £50,000 extra to the club over an 18 month period. ( we can play around with that figure if you like )

Now the decision is this do you see that as a liability or an investment ?

My argument is this and I guess was Wilkins too.

Is it reasonable to argue that we would of beaten Mansfied £40,000, another draw would of given another significant revenue stream and keep us in contention for the play offs with more income, plus the club moving forward ?

DK decision not to negotiate, in part, left us without these rewards.

Any business healthy or ailing need to continue making critical decisions.

I think he got this call totally wrong.

 

[The Large One]

Far point, however ................

I am concentrating on the past months situation, I will agree and acknowledge DK positive role in Albions recent past.

Now irrespective of opinions if the club do not have any funds available then end of debate, although I somehow feel that might ignite another debate on how we might try to attract new investment, but thats for another day

My frustration is this ..... To secure the key players that have recently left might of increased expenditure by £50,000 extra to the club over an 18 month period. ( we can play around with that figure if you like )

Now the decision is this do you see that as a liability or an investment ?

My argument is this and I guess was Wilkins too.

Is it reasonable to argue that we would of beaten Mansfied £40,000, another draw would of given another significant revenue stream and keep us in contention for the play offs with more income, plus the club moving forward ?

DK decision not to negotiate, in part, left us without these rewards.

Any business healthy or ailing need to continue making critical decisions.

I think he got this call totally wrong.

If you mean that securing Bas on the wages he was after (whatever they were) together with whatever money was required to acquire O'Callaghan as well would cost us an extra £50,000 - that's one thing.

But what that doesn't account for is that many other players would then demand salaries to match Bas', and, to be honest, there will be many who would have a better claim than Bas to an increased wage to match Bas' level. So that £50,000 extra you're talking about to secure the services of a couple of players, will be multiplied manyfold to account for these immediate wage demands.

It then sets a precedent for the wage structure at this club - one which the club would not be able to afford on account of the '60% of turnover' rule.

 

[BigGully]

Quite. So much so that the team, after going down to 10 men after 10 minutes and 1-0 down after 40 minutes, completely gave up the fight, didn't bother trying because of the morale that had been zapped out of them, somehow mossied a flukey equaliser that no-one could raise themselves to celebrate, and trooped off the pitch quietly with their heads bowed to a wake-like atmosphere in the dressing-room at Boundary Park.

Oh, hang on...

I am as pleased as any and I am sure that Wilkins has put a lot of work in to try and keep morale as high as possible, and a well earned draw is the best way to get morale within a group.

But I guess I could bullet point the Millwall display to use that as evidence of the 'damaged morale' theory too, so we are going nowhere on that one.

I can't remember you offering your views on my main points, though.

 

[Knotty]

Far point, however ................

I am concentrating on the past months situation, I will agree and acknowledge DK positive role in Albions recent past.

Now irrespective of opinions if the club do not have any funds available then end of debate, although I somehow feel that might ignite another debate on how we might try to attract new investment, but thats for another day

My frustration is this ..... To secure the key players that have recently left might of increased expenditure by £50,000 extra to the club over an 18 month period. ( we can play around with that figure if you like )

Now the decision is this do you see that as a liability or an investment ?

My argument is this and I guess was Wilkins too.

Is it reasonable to argue that we would of beaten Mansfied £40,000, another draw would of given another significant revenue stream and keep us in contention for the play offs with more income, plus the club moving forward ?

DK decision not to negotiate, in part, left us without these rewards.

Any business healthy or ailing need to continue making critical decisions.

I think he got this call totally wrong.

You are guessing on how much was involved.

You are guessing that with those players we would have beaten Mansfield. (Everton supporters guessed that they would beat Oldham at Goodison.)

You are guessing that with those players we would have made the play-offs.

Guessing is a very poor basis on which to run a business - see Digweed's Trousers comments about Luton.

We do not know the sums involved and without that knowledge, your assumptions are based on pure guesswork and therefore lack any credibility. Without the hard evidence your 'criminal, cannot be found guilty.

 

[BigGully]

If you mean that securing Bas on the wages he was after (whatever they were) together with whatever money was required to acquire O'Callaghan as well would cost sau £50,000 - that's one thing.

But what that doesn't account for is that many other players would then demand salaries to match Bas', and, to be honest, there will be many who would have a better claim than Bas to an increased wage to match Bas' level. So that £50,000 extra you're talking about to secure the services of a couple of players, will be multiplied manyfold to account for these immediate wage demands.

It then sets a precedent for the wage structure at this club - one which the club would not be able to afford on account of the '60% of turnover' rule.

I dont agree.

I dont think this will effect other wage demands, Hammond already expects a decent deal due to his demand with other clubs.

Most other players deals or not up yet and others are just happy to be in the team.

Who exactly would start demanding these high wages ?

Outside a few experienced players most are young kids that are first or second year pro's.

