[News] how comfortable are you with UK airforce defending Israel?

[1066familyman]

I think its simply the way the world is, we have our allies and we help to defend them. Much of the history of the world is defined by alliances between nations. Israel is our ally because Palestine used to be our colony, because of 1945, because of residual hatred for what the Nazis did, because we include Israel within our greater western alliance, because ultimately we do what the USA wants us to do.

What is frustrating, is that we don't agree with how our ally is acting, there is huge public unease with what Israel is doing, but when push comes to shove the government supports them. Britain is particularly loyal to its allies, when the US invaded Iraq there were most in NATO who actively disagreed and refused to participate, not us.

I guess we take the view that however shitty Israel is, it would be worse if we didn't help and they were wiped out, then there would be a big powerful Islamic group in the ME and we wouldn't like that. I think many, like me, take the view that the only reason we seem to be in conflict with the muslim world is precisely because of our support for Israel, and without that animosity there would be no need for conflict between Islam and the west.

Way too simplistic. We are not in conflict with many in the Muslim world. In fact, we're best friends with many of them!

Regarding Iran, the UK was always going to be in conflict with it after 1979, once our puppet was overthrown.

The UK, and US have never ever ceased from seeking to implement their version of 'democracy' on the rest of the world. Be that by force, or by political means. Nothing really changes in that regard.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Way too simplistic. We are not in conflict with many in the Muslim world. In fact, we're best friends with many of them!

Regarding Iran, the UK was always going to be in conflict with it after 1979, once our puppet was overthrown.

The UK, and US have never ever ceased from seeking to implement their version of 'democracy' on the rest of the world. Be that by force, or by political means. Nothing really changes in that regard.

And there are plenty of Muslims who'd like to impose Sharia on others too. Not as many as Tommy Ten Names says, but undoubtedly some. 9/11 and other Muslim terror has its reasons too.

When it comes down to it, many of us are convinced our own culture is superior to others. Kemi Bad Enoch said the same again just the other day.

Land is an issue in conflict. Religion is an issue in conflict. But cultural imperialism is too, and that applies to all sides.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Way too simplistic. We are not in conflict with many in the Muslim world. In fact, we're best friends with many of them!

Regarding Iran, the UK was always going to be in conflict with it after 1979, once our puppet was overthrown.

The UK, and US have never ever ceased from seeking to implement their version of 'democracy' on the rest of the world. Be that by force, or by political means. Nothing really changes in that regard.

Of course. But it is an interesting thought experiment to wonder what would have happened if Israel was not located in Palestine but somewhere else in the world. Would there have been a chain of events that still led Islamic terrorists to commit terrorist attacks in the US, UK and elsewhere?

 

[Crawley Dingo]

Not on either side as its not my fight. We have been bombing people almost non stop or a few 100 years for one reason or another so I'm not moved by this, also the UK's security and military set up is very integrated with the US equivalent so not suprised. 5 eyes and all that.

 

[happypig]

Not at all.

Especially as I am currently in Cyprus, though fortunately not too near to Akrotiri base.

But I'm not happy that our government is so adamant about supporting Israel unconditionally.

"The BBC understands that British military jets did not shoot down any Iranian ballistic missiles fired overnight. Nor did the Royal Navy Destroyer, HMS Duncan, fire any of her Sea Viper missiles.

The UK Defence Secretary, John Healey, earlier said that UK forces “played their part” to prevent escalation in last night’s mass Iranian ballistic missile strike on Israel.

But so far the Ministry of Defence has given no further detail of how they were involved."

Israel-Iran latest: Israel and Hezbollah fighting on the ground in Lebanon after Israeli invasion

Israel's military reports "close-range encounters" inside Lebanon, while Hezbollah also reports clashes.

www.bbc.co.uk

I'm in Cyprus too ATM (Paphos). saw a couple of USMC Ospreys fly over this afternoon. Follwed them a bit on flightradar and then noticed a refuelling tanker loitering around to the south. It's track showed it had flown from Akrotiri, out over Syria/Iraq as far as the Iran border then back again.
Interestingly, it's doing the same, this time there's a couple of Typhoons behind it but I'd expect them to go dark again after refuelling https://www.flightradar24.com/RRR9961/375d3987

 

[Comrade Sam]

As a Jew I avoid reading these threads, but bloody disgusted, I'd rather they were protecting the children of Gaza from Israeli genocide.

 

[Lincolnshire Seagull]

I'm in Cyprus too ATM (Paphos). saw a couple of USMC Ospreys fly over this afternoon. Follwed them a bit on flightradar and then noticed a refuelling tanker loitering around to the south. It's track showed it had flown from Akrotiri, out over Syria/Iraq as far as the Iran border then back again.
Interestingly, it's doing the same, this time there's a couple of Typhoons behind it but I'd expect them to go dark again after refuelling https://www.flightradar24.com/RRR9961/375d3987

Blimey. Had no idea you can track even military flights. I assume the RAF's role at the moment is mainly providing surveillance info, but no doubt it can soon escalate into something more. Not in my name thanks.

