I had a ticket, I didn't go and I didn't miss it [MERGED THREADS]

[cjd]

Are there any stats re; exactly how many of the tickets are actually used on an average match day...?

 

[Superphil]

Maybe I misunderstood, so to get this straight, your suggestion to boost attendence is:
1) Two types of match and season ticket for each area of the ground for the ticket office and on-line system to manage - ie one with travel vouchers attached and one without, for B&H residents only? I've no idea of the number of B&H residents attend but lets just say it's 60% of an average 6,000 gate, ie 3,600 people currently get to Withdean but foot, public transport or sensual Kiss & Ride from within B&H?
2) £3 off for everyone with a B&H postcode.
3) Therefore probably £4.50 more on the ticket price for each non-Brighton resident to pay for the transport element shortfall (or where will this come from?) - so my usual two adult tickets will now cost £60 online?
4) Possibly extra stewarding and consequent delay at point of entry to the P&R's to ensure that only travel voucher holders gain entry?
5) No additional service buses from and to central Brighton after the game?

Steady on, re application of this idea, no travel permit, no travel, so that one is sorted. As for Park and Ride, you have to give up your travel permit when you get on the bus at the park and ride, no permit, no ride, end of.

And as for additional delay at the Park & Ride, there couldn't be any more additional delay than there already is, you would have thought by now they would have worked out how to manage people on and off buses.

As for the rest of us paying more, why, the travel permit is there to pay for travel, if those people are not using it, then it won't make any difference to what we pay. (if it does then it proves the club have not been totally honest about the travle permit scheme up until now)

I think THPP may have a proper and valid idea here.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

Are there any stats re; exactly how many of the tickets are actually used on an average match day...?

I've never seen any and am not sure such info would be particularly useful. Unless the transport 'scheme' costs can be reduced then any changes such as THPP has proposed should be 'cost neutral' to the club (at worst)? Regardless of whether the current 'transport element' in each ticket is actually spent on the transport or some goes to the club, then any reduction in this income will just increase the Albion's losses.

 

[SICKASAGULL]

Thanks Dr.Bandler,Storer68 & larus,It needed saying and should be repeated over and over until things are changed.This means a new board,we have tried changing managers and players and at long last people are beginning to realise that this is now the only option.Unless this action is taken if Falmer does become a fact it is just as likely that we will be non-league by then.
Who will take us over?the same types who are interested in Q.P.R. and Southampton it just needs an open invitation from the present board.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

Steady on, re application of this idea, no travel permit, no travel, so that one is sorted. As for Park and Ride, you have to give up your travel permit when you get on the bus at the park and ride, no permit, no ride, end of.

And as for additional delay at the Park & Ride, there couldn't be any more additional delay than there already is, you would have thought by now they would have worked out how to manage people on and off buses.

It's not a question of policing people getting on or off the buses. You can walk from the Mill Road P&R to the Withdean through Westdene as some people do regularly and we have done on occasions. At present, everyone has a travel voucher so no problem, but with THPP's idea you could have people doing this who do not have a voucher so I envisaged that the club might want to check vouchers at the point of entry to the P&R. Then they'd be a delay.

As for the rest of us paying more, why, the travel permit is there to pay for travel, if those people are not using it, then it won't make any difference to what we pay. (if it does then it proves the club have not been totally honest about the travle permit scheme up until now.

Not sure where you're coming from with this 'honesty' thing here, will you explain further?

I think THPP may have a proper and valid idea here.

I agree but have concerns that it'll cost the club income and increase pressure on the ticket office.

 

[dougdeep]

This means a new board,we have tried changing managers and players and at long last people are beginning to realise that this is now the only option.Unless this action is taken if Falmer does become a fact it is just as likely that we will be non-league by then.
Who will take us over?the same types who are interested in Q.P.R. and Southampton it just needs an open invitation from the present board.

The biggest load of nonsense so far this year. IMHO of course.

 

[portlock seagull]

This thread should be GOLD....! Maybe, just maybe, the board IS taking notice of how people like Storer68 and Portland Seagull feel............they are not alone by a long , long way.

