Homophobia-The perspective of a gay fan

[Acker79]

so why is calling a black person black deemed to be racism?

“People have been told for 400 years since slavery that black people aren’t as intelligent as white.

“White players always said to me: ‘You can call me ‘a white so and so’, I don’t mind’. But that’s because society has indoctrinated us over the past 400 years to think that that’s like saying ‘you handsome so and so’. That’s why white players aren’t offended. They’re empowered. Black people aren’t empowered; 99 per cent of black individuals would be offended being called ‘a black so and so’ because we’ve had 400 years of being dehumanised.
Former Liverpool star John Barnes says society is to blame for racism problem that football just can't shift - Telegraph

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

That's a brilliant quote, Acker79. And, having just read it now, wonderfully insightful perspectives from Barnes.

 

[Bill Cassidy's tie up]

The word "black" is not offensive in itself, I'm quietly confident that most black people are quite fine with it just like you wouldn't care about being described as white (I'm assuming you are).

Where it becomes an issue is if it's used in an unpleasant context, as Terry is ALLEGED to have done. He supposedly used the term "black c*nt", which is highlighting Ferdinand's ethnicity in an attempt to insult him. Why even raise his colour? Why not just call him a c*nt if that's the way he feels? No need to bring his ethnicity into it at all.

THAT is the issue here, not the word black in a general context.

But also two days after the alleged abuse the "Black Footballers Awards" were held. I've never heard of of "White Footballers Awards" but then again that would be racistr

 

[Billy the Fish]

Interesting, I've had people chasing after me at Watford, HUddersfield, Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday, Cardiff, Southampton... To name a few, after the game, shouting "im going to smash your face in you f***ing gay ****" and similar. Are you saying that's not homophobia, or have I just been unlucky? The only thing I can possibly have to provoke this, by the way, is wear an Albion shirt.

I said something similar on the similar thread to this last month, but I don't think that is truely homophobic. None of those people know what your sexuality is, the target for their abuse is your Albion shirt, not your sexuality. The fact that they threw in the words "gay ****" in is incidental.
Had they gone down St James' street and done the same thing it would clearly be homophobic. If they had called you a "black ****", would that be considered racist? (assuming you're not black)

I think it is the same with the anti gay chants, they are abusing Albion fans, not gay people.

That said, the courts in this country would certainly take a different view.

 

[Billy the Fish]

As a teacher, it is still the most used word that pupils use to put each other down. They consider the word gay as a form of mocking each other and is treated as a big insult

The word gay used in that context has evolved to just mean bad or stupid. I remember calling things gay at primary school 20 years ago

 

[perseus]

Human Nature (an Excuse for Bad Behaviour)

I am Homo sapiens myself, and I tempted to think we may have in-bred (some of them) with Homo neantherdals. With a large DNA section in Southampton.

But the scientitsts have proven that this is a load of bollox, Some people are twats, but, alas, they are still Homo sapien.

As for gender relationship thing and sexual activity, that is none of my business.

Gaiety Theatre (Billy Shakes)

 

[perseus]

As a teacher, it is still the most used word that pupils use to put each other down. They consider the word gay as a form of mocking each other and is treated as a big insult

Now is the time for playing
Now let your hearts be gay
List what your captain is saying
While off the field of play

I think as a teacher you should call OFFSIDE or PENALTY!

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

But also two days after the alleged abuse the "Black Footballers Awards" were held. I've never heard of of "White Footballers Awards" but then again that would be racistr

I take it you are referring to the Black List Awards, an event to 'celebrate the contribution of the black community across all areas of football.' Nothing racist about that as nothing about it tries to make out that black players are superior to white players because of their skin colour.

The reason there is no white equivalent is mainly because the majority of football players in this country are white. White footballers experience being in a majority everyday at work and wouldn't stand to gain from such an event as a group that experiences being a minority in their profession most days of the year.

To give another example, one outside football, I work in a children's nursery and am one of the few men that does so in Brighton & Hove (roughly 1-2% of nursery workers nationally are men). It can be quite an isolating experience at times (particularly as men and women often gave very different sensibilities around children) and I have created events partly to get together with other men who also work in nurseries and primary schools, to share and validate each other's experiences, perspectives etc and to encourage more men to get into working with children. Organising an event for men (who are in a minority in their workplace) doesn't make it anti-women. Similarly, organising an event just for women who work with children is mainly superfluous as they are already in the majority in the workplace and experience commonality every day.

 

[pastafarian]

But also two days after the alleged abuse the "Black Footballers Awards" were held.

surely you are just making that up

 

[happyseagull]

Good posts here...wouldn't read too much into what opposition fans sing..over the years the North stand has continually taunted scousers for having no jobs, derby for being sheep shaggers, diry northern bastards for being north of the watford gap...it's all pointless!

 

[Mr Burns]

They are public information videos to help people understand what makes someone gay

 

[magoo]

I'll be glad when the gay jibes are banned altogether simply because they're so f***ing predictable and tedious.

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

I wonder if actually those who are offended by such chanting are offended because they dont want to be labelled 'gay'. Its not the gay community at all who are offended, şit is the 'straight' community. Of course, then begs the questions whether those who are offended are as homophobic (or more so) than the people dıoing the chanting?

