Harty's Phone In Thread (18/02/06)

[vulture]

Unlikely.

I'm inclined to believe the guy on this thread who talks with Mark McGhee on a regular basis, more than those who have never spoken with either the manager or the Chairman.

 

[BensGrandad]

Harty was more outspoken tonight than I've ever heard him. When HE comes on and says:-

We're not being told the full picture.
"Where's the Virgo and Harding money.
Is it going into the Black Hole called Falmer?
Dk's just walked past and doesn't want to speak despite several invitations.
He's fed up with people talking crap about coming straight back up.
Then we'll be being told about Hereford etc.
2 of our highest earnerers are out on loan, but nothing's coming back in.
It's not MM's fault that we haven't addressed the striker problem, it's DK's + the window is closed (loans aside).
He doesn't want us to go down as the financial implications will be crippling",

you have to either assume something's seriously wrong behind the scenes or he's been plied with drinks from Ben's Grandad or both.


I've been very critical of Harty's over pro Albion stance in the past, but full marks to him tonight for the reality check that sees him off the fence in a really big way. Common sense the way forward rather than blinded by the Knight (sainthood still pending IMO, but even saints are fallible).

I would go as far as to say that we are not being told the full facts but fed bull...t and that the financial situation is worse than we are lead to believe.

I am not being critical of anybody but there are 2 questions that I would like answered by Dick Knight or Martin Perry:

1. Do you think relegation will be a disaster in terms of revenue coming in?

2. What is the total expenditure so far on Falmer?

'you have to either assume something's seriously wrong behind the scenes or he's been plied with drinks from Ben's Grandad or both'.


Forgot to add the last part of the above is not true, if anybody knows me I don't give away drinks not even to highly exalted Btrighton fans/ Phone In hosts.

 

[DJ Leon]

I would go as far as to say that we are not being told the full facts but fed bull...t and that the financial situation is worse than we are lead to believe.

I am not being critical of anybody but there are 2 questions that I would like answered by Dick Knight or Martin Perry:

1. Do you think relegation will be a disaster in terms of revenue coming in?

2. What is the total expenditure so far on Falmer?

'you have to either assume something's seriously wrong behind the scenes or he's been plied with drinks from Ben's Grandad or both'.


Forgot to add the last part of the above is not true, if anybody knows me I don't give away drinks not even to highly exalted Btrighton fans/ Phone In hosts.

So you're not being critical of anyone, but you think we're being fed bullshit?

I'm sure you could get an answer to both your questions, but neither answer would prove anything. I mean take your first question - would it be a disaster financially to go down? I imagine the answer is - disaster might be a bit strong, but it certainly wouldn't be good. What would be a disaster is over-reaching financially now to get in players who could still go down with us and who we would find it even harder to pay in a lower division - so what would that tell you? It would tell you that the board have COMMON SENSE. That's it.

All this conspiracy theory bullshit is really getting on my nerves. For one moment try imaginging that running a football is not a complete doddle and then stretch your imagination to possibly conceive that the man that has done a near faultless job so far as Chairman, might still be doing a very good job. Not hard is it?

 

[BensGrandad]

All this conspiracy theory bullshit is really getting on my nerves.

Who has suggested a 'conspiracy'?

If the board do not consider that it will be a financial disaster to get relegated it is safe to put the ball on the other foot and assume that they are not particularly over concerned either way.

We are constantly told we cannot bring in players because of the financial situation and the cost of Falmer. Simple question with no hidden agenda, what is the cost of Falmer so far is it £250k or £3m or even more. I am sure thast somebody can put a fairly accurate estimation on this figure.

Do we not have a right to know?

 

[Titanic]

Do we not have a right to know?

No, no we don't have a RIGHT to know.

 

[London Irish]

If the board do not consider that it will be a financial disaster to get relegated it is safe to put the ball on the other foot and assume that they are not particularly over concerned either way.

So all of us who correctly believe relegation will be a financial setback rather than your preposterous claim that it will be a "disaster" are not concerned about staying in tier 2? This idiotic and insulting logic is beneath contempt. The club have survived 6 of the last eight-and-a-half years in tiers 3 and 4 and you need to explain why the management who guided us safely and successfully through that would have a problem doing so for another year in tier 3.