Quality comments CJD, but it's PortLOCK Seagull to you sir!!

 

[portslade seagull]

Lets just say the tickets are far to expensive to watch 3rd division football and be done with it

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

Is it me... or does everyone on here forget that we pay to see our local team play football.... I don't understand why so many people have such a big issue with "the club" If you don't like it. Don't come.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Lets just say the tickets are far to expensive to watch 3rd division football and be done with it

Good point. My missus got to see the Withdean over Xmas for the first time and she was flabbergasted we pay so much money for such crap facilities and lowly football. The high prices have been accepted by a combination of sympathy and novelty at being back home. It is quite clear that the sympathy and novelty have worn thin and for most people it comes down to simple question of cost.....and a lot of people are simply saying it aint worth it.

 

[portlock seagull]

Is it me... or does everyone on here forget that we pay to see our local team play football.... I don't understand why so many people have such a big issue with "the club" If you don't like it. Don't come.

Another goon missing the entire point of this thread......:thud:

 

[portslade seagull]

Sorry but the club have massively under estimated the strength of feeling that now exists at the prices currently being charged to watch them

oap's should be £12
kids u16.............£8
students............£10-12 depending on areas of ground
adults................£15-20..as above

1 match price reductions will not bring back the fans longterm

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

3) Therefore probably £4.50 more on the ticket price for each non-Brighton resident to pay for the transport element shortfall (or where will this come from?) - so my usual two adult tickets will now cost £60 online?

Are you suggesting that Brighton residents who don't use the travel voucher are currently subsidising non-Brighton residents who do? Wouldn't put it past the club for a minute, but I sincerely hope that's not the case. There should be absolutely no 'transport element shortfall' if the transport element is taken off the cost of tickets for those who have no need of ia travel voucher and never use it. Else we should be allowed to send our unused ticket vouchers back to the club as part-payment for future tickets or a sensual Kiss'n'Ride experience or something.

 

[Superphil]

It's not a question of policing people getting on or off the buses. You can walk from the Mill Road P&R to the Withdean through Westdene as some people do regularly and we have done on occasions. At present, everyone has a travel voucher so no problem, but with THPP's idea you could have people doing this who do not have a voucher so I envisaged that the club might want to check vouchers at the point of entry to the P&R. Then they'd be a delay.



Not sure where you're coming from with this 'honesty' thing here, will you explain further?


I agree but have concerns that it'll cost the club income and increase pressure on the ticket office.

Those that walk from the park and ride car park are not using the bus, so what's the problem? The car park is there, it has never been filled, so let them park there rather than around the ground. Win-win situation, plus they get a bit of exercise walking to the ground as well, bonus.

'Honesty', what I mean is, we have always been told the travel voucher is for the buses and trains. If the club is creaming off any of this money for other things then that is wrong. I think it was you who eluded to the fact that if the people who walked to the ground didn't pay the travel £3 then the other tickets would go up in price to compensate. Why? If the travel voucher is for travel, then the club can have no problem with the local walkers not paying for it. Or are they using the money not used for buses and trians for something else

As for logisics in the ticket office, let's not go there. They really should be able to deal with Full price, student price, OAPS and kids ticket prices, as well as the occasional special offer matches. The system would automatically recognise those who have opted not to pay for the voucher, and charge them accordingly. Crikey, I could program a database to do that, it might take me an hour or so, but if it helped I could squeeze it in one Saturday morning.

Like I said, if you ain't got a travel voucher, you ain't travelling. And as for anyone who "sneaks" into the Mill Road 'car park' so what, if it saves them clogging up the roads round the ground.