The fact that one is being discriminated from another is worthy of condemnation in a perfect world but this world is not black and white... it is grey and condemnation is in the ears of the hearer.

Respect to you FH for coming out (no pun) and giving a perspective that rarely gets heard on NSC.

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

It's fine, can't feel any hatred in that. If you really wanted to put the fear of god into some of them just shout 'He's behind you....'

Chant along the lines of.... 'What's that coming over the hill.... It's my boyfriend, it's my boyfriend!' ?

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

I think it would fit to "Come and Join us".

Seriously, thought provoking thread - well done!

Now you have given yourself away!!! You are NOT Norman Potting!!

 

[BadFish]

I'll be glad when the gay jibes are banned altogether simply because they're so f***ing predictable and tedious.

But I think that is would be replaced by some other boring stereotype. Welsh being sheepshaggers, scousers being thieves, northerners being thick, Yorkshiremen/Scots being tight, Poms not washing, Aussie having no class, the list is long and the jokes have been doing the rounds for decades and will continue to. If you remove one stereotype another will take it's place. Look at us on here with our poll about whether Palace are Nigels or Pikies as stereotypes they are miles apart but we don't know which one to use.

I still get called a pommy bastard/wanker/**** over here and i don't even bother with it cos I've heard it so many times. If I am ****/wanker/bastard can't I be my own one instead of being attached to all the other *****/wankers/bastards who used to live in England?

As for the Homophobic thing I think the op is spot on it depends on how word are used and the intend of the word rather than the actual language. I have been called a 'pom' with the word dripping with hatred, far more than the fella could have had for me (as he hardly new me) so i guess he really hated poms. I have also had it used with affection and respect.

 

[Nibble]

As an openly gay Albion fan-there are a few, as indeed there are in all clubs, I have finally felt the need to wade into this 'homophobia' debate as some responses on here are spot on and others ignorant and at worst homophobic themselves.

I have experienced homophobia. I have attended many Albion football matches. The previous two sentences are rarely linked though. I have not really experienced any homophobia at Albion games from the opposition supporters.

Let me define what I regard as 'homophobia' and give it perspective. The very word is a bad interpretation of the greek that forms it, as indeed is many of the new words the tabloids have entered into the common language. This makes it an abused catch all phrase which I will try to bring an understanding to by raising what is relevant in terms of what should be allowed in a civil society and what shouldn't.

Homophobia is hatred, it is condemnation, it is discrimination and is delivered through attitudes more than words. There are words that have come to spearhead its thrust such as 'faggot' (which is freely used on this forum) and some others which have a nasty historical significance from the days when gay people in this country experienced really homophobic hate (those two words are linked and important to my next paragraph).

When assessing the 'homophobic' chants of opposition fans we should ask which category they fall in. Are they hatred/deeply offensive? ('Faggots'. 'HIV,HIV' (Portsmouth 1990-very upsetting)) Are they an assertion against the alpha males sexual identity? or are they just annoying? If they fall into the category of the last two questions they are not homophobic.

I salute those Albion fans who have responded with their own witty tunes that totally emasculate the oppositions fans ultimate objective which is not to incite hatred (with the occasional exception) but to goad and jest to ferment a tribal atmosphere.

I do not salute those who complain at the drop of the hat in the same way as Jason Donovan complained about a magazine that suggested he was gay and ended up looking the most foolish as he appeared, if anything, to be the homophobe. (Which he wasn't and isn't-like many of those fans).

Please do not dilute hatred against gay people just because you are irritated by a few chants personally and not on behalf of homosexuals. As someone pointed out, when asked if their boyfriend knew they were here a gay person would have just a yes or no response. When called a faggot or a queer, with the historical venom associated with it, a gay person would get very upset.

It was only at Fratton Park in 1990 that I got really upset.

Lets kick real hatred out of sport, but not make a mockery of this objective by diluting its interpretation.

Gay

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The word "black" is not offensive in itself, I'm quietly confident that most black people are quite fine with it just like you wouldn't care about being described as white (I'm assuming you are).

Where it becomes an issue is if it's used in an unpleasant context, as Terry is ALLEGED to have done. He supposedly used the term "black c*nt", which is highlighting Ferdinand's ethnicity in an attempt to insult him. Why even raise his colour? Why not just call him a c*nt if that's the way he feels? No need to bring his ethnicity into it at all.

THAT is the issue here, not the word black in a general context.

Totally agree. It's context and people which are offensive. Words are just words at the end of the day. I wish people will learn what context and literal mean. Or maybe they do know the difference and hid behind them?

Another example is my wheelchair bound father. On occasion he has followed up a glaring Albion miss with 'even I could score that.' No issue here, but I would frown if a stranger turned to my father and said asked if he could score that one.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It is still the ultimate insult so I cant see it being eradicated from football and lads banter

Ultimate insult? FFS. Someone once called me a Tory on here.

 

[glasfryn]

I have like most people been around gay people and even here in rural Wales we have gay people living in the village (no jokes please) we have a gay relative and a long time friend of mine was gay I say was because he is no longer with us the initial post was a brave act as was the coming out of a person I really did not like a lot Gareth Thomas Welsh Rugby international but I see him in a different light what he did took some serious backbone an act which you have to respect IMHO there is only one way to look at this same people just a different sexual preference
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