Re. your question about Falmer costs, I would imagine if you pose a polite, non-aggressive question in Ask the Club you will get a reply. It is a simple matter of taking the total given out at the time of the Alive and Kicking appeal, which was a few million, and adding the costs of the reopened inquiry, which were quite a few hundred thousand, and then adding the latest ongoing costs of defending the Lewes appeal. These figures may already be in the public domain.

 

[Harty]

If I offended anybody I apologise, however I'm really pissed off because with proper investment we could have easily avoided relegation.
I still hang on to the hope that we just might get out of it, but cannot accept this school of thought from the lemming posse that the drop from the Championship won't be a bad thing.
The post 1999 Withdean honeymoon is well and truly over, Falmer won't be built till at least till late 2008/09 maybe 2009/10, if the Albion are mid table or below in League One then crowds of 4,000-4,500 will be a distinct possibility.
As for Dick Knight, on my kids lives I can state I have no hidden agenda, he is a good man both in life and in football, however as an Albion fan long before he became chairman and god willing one long after he has gone, I, like thousands of other Albion fans still require answers and don't like being fobbed off with the accolytes banging on about remember Hereford and look how far we've come.
If we dont get things sorted it could yet be a case of 'look how far we fell...again'

 

[1066gull]

There is enough money to buy a six-figure player. FACT.

And I maybe deluding myself as you would say Harty, but I think we have a great chance of bouncing back providing on three things;

- We manage to hold on to our current squad
- We get at least one effective target man
- Magoo either gets a grip of himself or we get a new manager as 6 wins in 48 league games is not a good record.

 

[Les Biehn]

Its simple as they have left it to late. We may have a very slim chance of staying up if we get a proven goal scorer. However I think DK has held off for fear of the financial implications of us going down and that new signing could be the straw that breaks the camels back should relegation become a reality.

 

[1066gull]

With all the loans going out, it looks like were saving as much money to bring in one, two or even three players to bid for promotion.

I honestly think getting promotion if we go down is easier than us staying up. If we do go down, and then bounce back up, we will knwo how to stay up as we done that last season.

By then we will have Falmer and we should hopefully well and trully established ourselves in this league.

 

[Porky]

So many posts pick out individual players as beating the opposition hands down. But you get three points only when you get the ball in the net more times than the opponent gets it in yours.
And despite what Lord B says, I dont't think you have to have a believable post just because you have spoken with MM or DK.
One could say that as I live across the pond I sould have no right to a critique. Howevere my opinions are not overned by the roar of the crowd from a certain block, or how nice looking a player is, but the cold hard words of the live text commentary. I said in the wee that if we didn't have an EFFECTIVE striker by this Saturday, we were doomed.
Is MM now going to say that we beat Watford in the last 45 mnutes as per the Leicsester game.
Nuff said. I will now wait for the flaming.

 

[London Irish]

If I offended anybody I apologise, however I'm really pissed off because with proper investment we could have easily avoided relegation.
I still hang on to the hope that we just might get out of it, but cannot accept this school of thought from the lemming posse that the drop from the Championship won't be a bad thing.
The post 1999 Withdean honeymoon is well and truly over, Falmer won't be built till at least till late 2008/09 maybe 2009/10, if the Albion are mid table or below in League One then crowds of 4,000-4,500 will be a distinct possibility.
As for Dick Knight, on my kids lives I can state I have no hidden agenda, he is a good man both in life and in football, however as an Albion fan long before he became chairman and god willing one long after he has gone, I, like thousands of other Albion fans still require answers and don't like being fobbed off with the accolytes banging on about remember Hereford and look how far we've come.
If we dont get things sorted it could yet be a case of 'look how far we fell...again'

Point 1: We're all pissed off we're in the bottom 3. You have no monopoly on that. Be careful never to, however unconsciously, imply that other Brighton fans don't care as much as you about that situation.

Point 2: You should stop attacking a section of the Albion fan base as "lemmings". We all know that's a personal attack in particular on a group of people around the Supporters Club who you have strong disagreements with on the extent of our financial problems if we drop to tier 3 and the priority they give to a successful Falmer stadium outcome rather than staying in tier 2. The thing is, you are not a fanzine writer as in the past or an internet hothead like the many on here (including me) who can mouth off with no real responsibility, you are the host of the fans' phone-in and I think that very high-profile role comes with a higher duty to promote a constructive and non-abusive debate between all sections of fans' opinion. "Lemmings" is out of order, no matter how strongly you disagree with your fellow Albion fans, they are genuine, loyal people and deserve more respect from you on the phone-in than playground stuff like that.