This I suspect is why Savage's demand would put him amongst the clubs top earners.

 

[The Large One]

I dont agree.

I dont think this will effect other wage demands, Hammond already expects a decent deal due to his demand with other clubs.

Most other players deals or not up yet and others are just happy to be in the team.

Who exactly would start demanding these high wages ?

Outside a few experienced players most are young kids that are first or second year pro's.

This I suspect is why Savage's demand would put him amongst the clubs top earners.

It's not a case of whether you agree - Dick says it happens, and has happened constantly throughout his tenure. And I'm sure it happens at every club. Unless you're going to say that you don't agree with what Dick says happens in his own office.

Nineteen of the playing squad's contract are up at the end of this season. If Bas' wage demands had been met, it would have set the bar for other players to make the same demands. And that doesn't include the outrageous claims that agents make for themselves in securing a contract extension/renewal for their client.

 

[BigGully]

You are guessing on how much was involved.

You are guessing that with those players we would have beaten Mansfield. (Everton supporters guessed that they would beat Oldham at Goodison.)

You are guessing that with those players we would have made the play-offs.

Guessing is a very poor basis on which to run a business - see Digweed's Trousers comments about Luton.

We do not know the sums involved and without that knowledge, your assumptions are based on pure guesswork and therefore lack any credibility. Without the hard evidence your 'criminal, cannot be found guilty.

Unfortunately Knotty guessing as you call it is the very foundation of business, wish it wasnt but I am afraid it is.

You try and and do your research and try and make considered judgements and draw on your many experiences ...... but yeah its a guess most of the time !!

Making judgements on future footballing success is of course a judgement call.

Whats your guess .... do you think we might of beaten Mansfield with a full squad of players ? do you think we would of improved our chances of the Play Off's ?

Who knows, I say a definate yes.

But one thing that is not a guess ...... if we were succesful on both counts we would of got a significant return on any investment.

And that is GOOD business.

 

[Digweeds Trousers]

Fair play Big gully - you are one of the few that has persistently offered a different opinion without resorting to insults which makes a change - and I accpet you have some very fair points.

However - the reason we have to agree to disagree is that in my opinion you can only budget for situations that you can control - I realise ones future as a business is dictated to by market fluctuations and that is unavoidable - but your job as a board is to minimize the risks that you percieve in the coming years that will potentially effect your business either positively or adversley.

We do not know know for FACT how the funding of the stadium needs to be controlled and executed upon - we can guess and have a relevant opinion based on what other clubs have done - but that is what it is - guess work.

Players now to get us promoted are not as important as having a controlled - yes small - but controlled and forecastable revenue stream in the coming five years which is going to give banks and investors a far more comfortable feeling about us as a long term propect as opposed to saying - yeah i know we've spunked all the csah we had - but we kep Baz Savage and signed Currie nealry made the play offs!

the board is therefore left - as most SME businesses are in todays financial climate of making difficult choices - players or revenue protection - and with the goals and objectives the club has a whole there is in my opinion only one sensible choice they can make - and they are making it.

You have to remember that that revenue stream and forecastable cash flow is actually being supported and supplemented by the board!!!!!!!

Which I personally think it is good news.

 

[BigGully]

It's not a case of whether you agree - Dick says it happens, and has happened constantly throughout his tenure. And I'm sure it happens at every club. Unless you're going to say that you don't agree with what Dick says happens in his own office.

Nineteen of the playing squad's contract are up at the end of this season. If Bas' wage demands had been met, it would have set the bar for other players to make the same demands. And that doesn't include the outrageous claims that agents make for themselves in securing a contract extension/renewal for their client.

Next your going to be telling me to take Dick's word for it

Its just not right to now say that any increase in Savages, O'Callaghan's and Hammonds contracts would start a stream of disgruntled players demanding higher wages.

The dynamics at Brighton are totally different than most club's.

Most are young pro's just happy to be there, trying to make their way in the game.

Hopefully they will succeed some wont, but they aint at the point of expecting parity with the more experienced players, no way.

 

[WATFORD zero]

It never ceases to amaze me that with all these brilliant business geniuses on NSC, not one of them has had sufficient success in business to actually leave their keyboards and make Dick an offer

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

I dont agree.

I dont think this will effect other wage demands, Hammond already expects a decent deal due to his demand with other clubs.

Most other players deals or not up yet and others are just happy to be in the team.

Who exactly would start demanding these high wages ?

Outside a few experienced players most are young kids that are first or second year pro's.

This I suspect is why Savage's demand would put him amongst the clubs top earners.

At the end of the day, it's the boards money, not your's or mine. If they decide that it doesn't fit the business plan then they don't spend it. If you don't like it get your money out and take over the club. Very simplistic I know, but it's their money and providing they aren't doing anything illegal or trying to put the club out of business they can do what they want.

Tough f**king s**t, the life of an Albion fan is always entertaining.