Homophobia and football

[Buzzer]

As Doris Day said of ROCK Hudson...."He's not quite the ROCK you think he is"

I think the Devil will be skating to work when a sizable section of Football fans stop being homophobic.

I'll bet that there are some very respectable upright blokes among opposition fans, and among our own fans who join in with all sorts of unpleasant chanting about Northerners beating up their wives etc.,who vigourously join in with the Boyfriend stuff when we play them.

Maybe but is the point that we are chucking meaningless chants at Norwich fans/Northerners because a) the vast majority don't sleep with sisters/beat their missus and b) those things are intrinsically bad? What I mean is that they are meaningless because they don't actually do those things. We know it and so do they.

Here we are: a bunch of straight (ish) blokes going on about "doesn't bother me"/"only banter" but if you'd had a lifetime of society telling you that your sexuality was immoral or wrong and something to be mocked then I may just take the abuse a bit more seriously than I do.

 

[little al]

A dinosaur speaks.

The bloke straightens his hair. It's the same as brushing. What's the prob?

Fool.

 

[Buzzer]

Fool.

Why?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

It's all about getting in first,

Are you sure you don't want to re-phrase that ?

 

[pork pie]

Hi all,

I am currently writing an article on homphobia in football and in particular on the terraces. I am obviously putting a fair amount of emphasis on Brighton as it gains more homophobic chanting than other clubs. I am in discussions with the Stonewall group on this who are working hard to raise awareness of the issue.

Anyway, I would like some thoughts and quotes from Brighton fans on the issue. Do you find the chanting offensive or not? Should fans be ejected from the ground or not? Is it as bad as racism on the terraces or not?

I would also be keen to chat to any gay fans on this site (PM me if you wish).

Also, are there any confirmed gay footballers? I know the rumours about Le Saux (false), Campbell, Ljundberg etc but are there any openly gay players?

Honest and serious responses please, if you are used in the article then of course I will quote you and you will have your name in black and white

As a Brighton fan I do find all the other teams chants about "does you boyfriend know you are hear" etc deeply offensive. I am also fed-up with the idiots who support Brighton who think that it is fun to be camp.

I have a strong dislike of poofs, and do not like to think that those who live in "camptown" are giving all Brighton supporters such a bad name. It is not funny!

 

[Pantani]

As a Brighton fan I do find all the other teams chants about "does you boyfriend know you are hear" etc deeply offensive. I am also fed-up with the idiots who support Brighton who think that it is fun to be camp.

I have a strong dislike of poofs, and do not like to think that those who live in "camptown" are giving all Brighton supporters such a bad name. It is not funny!

No it is not funny, but your post is.

 

[Wilko]

As a Brighton fan I do find all the other teams chants about "does you boyfriend know you are hear" etc deeply offensive. I am also fed-up with the idiots who support Brighton who think that it is fun to be camp.

I have a strong dislike of poofs, and do not like to think that those who live in "camptown" are giving all Brighton supporters such a bad name. It is not funny!

If you dislike 'poofs' then why do you find homophobia offensive?

 

[aviaviavioioioi]

I don't think you can ever make football chants "PC" and i would hate it if they did.

Brighton fans gets banter or abuse about "all people from brighton are gay" type of shit shouted at them. Tottenham fans get abuse saying their all Jews, Millwall and Pompey get the Chav abuse, Celtic get anti-Irish chants Rangers get anti-prod abuse from Celtic fans, and so on.

Mendoza is spot-on IMO the best way is to laugh it off and not react. If Peter Thatchall started getting all annoyed and started all his Gay Power type stuff it would really make things worse.

 

[Napper]

It's not offensive but it is a hell of an insult which can't really be topped

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

I agree with what you are saying, I just wonder why society cringes with awkwardness at the slightest suggestion of the word 'black' but will quite happily accept 40,000 voices singing 'Do you take it up the arse'?

Just because anti black chanting has (rightly) been banned it doesn't follow that racism has gone away...people just know that they will instantly be nicked or beaten up if they start it at a match (unless you support Torquay allegedly), It used to be OK to get pissed and drive the car home until society changed its view of acceptable behaviour, the same thing happened with racism at football...it just was forced underground.

Anti Gay chanting is still seen as "funny" by many fans but I doubt that those same fans would march up to a Gay person and shout abuse at their face..oh hang on, some would..but then those same characters would probably shout paki or Coon at an ethnic person..what I mean is that MOST would never use this type of language outside of the matchday situation.

We'll stop being Gay when they stop Shagging Sheep,assaulting their wives, and eating out of bins I suppose.

 

[matt]

Also, are there any confirmed gay footballers? I know the rumours about Le Saux (false), Campbell, Ljundberg etc but are there any openly gay players?

Justin Fashanu - wouldn't rate your chances of getting an interview though...

I wonder if the fact that many of today's yoof use the word "gay" where ten years ago we would have said "shit" (e.g "that Crystal Palace shirt is well GAY"), will have any effect on what is seen as acceptable to say in a few years time.

 

[Danny-Boy]

John O'Shea and Dean Ashton are gay.