Point 3: The reason why you get regularly accused, and maybe unfairly, of having an agenda against Dick Knight is because you don't help yourself in being so very vague and unfocused in your criticisms, so no one really has a clue what you are about and where you are coming from. What "answers" do you want? What questions are you even asking? With regards to the financial support that Dick Knight is offering Mark McGhee, that was the subject of a lead back page story in the Argus today thanks to a long Mark McGhee interview. A quote by McGhee from that on the question of money for a loan player: "He (Dick Knight) has said that, if we could find the right one, either on loan or for some sort of fee, then he would find it." If the Argus journalists can get that interview and ask those questions, why can't the journalists of BBC SCR?


One last thing, which is framing the terms of a constructive debate about the financial support the club can now give Mark McGhee in these last 11 games. We know we have some money to spend given the eleventh-hour collapse of the six-figure Tom Brighton deal, whether that measures to your standards of "proper investment" I don't know. But no club is ever going to say how much, because this is commercially sensitive information that could influence future deals. McGhee has been looking high and low for a player, but we know given how often the six-figure Turienzo deal is thrown back in the face of Knight and McGhee, just how vital it is that we get the right player that will be definitely be better than what we have and not a gamble, panicky buy. That is the great, overwhelming pressure the club is under. Sometimes when I hear fans criticise Dick Knight, I say to myself, would they ever be man enough to put themselves under the same crushing pressure that Dick Knight has voluntarily put himself under these past ten years?

 

[bhaexpress]

Point 1: We're all pissed off we're in the bottom 3. You have no monopoly on that. Be careful never to, however unconsciously, imply that other Brighton fans don't care as much as you about that situation.

Point 2: You should stop attacking a section of the Albion fan base as "lemmings". We all know that's a personal attack in particular on a group of people around the Supporters Club who you have strong disagreements with on the extent of our financial problems if we drop to tier 3 and the priority they give to a successful Falmer stadium outcome rather than staying in tier 2. The thing is, you are not a fanzine writer as in the past or an internet hothead like the many on here (including me) who can mouth off with no real responsibility, you are the host of the fans' phone-in and I think that very high-profile role comes with a higher duty to promote a constructive and non-abusive debate between all sections of fans' opinion. "Lemmings" is out of order, no matter how strongly you disagree with your fellow Albion fans, they are genuine, loyal people and deserve more respect from you on the phone-in than playground stuff like that.

Point 3: The reason why you get regularly accused, and maybe unfairly, of having an agenda against Dick Knight is because you don't help yourself in being so very vague and unfocused in your criticisms, so no one really has a clue what you are about and where you are coming from. What "answers" do you want? What questions are you even asking? With regards to the financial support that Dick Knight is offering Mark McGhee, that was the subject of a lead back page story in the Argus today thanks to a long Mark McGhee interview. A quote by McGhee from that on the question of money for a loan player: "He (Dick Knight) has said that, if we could find the right one, either on loan or for some sort of fee, then he would find it." If the Argus journalists can get that interview and ask those questions, why can't the journalists of BBC SCR?


One last thing, which is framing the terms of a constructive debate about the financial support the club can now give Mark McGhee in these last 11 games. We know we have some money to spend given the eleventh-hour collapse of the six-figure Tom Brighton deal, whether that measures to your standards of "proper investment" I don't know. But no club is ever going to say how much, because this is commercially sensitive information that could influence future deals. McGhee has been looking high and low for a player, but we know given how often the six-figure Turienzo deal is thrown back in the face of Knight and McGhee, just how vital it is that we get the right player that will be definitely be better than what we have and not a gamble, panicky buy. That is the great, overwhelming pressure the club is under. Sometimes when I hear fans criticise Dick Knight, I say to myself, would they ever be man enough to put themselves under the same crushing pressure that Dick Knight has voluntarily put himself under these past ten years?

