How do you know when there’s to many Immigrants in England

[Lokki 7]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How do you know when there’s to many Immigrants in England

The fight was between Poland and Germany over the lands taken from Germany under the terms of the WW1 armistace called the Zerdatunlands (or something like that) We got involved in somebody else's problem. A bit like Iraq now.

You seem to be under some strange illusion that WW2 was a local dispute between Germany and Poland that got out of hand when those nasty British declared war. Perhaps you are right. Perhaps Hitler is the victim here, all he wanted was to reclaim a few acres of potato fields and a couple of pig farms but was forced to march through the whole of Europe causing death and destruction whilst gassing a few million stubborn jews. I'd never looked at it like that before. Chamberlain and Churchill you are a disgrace

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

You need to roll back to 1937 and the Hossbach Conference, where Hitler announced the Lebensraum policy, and considered his options for expansion. Initially wary of France and Britain, he considered that Britain was weak enough, and too far spread, to be able to stop Germany, but that France were the ones with the power of geographical location and strength of forces. The 1938 Austrian Anschluss had no other possible outcome apart from the occupation of the Sudetenland and then Poland, as Germany had to protect her flank. Seeing that the invasion of Poland was imminent, Britain signed a pact in Aug 39 to protect Poland, then Germany invaded in Sep 39.

Don't forget that there was also a Russo-German pact in existence at the time, which is why the Russians moved into Poland, and by the end of 39 had divided it up between them. Not until 41, and Op Barbarossa, did Russia and Germany turn on each other.

Therefore, it was not "their war" as such, but one which we were morally bound to enter - and the division of Poland was predetermined owing to the Russo-German division at the start of the war.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

...didn't know that dtg, now it is starting to become clearer. I do know that a large number of Poles served with distinction in our Armed Forces during WWII. Something else I just remembered is that the borders of Poland moved slightly at the end of the war, the northern cities of Gdansk and Sczezin were formerly known in
Germany as Danzig and Stettin respectively, Germany lost most of its Baltic coast to Poland.

That was Hitler's main gripe

The Sudetenland in the East and Alsace Lorriane in the West was ceded at the end of the first war and also part of the Czec Republic. His speeches to " Der Deutche Folke" made constant reference of "repatriating" the German people forced to live under foreign rule by the settlement.

as far as I can remember from my History Books, the allied powers allowed Germany to take Czechoslovakia in return for them staying out of Poland. Hitler took the Czec and when Chamberlain went to see him, he agreed that he had taken all he wanted and that was that...hence the " peace in our time"....unfortunately, he then ignored the allies and took Poland anyway....following up with Belgium and Holland when the British Expeditionery Force landed and pressed towards germany.


BTW did you know that the reason why France surrendered so quickly was that Hitler threatened to flatten Paris so destroying the French treasures.

Once France surrendered, to stop the French Navy , which was huge falling into Nazi hands, we destroyed the French Navy in Marsailles Harbour killing thousands of French Sailors......

 

[Dandyman]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How do you know when there’s to many Immigrants in England

The fight was between Poland and Germany over the lands taken from Germany under the terms of the WW1 armistace called the Zerdatunlands (or something like that) We got involved in somebody else's problem. A bit like Iraq now.

Conflict over the Sudetenland began immediately after the Anschluss of Austria into the Third Reich in March 1938. This led to the Czechoslovak Crisis. The Nazis - together with their Sudeten German allies - claimed throughout the year that the Sudeten Germans in Czechoslovakia were being mistreated and oppressed by the Czech government, and demanded incorporation of the region into Nazi Germany. The Western powers urged the Czechs to comply with Germany believing that they could prevent a general war by appeasing Hitler. Neville Chamberlain met with Adolf Hitler in Berchtesgaden, on September 15, and agreed to the cession of the Sudetenland, as did Edouard Daladier and Georges Bonnet three days later. The Czechs themselves were not included in these discussions. Chamberlain met Hitler in Godesberg on September 22 to confirm the agreements. The discussions here fell through, however, as Hitler made new demands that Chamberlain was not able to defend in parliament.

Hitler agreed to meet representatives from France, the United Kingdom, and Italy at the conference in Munich (September 29) where all four leaders signed the Munich Agreement ceding the Sudetenland to Germany. The Czechoslovak government capitulated September 30 and agreed to abide by the agreement. The Sudetenland was occupied by Germany between October 1 and October 10. This unification with the Third Reich was followed by the flight and forcible expulsion of the region's Czech population to the remaining parts of Czechoslovakia, which were subsequently invaded and annexed by Germany in March 1939

 

[Gully]

blimey, I have taken a few days off work to do some decorating, instead I find myself getting a history lesson.