It's just an idea you know, let's face it the current one doesn't work, it's driving people away with over the top prices, maybe a change would encourage some more back. Like I said, it's an idea, and one I think has some merits. I don't think it can be any worse.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

Are you suggesting that Brighton residents who don't use the travel voucher are currently subsidising non-Brighton residents who do? Wouldn't put it past the club for a minute, but I sincerely hope that's not the case. There should be absolutely no 'transport element shortfall' if the transport element is taken off the cost of tickets for those who have no need of ia travel voucher and never use it. Else we should be allowed to send our unused ticket vouchers back to the club as part-payment for future tickets or a sensual Kiss'n'Ride experience or something.

No I'm not, and if I've used the word subsidy anywhere then it was in error. The point I'm trying to make is that your proposal is cash negative for the Club and the shortfall in income, should it be implemented, has to be found from somewhere?
My understanding is that BHA has always provided a free travel voucher as part of the overall ticket price at Withdean, leaving it up to individuals whether to use it for bus, train, P&R or not at all. Clearly there's an travel element included in the ticket price for budgeting purposes but I don't think the Club has ever publicly confirmed what this is (nor do I think they should) - £3 per ticket was suggested by another poster earlier today and I have based my figures on this.
Our average league gate is approx 6000 who contribute £18000 per game towards the free transport; if you assume 60% (3600) of these are B&H residents and would opt out under your proposal then the remaining 2400 have to make up an income deficit of £10800 (ie £4.50 each) or it has to come from elsewhere? OK, if you can add 526 extra to each home gate (@£20.50) then it becomes cash neutral provided you ignore the additional costs and hassle that will be incurred at the ticket office and the online booking system. Insider referred to this when a similar point was raised on 'Ask the Club' last year.
http://www.northstandchat.biz/showthread.php?t=113902

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

No I'm not, and if I've used the word subsidy anywhere then it was in error. The point I'm trying to make is that your proposal is cash negative for the Club and the shortfall in income, should it be implemented, has to be found from somewhere?

Well ONE of us is missing something here. The travel voucher element, so far as I'm aware, is not supposed to be 'income' for the club, it's supposed to be used by the club to reimburse the providers of transport. If I don't use that transport, and don't give any transport provider my ticket stub and just bin it, as I invariably do, what happens to my three quid? Sorry, but I refuse to believe there would be any 'shortfall in income' involved. Or if there is, then the club have been using all the three quids that don't get used for transport for something other than was intended. IMHO like.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

Well ONE of us is missing something here. The travel voucher element, so far as I'm aware, is not supposed to be 'income' for the club, it's supposed to be used by the club to reimburse the providers of transport. If I don't use that transport, and don't give any transport provider my ticket stub and just bin it, as I invariably do, what happens to my three quid? Sorry, but I refuse to believe there would be any 'shortfall in income' involved. Or if there is, then the club have been using all the three quids that don't get used for transport for something other than was intended. IMHO like.

I'm getting similarly exasperated - maybe a pint is called for?

It's been clear in my mind since the Club first moved to Withdean that the travel voucher is free and included in the ticket price, I believe it is promoted in this way to:
(1) Show Brighton Council that BHA are serious about getting fans to use sustainable transport and to comply with the planning consent.
(2) For simplicity.
(3) Avoid getting into debates/arguements with individuals about how much the voucher is worth, whether they use it, possible reimbursement etc.
Good luck if you put your point to DK on Saturday but I'll be surprised if you get very far.
Seriously, what do you think happens to the hypothetical £3 from your ticket cost?

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

Those that walk from the park and ride car park are not using the bus, so what's the problem? The car park is there, it has never been filled, so let them park there rather than around the ground. Win-win situation, plus they get a bit of exercise walking to the ground as well, bonus.

Sure, the Mill Road P&R hasn't been filled when I've been there this season.
So B&H resident fans will pay nothing and the non-B&H fans can pay for the parking stewards and set up of the P&R's - hmmm?
And the B&H residents who currently park around the ground (what!) but could use a P&R now at no cost will, if their ticket price is reduced by a few quid, use the same P&R car park that someone else is paying for and then "walk" to the ground!

