Hooligans

[DJ Leon]

Re: Re: Re: Hooligans

Which was what ? A few instances of yobbish behaviour gets translated into "England's shame" & some Yorkshire monkeys get themsleves set up for attenttion next season.. What a lot of tabloid bollocks.

Well it's probably not often that Panaorama gets accused of being tabloid bollocks.

Anyhow, what I was expecting to see (despite claims that we are now some of the best fans in the world) was a sliding scale of behaviour from disrespect for other countries and in particular to the WC hosts to intimidation and anti-social behaviour to out and out violence. And we got it and no I'm not surprised.

It may not have been a majority of fans indulging in behaviour like this, but then again it's not a majority of English holiday makers that make trouble in major European resorts, but that doesn't stop English idiots embarassing us all with their behaviour. Nor is it a majority of people that act the way these fans did in towns and cities on a Friday/Saturday night, but that doesn't mean it isn't a problem or worth reporting on.

 

[gts big bruv]

To quote an official police source there were 246 arrests of England fans during the World Cup. That is out of 26,000 that went abroad.

There were more arrests at Ascot.

there was definately more than 26,000 there was at least 100,00 in frankfurt so 246 arrests is a very small percentage indeed

 

[Dover]

Damn I meant to watch this - is it repeated?

It may well be on the BBC One website. They have got last weeks as a repeat at present.

 

[DJ Leon]

To quote an official police source there were 246 arrests of England fans during the World Cup. That is out of 26,000 that went abroad.

There were more arrests at Ascot.

And you just saw how difficult it was to get arrested with the police operating a policy of tolerance.

We saw racist chanting, illegal Nazi symbolism and the initimidation of women. No-one was visibly arrested for any of it.

It may have prevented more serious trouble, but it's not the way I would police it.

 

[Monkey Man]

The coverage of the world cup throughout the tournament made the point that English fans were, in the majority, friendly and better behaved than normal.

As I understand it, this Panorama merely set out to give another perspective but repeatedly pointed out that most fans were not part of the problem.

What we saw was pretty ugly, and depressing -- mainly because it wasn't organised hooliganism (bad enough) but the "normal" behaviour of English fatties with too much sun and too much beer.

We've got a problem in this country. Even if the Panorama programme stitched together the only footage there was of English yobbery (highly dubious, but let's assume) that would be bad enough. Why should Germans and other nationalities put up with it? Why should the English put up with it?

 

[CHAPPERS]

One True Saxon this season or will sir be favouring Evissu ?

OTS, Penguin, Lacoste. Carharrt will be making a comeback in a BIG way.

 

[Dandyman]

The coverage of the world cup throughout the tournament made the point that English fans were, in the majority, friendly and better behaved than normal.

As I understand it, this Panorama merely set out to give another perspective but repeatedly pointed out that most fans were not part of the problem.

What we saw was pretty ugly, and depressing -- mainly because it wasn't organised hooliganism (bad enough) but the "normal" behaviour of English fatties with too much sun and too much beer.

We've got a problem in this country. Even if the Panorama programme stitched together the only footage there was of English yobbery (highly dubious, but let's assume) that would be bad enough. Why should Germans and other nationalities put up with it? Why should the English put up with it?

A fair post - I think the vast majority of us who went out there (and I am not talking about the happy clappy types) had a great time and came back very positive about our hosts.

I don't think anyone is saying there was no yobbish behaviour (and it came from Germans, Poles and others as well) just that it should be kept in proportion rather than being yet another episode in middle England moralising (and that means the Beeb not you).

 

[Dandyman]

OTS, Penguin, Lacoste. Carharrt will be making a comeback in a BIG way.

I LIKE Penguin - very Bob Hope in a terrace stylee. Looking for a bit of retro for myself, I think. Although not to extent of that CASUAL Mr Morris chap.

 

[London Irish]

BBC Scotland are showing it tomorrow night. Dont know if that helps!!

Ta, that's on Sky Digital

 

[dwayne]

the bit where the shit solo brazilian breakdancer got beer thrown on him was funny as f***!

 

[timbha]

Well said, Ned. There are more arrests at Horse Racing than any other sport.


"I'd like to hear more about how Panorama works, since you're in the know.


No Monkeyman. I watch the news an awful lot, and know how to summise. Trust me on this one. There is a famous picture with the Mod hitting the Rocker with a deck chair in Brighton on Maderia Drive. It was a set up for the snapper, and was depicted in Quadrophenia.

And lastly to Dandyman. Many thanks.

forgive me becasuse I've not read the entire thread but I couldn't resist responding to this.

Only last week The Argus featured the Mod (his 50th Birthday) mentioned above. At no time in the article did he mention anything about the scene being stage managed, so I'm afraid I won't trust you on this. Likewise there is no way the ugly scenes in Germany could have been a set up.

What struck me was the cowardice of the so called hooligans, repeatedly looking over their shoulders to check they had a 50 strong back up when scaring 2 Brazilian girls, or tipping a pint of beer over a German girl, or pinching a Brazilian flag. What also surprised me was the naming of some of the hoolies.

Dont know why but I cheered when an English fan got thumped when trying to act hard.

The other highlight was the arranged fight between German and Polish fans - that's the way to overcome hooliganism - give them their own stadia, sell tickets, make sure all participants are willing and let them fight it out. Eventually one firm will rise to the top and there'll be no one left to fight. They can then join the police or army on a nice fat salary and rid the streets of crime.

And the young kids on their dad's shoulders with bottles flying around, and the physiques of "England's chosen few", and the Millwall fan worried about his cap not being straight, ...............all in the name of football!