I had a German neighbour a few years ago, her family were originally from Silesia, I think this was the area that ethnic Germans were repatriated to the fatherland, in fact I believe they were moved into houses "vacated" by Jews. As you can imagine it wasn't something that was really talked about.

 

[bhaexpress]

...didn't know that dtg, now it is starting to become clearer. I do know that a large number of Poles served with distinction in our Armed Forces during WWII. Something else I just remembered is that the borders of Poland moved slightly at the end of the war, the northern cities of Gdansk and Sczezin were formerly known in
Germany as Danzig and Stettin respectively, Germany lost most of its Baltic coast to Poland.

Dave knows because he's old enough to have been there but seriously I knew and clearly 3gulls doesn't. Hence the (let's be nice) misguided post.

 

[Blackadder]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How do you know when there’s to many Immigrants in England

Britain and France delared war on Germany because Hitler refused to withdraw from Poland. FACT

Germany never intended to go to war with GB. Not quite FACT.

I was just questioning your simplistic view.

There's been a few posts since your reply on the outbreak of WW2, so I won't go into too much detail.

I would just mention the word Appeasement. You know, the bit where you keep giving into the bully as he takes more and more.

I'm sure Russia felt that Hitler wouldn't invade them but they did!

(To be fair you do say Not Quite fact on Germany declaring war on GB)

 

[Gully]

...certainly you should never mention the word "appeasement" or "capitulation" to the Dutch, apparently they lasted 5 days against the might of the German army and just gave up rather than see their country raped and overrun, which the Germans did in any case.

The Germans then confiscated all the bicycles in an attempt to stop the Dutch legging it to France, something the population have never forgotten as each time they play football against each other you see signs saying "have you seen my grandmothers' bike?".

 

[Publius Ovidius]

...

The Germans then confiscated all the bicycles in an attempt to stop the Dutch legging it to France, something the population have never forgotten as each time they play football against each other you see signs saying "have you seen my grandmothers' bike?".

I heard another variation on that by a Dutch friend when we were on holiday in France. She one night got very drunk and started abusing some loud Germans on the next table to us.

She later explained that to piss off the Germans, you should always say " Can I have my family's bicycle back now please?" explained as when the German Army was retreating to the Rhine, they knew they were running short on fuel, hence they took all the local population's bicyles.

I never thought I would act as peacemaker between the dutch and the Germans, but they were going to lump one another and the wine was too good to be spilled all over the place

 

[3gulls]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How do you know when there’s to many Immigrants in England

Conflict over the Sudetenland began immediately after the Anschluss of Austria into the Third Reich in March 1938. This led to the Czechoslovak Crisis. The Nazis - together with their Sudeten German allies - claimed throughout the year that the Sudeten Germans in Czechoslovakia were being mistreated and oppressed by the Czech government, and demanded incorporation of the region into Nazi Germany. The Western powers urged the Czechs to comply with Germany believing that they could prevent a general war by appeasing Hitler. Neville Chamberlain met with Adolf Hitler in Berchtesgaden, on September 15, and agreed to the cession of the Sudetenland, as did Edouard Daladier and Georges Bonnet three days later. The Czechs themselves were not included in these discussions. Chamberlain met Hitler in Godesberg on September 22 to confirm the agreements. The discussions here fell through, however, as Hitler made new demands that Chamberlain was not able to defend in parliament.

Hitler agreed to meet representatives from France, the United Kingdom, and Italy at the conference in Munich (September 29) where all four leaders signed the Munich Agreement ceding the Sudetenland to Germany. The Czechoslovak government capitulated September 30 and agreed to abide by the agreement. The Sudetenland was occupied by Germany between October 1 and October 10. This unification with the Third Reich was followed by the flight and forcible expulsion of the region's Czech population to the remaining parts of Czechoslovakia, which were subsequently invaded and annexed by Germany in March 1939

Good text. But, where does it say the event was our problem?

 

[m.c.hamster]

There are too many immigrants when you can't order a drink in Fat Leo's in Brighton because the staff can't speak English. I did get an empty glass and then an Italian waiter intervened and gave me a beer I hadn't ordered!!