'Honesty', what I mean is, we have always been told the travel voucher is for the buses and trains. If the club is creaming off any of this money for other things then that is wrong. I think it was you who eluded to the fact that if the people who walked to the ground didn't pay the travel £3 then the other tickets would go up in price to compensate. Why? If the travel voucher is for travel, then the club can have no problem with the local walkers not paying for it. Or are they using the money not used for buses and trians for something else

As I've said elsewhere, my understanding has always been that the travel vouchers are free and included in the ticket price. The £3 is an arbitary figure for calculation purposes only and my thoughts were based on the original assumption that the vast majority of fans from B&H do not currently make use of the travel vouchers - maybe I misunderstood THPP (again) but even if it's 30% of the average gate then there will still an income shortfall to BHA of 1800 x £3 per game?

As for logisics in the ticket office, let's not go there. They really should be able to deal with Full price, student price, OAPS and kids ticket prices, as well as the occasional special offer matches. The system would automatically recognise those who have opted not to pay for the voucher, and charge them accordingly. Crikey, I could program a database to do that, it might take me an hour or so, but if it helped I could squeeze it in one Saturday morning.

Nothing to do with the ticket price, it's a question of having to issue two types of tickets (with and without vouchers) and whether the on-line system can handle ticket purchases/prices with postcode restrictions?

Like I said, if you ain't got a travel voucher, you ain't travelling. And as for anyone who "sneaks" into the Mill Road 'car park' so what, if it saves them clogging up the roads round the ground.

See above. I can't see this having any impact on people who park round the ground.

It's just an idea you know, let's face it the current one doesn't work, it's driving people away with over the top prices, maybe a change would encourage some more back. Like I said, it's an idea, and one I think has some merits. I don't think it can be any worse.

Agreed, it is only an idea, it does have some merit and the ticket pricing structure is seen by some as an easy explanation for the decline in attendance. However, I still think it'll cost the club money and declining income seems to be the major problem for BHA at the present time.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I'm getting similarly exasperated - maybe a pint is called for?

Indeed it is

It was only an idea, a way of maybe getting the ticket price down below the psychological 20 pounds barrier. The club are welcome to use my three quid - or sixty quid a season - as they see fit. I took three guests on Tuesday. Got practically no change out of 75 quid, and none of us used the travel vouchers. Neither did the half dozen regulars we walked to the ground with. That's ten lots of three quids in the club's coffers straight off.

Off to Oz later today, so unfortunately won't be able to hear what Dick Knight has to say. Tho will no doubt be unable to resist the lure of NSC completely while I'm away so will be able to catch up later in the week. Cheers mate

 

[m20gull]

As someone who was a STH at the Goldstone and missed one game at Gillingham but rarely goes to Withdean, I'll add my twopennorth.

For me there is firstly personal circumstances, which could apply to anyone. I got divorced and my wife used to go to every game with me. Going is not so fun without your usual companion so I cut back going to games. Away games are much more fun and I WILL spend my money how I choose to. Secondly I have a lot less income than I used to and I am more selective about what I spend it on.

Then there is Withdean, which I find a dreadfully soulless experience. The shortcomings of Withdean are well discussed and I won't do them to death again. Price is an issue - Withdean is colossally expensive for Third division football - ask any fan who goes to away matches. The inclusion of travel is a side issue (how can you pay less money for tickets without reducing the club's income?) but needs to be considered as it hikes up the face price of all tickets. Elsewhere it is nothing to pay £5 for a park and ride (when I travel to Withdean it is usually on my own by car) on top of the price, but that is at least per car not per person.

I am sure that the reason for the decline in crowds (though actually I'm not sure the decline is that bad when measured against similar seasons) is boredom with the product on offer - a combination of venue, quality of the team and quality of the opposition plus no obvious prospect of promotion. With no improvement in the product (until Falmer) the only way of increasing crowds is price.

But I don't have the stats from the previous season promotional offers to know whether the price makes much difference (football is notoriously price-inelastic). The club does seem to have tried - increasing capacity and arranging a dedicated family stand, short season tickets, kids-for-a-quid - these all help but they don't affect the basic equation:

Withdean is boring and not worth the money charged to get in.