[News] how comfortable are you with UK airforce defending Israel?

[wellquickwoody]

It's a difficult one.

I'm more than happy for us to help defend Israel's civilians. In particular from a massive over-reaction from Iran.

On the other hand ... the whole situation over there is stupid. Israel's government and military are far too heavy-handed and have a tendency to treat any non-Israeli as a suspect terrorist. Which inflames the whole situation. I have a lot of sympathy for civilian Palestinians and feel they also have a right to be defended from massive military over-reactions.

But also ... the approach of Hamas, especially that attack last year, cannot be defended. That sort of activity is not going to get them what they want.

Both sides have shown a complete lack of ability to flex, lack of empathy, lack of ability to see how their approaches to dealing with it all simply won't result in a "victory" for either side.

So IMO ... we should not help defend Israel from the side-effects of how they've handled things. But defending them from Iran ... I can live with that. For now. But if Israel responds in-kind and further escalates the situation, that might change.

Over reaction from Iran? Really?

I think Israel has over reaction down to an art! Oct 7 saw Hamas massacre around 1200 people, since then Israel have killed a figure approaching 50,000 in Gaza.

 

[jcdenton08]

I don’t like it…

…but I’ll have to go along with it

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I'm not comfortable with the UK supporting Israel militarily.

I'm not comfortable with the whole hearted support for one side in this violence

I'm not saying this out of any anti Israel position. I just think that any fair assessment of the ongoing middle east crisis will conclude ....

A) It's very complex
B) It's very dangerous
C) All sides have competing claims and none of the actors are entirely blameless
D) Lots of innocent people who are blameless are dying, being maimed or being displaced
E) British intervention in the middle east is, at best fraught with risk and usually contributes to disaster
F) There are significant constituencies of opinion on both sides in this country who, fairly, hold very strong positions


Given all this. I can't understand why a British Prime Minister would take a side. It's not like a Russia and Ukraine situation, where there is an obvious aggressor and an obvious innocent party. In the middle east, our position should be one of neutrality. We've caused enough damage. If we're going to stop Iranian missiles, we should be stopping Israeli ones as well. But better just to stay out of it and be a broker for peace

 

[Justice]

I do feel Starmer speaks a load of bollocks.
All this Standing with nonsense he speaks like a mum who’s never off facebook.

 

[Sea Cider]

Apologies if this point has already been made, but why aren't our armed forces helping Ukraine shoot down Russian arms targeting their civilian infrastructure and people?

 

[Justice]

Apologies if this point has already been made, but why aren't our armed forces helping Ukraine shoot down Russian arms targeting their civilian infrastructure and people?

They are shit scared of Putin pressing the button.

 

[Commander]

Apologies if this point has already been made, but why aren't our armed forces helping Ukraine shoot down Russian arms targeting their civilian infrastructure and people?

This is exactly why the Yanks / Israel won't allow a nuclear armed Iran to exist- because it shifts the entire balance of power.

 

[SeagullinExile]

They are shit scared of Putin pressing the button.

Which he won’t, because he’s not an idiot.

 

[jcdenton08]

Which he won’t, because he’s not an idiot.

Might not be an idiot, but he is a malicious bastard…

 

[SeagullinExile]

Might not be an idiot, but he is a malicious bastard…

No more than Netanyahu in my opinion.

 

[Official Old Man]

I am worried. We are defending a country against another country. We've taken sides in what could well become a war on a larger scale. If we are involved it gives the aggressor a reason to attack us, be it in Cyprus or our bases here in the UK.
My other concern is why this war and not Ukraine who are up against Russia? Do we pick our fights depending on whether we think we can win.

 

[Diablo]

And there we go with the obligatory thousand word response. Just can't help himself, even tho for just about everybody it's just the usual TL;DR

Seems as if your pre emptive strike was not hard enough !!

 

[jcdenton08]

Seems as if your pre emptive strike was not hard enough !!

Sounds like my Mrs

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I am worried. We are defending a country against another country. We've taken sides in what could well become a war on a larger scale. If we are involved it gives the aggressor a reason to attack us, be it in Cyprus or our bases here in the UK.

I think this is a legitimate concern of taking a side so decisively.

Another one is the threat of jihadi terrorism. We must all be thankful that there have been a decreasing number of these type of terrorist attacks in the last few years. But can we take this for granted?

If we're enabling Israel to act with apparent impunity and ignore mass bloodshed it's causing, how long before the fight is bought to our streets, bars and music venues once more?

 

[SeagullinExile]

 

[Lenny Rider]

I am a little surprised that once again we have given air protection to Isreal downing Iranian missiles. The US I can understand more because of their geo-political posture but us? Did the French, Germans, Italians also partake? I do appreciate that this clusterfuck is largely of our very historic making, but can't really see why, unless, a big unless, we are really worried about Iranian aggression? Please I'm not after a binfest, it's just a question

Almost bizarre in the fact that the Royal Navy aren't allowed to defend the English Channel.

But in answer to your original question, if it maintains world peace then its has to be a good thing.

 

[sparkie]

No.

We need to keep every cl. of fuel, every missile and every bullet in case we need them against the evil Moscow goblin.

 

[WhingForPresident]

I wish we could just chill out, float about on our little island and not get involved in anything rather than doing the whole 'World Police' act with the yanks. Unfortunately, there are obviously too many geopolitical issues we've contributed to or created for that to be an option.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

But in answer to your original question, if it maintains world peace then its has to be a good thing.

That seems to be quite a big if at this point in time

 

[Wardy's twin]

Of course. But it is an interesting thought experiment to wonder what would have happened if Israel was not located in Palestine but somewhere else in the world. Would there have been a chain of events that still led Islamic terrorists to commit terrorist attacks in the US, UK and elsewhere?

The ME has been the centre of east -west trade for thousands of years and has had pretty much constant flux regards 'countries' and people fighting over control over those resources ,in olden times it was silk & spices more latterly its been about of oil , a conflict which predates the formation of modern Israel.

Would there be terrorists if Israel did not exist , the answer is yes though they might not be in exactly the same format e.g. a force similar to the current Hezbollah might be taking on Saudi directly, that threatens our oil supply so we would (and do) supply arms and support to Saudi so we would be open to same threat.