I don't find it offensive at all, I find it funny, however I probably would be offended if I was actually gay.

Is that why Ashton has announced his retirement? Or has he waited until his retirement to "come out" like certain other sports players recently?

Man United with a gay player? I'd like proper confirmation of that - Man City fans would tear O'Shea to shreds. I heard a lot of ugly stories over Steve Coppell when he stayed very briefly at Maine Road, also involving a former Brighton player....

 

[Buzzer]

I don't think you can ever make football chants "PC" and i would hate it if they did.

Brighton fans gets banter or abuse about "all people from brighton are gay" type of shit shouted at them. Tottenham fans get abuse saying their all Jews, Millwall and Pompey get the Chav abuse, Celtic get anti-Irish chants Rangers get anti-prod abuse from Celtic fans, and so on.

Mendoza is spot-on IMO the best way is to laugh it off and not react. If Peter Thatchall started getting all annoyed and started all his Gay Power type stuff it would really make things worse.

But....we laugh it off because it's not true and away from footie it's not something we carry around with us. A few gay mates of mine are put off going to footie because of the chanting and the fact that something they have no control over is used as a term of abuse. Footie does not welcome gay fans. Brighton and Hove Albion do sod all about it at home games as does the rest of footie.

These arguments about un-PC chanting are red herrings. The same thing was said about racist chants 30 odd years ago and now it just is not tolerated. The same can and should happen about homophobic chanting.

 

[bathseagull]

Interesting that straight people on here don't find homophobic abuse offensive - does the same therefore apply to white people not finding racist abuse offensive or able-bodied people not finding abuse based on a person's disability offensive?

 

[Danny-Boy]

Just because anti black chanting has (rightly) been banned it doesn't follow that racism has gone away...people just know that they will instantly be nicked or beaten up if they start it at a match (unless you support Torquay allegedly), It used to be OK to get pissed and drive the car home until society changed its view of acceptable behaviour, the same thing happened with racism at football...it just was forced underground.

Anti Gay chanting is still seen as "funny" by many fans but I doubt that those same fans would march up to a Gay person and shout abuse at their face..oh hang on, some would..but then those same characters would probably shout paki or Coon at an ethnic person..what I mean is that MOST would never use this type of language outside of the matchday situation.

We'll stop being Gay when they stop Shagging Sheep and assaulting their wives and eating out of bins I suppose.

Am I the only person who is happy at the thought of "Four Pooves and a Piano" actually being laid off (ooh-err Mrs.) in the near future?

Mind you if Wossi gets a job at C4 (he was on a quiz show in a team with Russell Brand on C4 a few days ago) I'm sure the Pooves could find a slot with him...

 

[Mr Banana]

I don't want to divert this thread from turning into a binfest, but could someone please clarify where my manly status would stand if I straightened my hair and wore guyliner because my girlfriend asked me to?

 

[Buzzer]

I don't want to divert this thread from turning into a binfest, but could someone please clarify where my manly status would stand if I straightened my hair and wore guyliner because my girlfriend asked me to?

What make of straighteners?

 

[Mr Banana]

What make of straighteners?

I haven't actually got them in my bag today but I'm pretty sure they're the £5 ones I bought at Argos. If I use hers they're GHDs apparently (have I got that right?)

Thanks in advance

 

[pork pie]

If you dislike 'poofs' then why do you find homophobia offensive?

I find calling Brighton fans poofs offensive. The vast majority of us are not, and do not like the Club being associated with such people.

I can remember the days when if there were no away fans to fight after a night game, it was a regular thing to trash the Spotty Dog pub which used to be full of them when they first started taking over Brighton.

 

[Brovion]

Maybe but is the point that we are chucking meaningless chants at Norwich fans/Northerners because a) the vast majority don't sleep with sisters/beat their missus and b) those things are intrinsically bad? What I mean is that they are meaningless because they don't actually do those things. We know it and so do they.

Here we are: a bunch of straight (ish) blokes going on about "doesn't bother me"/"only banter" but if you'd had a lifetime of society telling you that your sexuality was immoral or wrong and something to be mocked then I may just take the abuse a bit more seriously than I do.

That is actually a very good point. I was going to post something on the lines of "doesn't worry me, just a laugh innit?"- but then I'm straight. God I even think blokes with manbags are a bit 'suspect'.

Like you say we often use negative terms to abuse other fans: Cardiff fans are all sheepshaggers, scousers are all thieves, West Country / East Anglians are all inbred, Geordies are thick, etc. I can see how lumping 'Brighton fans are all gay' in with all that could enforce the view that homosexuality and sheepshagging are one and the same - just things to be used as terms of abuse. Another club with a similar stereotype is Spurs: the Yids. Again Jewish people might not like the derogatory references to their religion.

That said if you asked would I want the authorities to clamp down on homophobic chanting I'd probably answer 'no'. Personally I think this 'eggshell' culture of stepping carefully trying not to give offence in thought word and deed to absolutely every group and sub-group in Britain today has gone too far. We've actually become a very intolerant country now which wasn't the aim.