 

[Yorkie]

I agree.
That is a good common sense posting by LI.
I know when passions run high that common sense doesn't always prevail and people would prefer to believe rumours and gossip but the cold hard facts remain.

 

[Row Z Creased Shirt]

I shan't quote LI's last post in full, but I will say absolutely spot on.

Nevemind harty 'despairing' on the phone-in about our current situation, what about DK despairing at this persistant and petty minded criticism when he is doing his damndest to keep this club afloat.

The people who need the reality check are the stuck record moaners who obviously have no conception of what a difficult job running and managing Brighton and Hove Albion really is.

Despite everything that has happened in the last 10 years, we have won two championship titles and secured a historic play-off final victory in front of over 70,000 people. And yet the people who have stewarded us to this great success are butt of endless criticism.

Why should DK go on harty's show to answer questions like where's the money gone, when we all know the answers and many simply choose not to believe them because of their own anti DK and MM opinions.

I've had it with constant whining from people who simply refuse to accept the reality of our situation.

See you all at crewe. The fight back starts there.

 

[Jim D]

Row Z - spot on, totally agree. But then of course I would - I'm a lemming. Luckily there aren't many cliffs where I am.

 

[Yorkie]

I shan't quote LI's last post in full, but I will say absolutely spot on.

Nevemind harty 'despairing' on the phone-in about our current situation, what about DK despairing at this persistant and petty minded criticism when he is doing his damndest to keep this club afloat.

The people who need the reality check are the stuck record moaners who obviously have no conception of what a difficult job running and managing Brighton and Hove Albion really is.

Despite everything that has happened in the last 10 years, we have won two championship titles and secured a historic play-off final victory in front of over 70,000 people. And yet the people who have stewarded us to this great success are butt of endless criticism.

Why should DK go on harty's show to answer questions like where's the money gone, when we all know the answers and many simply choose not to believe them because of their own anti DK and MM opinions.

I've had it with constant whining from people who simply refuse to accept the reality of our situation.

See you all at crewe. The fight back starts there.

 

[Zebedee]

What has happened to the money that we got for Leon Knight? Wouldn't that pay the wages of a premiership reserve striker for the rest of the season, assuming we could persuade one to play for us? Perhaps the black hole has swallowed that up as well.

 

[Gritt23]

Harty, as one of the "lemmings" you refer to, perhaps I can explain my take on the Falmer / Staying Up bit that you so regularly criticise.

If we have a pot of money to spend, as part of our very finite finances, should we?

a. Spend it all on trying to stay up, or
b. Ensure we have enough to successfully fight the JR and then (attempt to) spend what is left on trying to stay in this division.

Personally, I believe in b). But that's not to say I'm right, however, I wish you'd listen beyond someone saying "Falmer is the most important ..." before you start laying into them, or dismissing their opinion.


Secondly, you said last night about "Where has the money gone from Virgo, Harding ..." and then referred to the bottomless pit of Falmer, mentioning a figure of £3m spend to date. Why do you never ask yourself "Where has that £3m come from?" The fact that this board has managed to finance that sort of expenditure without leaving the team mid-table League 2, is a fantastic achievement in my book. We can't just dismiss that.

 

[ROSM]

I would go as far as to say that we are not being told the full facts but fed bull...t and that the financial situation is worse than we are lead to believe.

I am not being critical of anybody but there are 2 questions that I would like answered by Dick Knight or Martin Perry:

1. Do you think relegation will be a disaster in terms of revenue coming in?

2. What is the total expenditure so far on Falmer?

'you have to either assume something's seriously wrong behind the scenes or he's been plied with drinks from Ben's Grandad or both'.


Forgot to add the last part of the above is not true, if anybody knows me I don't give away drinks not even to highly exalted Btrighton fans/ Phone In hosts.

BG - who has ever (since bellotti and archer) misled the supporters on the state of the clubs finances? They are parlous end of story!

Relegation will see a reduction in TV income and away supporter attendances. So that is a serious issue - is it a disaster?

As for the falmer expenditure - if you read the argus, the accounts or indeed the club website you will see that costs of planning application, 3 public enquiries and now the judicial review are in excess of £2.5m and growing. Has anybody kept that from you are are you so bitter and twisted that despite reading it you choose to ignore it and make up your own world of digs and innuendo?