 

[dejavuatbtn]

I would have been OK for us to help Israel defend itself - and then they went and bombed the hell out of innocent families and children in an act of pure revenge. They have done little to help release their hostages and caused misery to their families by not securing their release through negotiation.
I am inclined to let them get on with it without the danger of us getting any more blood on our own hands.

 

[birthofanorange]

The whole Middle East seems to be full of war-hungry, intolerant bastard Leaders and I wish they'd all just f*** off into oblivion. Sick to death of each and every one of them - no exceptions.
****s.
(And f*** religion, too.)

 

[Blue3]

I am happy for UK supplied equipment to be used by Israel for self defence but not for offensive purposes and as for UK military taking an active role it’s a no.
All the above might change as the situation develops

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

The whole Middle East seems to be full of war-hungry, intolerant bastard Leaders and I wish they'd all just f*** off into oblivion. Sick to death of each and every one of them - no exceptions.
****s.
(And f*** religion, too.)

Hard to disagree.

 

[Skuller]

I am a little surprised that once again we have given air protection to Isreal downing Iranian missiles. The US I can understand more because of their geo-political posture but us? Did the French, Germans, Italians also partake? I do appreciate that this clusterfuck is largely of our very historic making, but can't really see why, unless, a big unless, we are really worried about Iranian aggression? Please I'm not after a binfest, it's just a question

I need to question “this clusterfuck is largely of our very historic making,”. The Balfour Declaration was a noble attempt to help establish a homeland for the Jews. Our occupation of Palestine before and after the war was under a UN mandate, not an act of imperialism. We so defended the rights of Palestinians that the Zionists bombed the King David Hotel in Jerusalem in 1946 killing 28 British people. I know it’s trendy to slag-off our past but I’m not convinced it’s justified here.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I need to question “this clusterfuck is largely of our very historic making,”. The Balfour Declaration was a noble attempt to help establish a homeland for the Jews. Our occupation of Palestine before and after the war was under a UN mandate, not an act of imperialism. We so defended the rights of Palestinians that the Zionists bombed the King David Hotel in Jerusalem in 1946 killing 28 British people. I know it’s trendy to slag-off our past but I’m not convinced it’s justified here.

Indeed some need to grasp history. The first "terrorists" in the area were from the Jewish community.

 

[Whoislloydy]

Play stupid games, win stupid prices.

 

[SeagullinExile]

Absolutely mortified. I will not support any UK armed forces being used to enable Israeli genocide.

 

[SeagullinExile]

"The BBC understands that British military jets did not shoot down any Iranian ballistic missiles fired overnight. Nor did the Royal Navy Destroyer, HMS Duncan, fire any of her Sea Viper missiles.

The UK Defence Secretary, John Healey, earlier said that UK forces “played their part” to prevent escalation in last night’s mass Iranian ballistic missile strike on Israel.

But so far the Ministry of Defence has given no further detail of how they were involved."

Israel-Iran latest: Israel and Hezbollah fighting on the ground in Lebanon after Israeli invasion

Israel's military reports "close-range encounters" inside Lebanon, while Hezbollah also reports clashes.

www.bbc.co.uk

Played their part? Made the tea perhaps?

 

[A1X]

Civilians need protecting from military force. Whether they live in Tel-Aviv, Gaza, Kyiv, Tehran or anywhere else.

I’d be much less comfortable if we were involved in protecting (e.g.) Israeli airbases, as far as I’m concerned that’s their problem to deal with.

We’ve acted in Israel to protect civilians. Good. We’ve provided equipment to help protect civilians in Kyiv. Good, but more work to do. We should also be protecting civilians elsewhere, and frankly the UK has fallen short. Never to late to start, however.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Civilians need protecting from military force. Whether they live in Tel-Aviv, Gaza, Kyiv, Tehran or anywhere else.

I’d be much less comfortable if we were involved in protecting (e.g.) Israeli airbases, as far as I’m concerned that’s their problem to deal with.

We’ve acted in Israel to protect civilians. Good. We’ve provided equipment to help protect civilians in Kyiv. Good, but more work to do. We should also be protecting civilians elsewhere, and frankly the UK has fallen short. Never to late to start, however.

Could start with Gaza

 

[SeagullinExile]

I need to question “this clusterfuck is largely of our very historic making,”. The Balfour Declaration was a noble attempt to help establish a homeland for the Jews. Our occupation of Palestine before and after the war was under a UN mandate, not an act of imperialism. We so defended the rights of Palestinians that the Zionists bombed the King David Hotel in Jerusalem in 1946 killing 28 British people. I know it’s trendy to slag-off our past but I’m not convinced it’s justified here.

Yep, at least we caught and executed the murderous bastard Avraham Stern. ****.

​

 

[GingerBeerMan]

Why? is it simply a question of money and the power positions of Jews in both countries? Genuine question.

Essentially it's all about money. Sink billions into funding candidates and parties which back you and you can control who wins elections. Turn away (or criticise too harshly) from Israel and you're basically guaranteeing an election loss. Therefore you have to be seen to be towing the party line.