 

[DJ Leon]

MY favourite bit was where the England team entertained the mass ranks of traveling English fans with a series of laughably piss-poor on the field peformances to prove themselves the gutless overpaid overrates they are.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Well I thought the programme was fair in its treatment of the subject matter, and I speak as someone who's been to 4 out of the last 5 tournaments. Some thoughts:

1) The England thugs were almost exclusively chavs.

2) There were 246 arrests, but that figure is misleading because from what the programme showed tonight the Germans could have arrested 10 times that number if they had been so inclined.

3) The Germans were excellent hosts and those English wankers singing "My Grandad killed your Grandad" deserve to die.

 

[Brighton Breezy]

I LIKE Penguin - very Bob Hope in a terrace stylee. Looking for a bit of retro for myself, I think. Although not to extent of that CASUAL Mr Morris chap.

Sergio Tachinni is the way forward.

That and a bit of penguin and one true saxon.

FACTARAMA

 

[tinx]

OTS, Penguin, Lacoste. Carharrt will be making a comeback in a BIG way.

www.goodnorth.com currently have a 40% sale on all their items from the Spring/Summer collection.

 

[Napper]

wasnt all that really , plenty of handbags . Isolated incidents made to look + feel worse by an undercover camera that catches the noise etc and feels worse.
Def some right idiots go abroad , but same with anywhere and always will be the way. Nothing to much if you ask me

 

[British Bulldog]

Cant stand these documentary's about so called british yobs. What's the betting they're next one will be about world war 2? And how we forced the youth of the day to put on uniform and carry a gun and go over to Germany for a bloody great punch up! Maybe i'm just tired cos i've been working all night but the way I see it is, Whether your a hero as a soldier or a yob as a footie fan it's still the same! A british lad fighting abroad. Whatever the cause or whatever the reason we've done it for centuries and will for centuries to come. It's in our nature.

Right thats the end of my rant so it's time for bed. Latex Laura is waiting upstairs for me & she's got a slow puncture so i'm looking forward to her going down on me!

 

[Mr Blobby]

This article on the Guardian is a better summary of how the Police saw the tournament.
Its a write up of a London Englandfans meeting that the Police attended.

Britain offers police for Euro 2008 matches
· Use of uniformed officers at World Cup wins praise
· 25 'substantive' arrests in Germany hailed as success
Andrew Culf, sports correspondent
Monday July 31, 2006
The Guardian
Uniformed British police are likely to be deployed at future England matches and tournaments abroad following the success of the policing operation at the World Cup in Germany.
Britain will offer to provide uniformed police in Macedonia for England's Euro 2008 qualifying match in September. Negotiations will also take place over their role for the 2008 finals, which are to be staged in Austria and Switzerland.
Relatively few England supporters were arrested during Germany 2006, despite 350,000 fans making the journey to the tournament. Final figures revealed by David Bohannan, head of the football disorder unit at the Home Office, show
that out of 9,000 fans arrested in Germany, 810 cases involved England fans.A total of 599 involved preventive arrests, mainly in Stuttgart, where fans were rounded up to prevent possible disorder and released without further action. A further 120 were detained but released after questioning. Twenty-five
were arrested for offences classified as football violence and disorder, 19 for ticketing offences and 47 for other criminal matters, such as possession of drugs.
Mr Bohannan told a World Cup review forum, organised by London Englandfans:
"There were 25 substantive arrests. It is a fantastic return - and the number is likely to come down because in some of the cases the prosecutor will say there is no case to answer." Of the 810, only one had a record of previous involvement in football disorder in England and half the total had no previous criminal record.
The police said most trouble was not football-related but similar to the kind of alcohol-fuelled antisocial behaviour that occurs in most city centres in Britain on Friday and Saturday nights.
The relatively low number of arrests was partly due to the 3,583 football banning orders imposed to prevent travel abroad. Only two people who were subject to the orders, both ticket touts, tried to get into Germany, one succeeding before the tournament began.
Last week Vernon Coaker, the Home Officer minister responsible for policing, held a reception to thank the 46 uniformed officers involved in the World Cup.Superintendent Roger Evans, one of the senior officers in Germany, told the fans' forum he would travel to Macedonia before the match in Skopje on
September 6, and would offer to provide uniformed officers. He said he thought similar tactics would be used for the 2010 World Cup in South Africa, a country with little experience of large crowds, and expected London to welcome a "kaleidoscope" of police from around the world for the 2012 Olympics.

 

[Jam The Man]

Sensationalism at it's best, it wouldn't be complete without a 'save the children' type comment. So a couple of Brazilians (who were probably german by the way)walk into a big group of drunken engklish lads and wave their flags about. They got a bit of beeer thrown over them. I'm not saying it is right, but what did they expect?

Personally i don't think they should expect any kind of abuse at all.. banter is one thing, abuse is entirely different.

Regarding the 'save the children' comment, i'd like to know how it can be condonable to act like that with children around? So whose children are they... they're the children of the hooligans, who will probably see what Daddy is doing and find it rather acceptable to get in the face of a Brazilian teen girl and scream at her to 'get her tits out'

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

1. The fact that two or three 'known' hooligans got into Germany showed just how successful the police were.

2. The program should have concentrated much more on the 'drunken yob' mentality rather than the Hooligans, let face it, the only Hooligans I saw in the program was in the twenty second film of the Germany V Poland fight. Now that showed the sort of behaviour that we used to see in the '70's and 80's.
I doubt very much that any of the English fans giving it 'large' would even consider doing that. Basically we saw a lot of pissed up lads who had worked out the Police were going easy on them, that they were very unlikely to get hurt and as such acted like arseholes. I mean, you must be really 'hard' to poor beer over a ladies head, or better still pick on two Tunisian lads when there's a couple of hundred of you about.