 

[3gulls]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How do you know when there’s to many Immigrants in England

You seem to be under some strange illusion that WW2 was a local dispute between Germany and Poland that got out of hand when those nasty British declared war. Perhaps you are right. Perhaps Hitler is the victim here, all he wanted was to reclaim a few acres of potato fields and a couple of pig farms but was forced to march through the whole of Europe causing death and destruction whilst gassing a few million stubborn jews. I'd never looked at it like that before. Chamberlain and Churchill you are a disgrace

You appear to have got over excited over nothing, my comment was purely based upon the following exchange at the start of this thread between Oceanic and Clapham-Gull:-


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Oceanic
When you hear 7,000 Polish fans booing our players. Every time we've played them over here they've brought 400 maximum. All the eastern blocks used too bring 100 maybe 300 tops, now they sell out. Strange.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Perhaps would should have sent that lot back who helped us out in the Battle of Britain too ?



Seeing as the crowd very audibly were booing THEIR national anthem, well its hardly surprising.

The fact that they "helped us out in the Battle of Britain" was as a result of us jumping-in on their side in the first place. As simple as that.

As far as the Jews are concerned; there were many different types of victim, the Jews were just one catagory of people affected. It is a pitty they don't practice what they preach in the Middle East!

 

[Dandyman]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How do you know when there’s to many Immigrants in England

Good text. But, where does it say the event was our problem?

A popular point of view amongst revionist historian but one that falls to stand up to either national self-interest or moral/political principal.

A Nazi super-state in Europe that harnessed the slave labour power of millions, controlled Romanian and Soviet oil fields and the productive power of other conquered territory would inevitably both become a threat to the British Empire and be in a position to dictate to it on both economic and military grounds.

In addition to this the idea that would should sit by and see, to paraphrase Churchill, Europe plunged into a new dark ages replete with the genocide of millions of innocents is to me simply unacceptable.

 

[3gulls]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How do you know when there’s to many Immigrants in England

A popular point of view amongst revionist historian but one that falls to stand up to either national self-interest or moral/political principal.

A Nazi super-state in Europe that harnessed the slave labour power of millions, controlled Romanian and Soviet oil fields and the productive power of other conquered territory would inevitably both become a threat to the British Empire and be in a position to dictate to it on both economic and military grounds.

In addition to this the idea that would should sit by and see, to paraphrase Churchill, Europe plunged into a new dark ages replete with the genocide of millions of innocents is to me simply unacceptable.

No, I still don't get your point. Also you talk about German control of the Soviet oil fields. In 1939 Germany and the USSR were signatories to a non-aggression pact and the question of these oil fields did not exist. Ironic how our involvement in the war lead to the demise of our Empire anyway. Churchill was also a "nutter" ranting in the wings at that time, and nobody listened to him - until it was too late. I'm not sure that slave labour even existed at that time. Perhapse you could check that in your book?

 

[3gulls]

BTW did you know that the reason why France surrendered so quickly was that Hitler threatened to flatten Paris so destroying the French treasures.

That, and the BEF f***ing-off and leaving them to it. Also they retained control of a large part of France under the terms of the Armistice.

Despite current propoganda, many french prefered the germans to the british and were happy to colabotate. Nothing much changes does it!

 

[clapham_gull]

I'm not sure that slave labour even existed at that time.

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How do you know when there’s to many Immigrants in England

You appear to have got over excited over nothing, my comment was purely based upon the following exchange at the start of this thread between Oceanic and Clapham-Gull:-


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Oceanic
When you hear 7,000 Polish fans booing our players. Every time we've played them over here they've brought 400 maximum. All the eastern blocks used too bring 100 maybe 300 tops, now they sell out. Strange.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Perhaps would should have sent that lot back who helped us out in the Battle of Britain too ?



Seeing as the crowd very audibly were booing THEIR national anthem, well its hardly surprising.

The fact that they "helped us out in the Battle of Britain" was as a result of us jumping-in on their side in the first place. As simple as that.

As far as the Jews are concerned; there were many different types of victim, the Jews were just one catagory of people affected. It is a pitty they don't practice what they preach in the Middle East!

You actually believe this don't you

 

[3gulls]

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You actually believe this don't you

What is wrong with it then Brown Hatter?

 

[ben andrews' girlfriend]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How do you know when there’s to many Immigran

You actually believe this don't you

Unfortunately he does