Harty's Phone In Thread (18/02/06)

[Ernest]

The one fact we all seem to agree on is without a CF we will be relegated. I think that the Falmer issue is being used as a bit of a smokescreen. Any discussion of the playing side is submerged in the Falmer issue.

I for one do not buy into this we can't get a striker because they don't want to play at Withdean.

A loan signing is not going to care, about our short term situation, he is going to care about his own career. A chance to play 1st team football in the Championship is what he is going to care about.

What I would really like to know is who we have tried for and why it didn't happen. I am not anti Knight or McGhee, but I am anti settling for relegation in February!

We have been told that, we have tried for various players, we have also been told by McGhee, that February was the crucial month of our season. Here we are most of the way through it with a number of players shipped out and with no new signings coming in.

We have a 'must win' game on Saturday and we need a forward before it.

The only real information we have had is that we tried to buy Tom Brighton. The club are quick enough to ask our help over Falmer and we are quick enough to give it. I for one will accept no signing if we are skint, I will accept relegation for the greater good too. What I won't accept is being kept in the dark about the situation.

We as Albion supporters have perhaps, more than any other club in the country earned the right to honesty and communication from the board and manager.

If its bad then so be it, but for Christs sake tell us what's going on. If you've fallen out with Harty, Dick, then find another way, but tell us what's going on.

From the people, sitting around me in F block, there are going to be an awful lot of empty seats around me next season, if something isn't done, the honeymoon of returning to Brighton is well and truly over...

So true, so true

 

[BensGrandad]

That might explain where up until recently we've had a crap or non existent youth scheme.

Nobody has ever disputed that. The manager/board at the time decide on the way forward and this is one that Dick Knight got right 100%.

 

[the full harris]

Harty says MM is in the top Albion 3 managers

He's clearly the best

How many managers have you seen manage us?

 

[Yorkie]

bit you are the man who claimed the board never wanted us to get promoted (twice) and we did both times. Your summising has been singularly incorrect in the past.

When we were relegated last time, I was told by two current squad members that the players took an average decrease of 20% in their wages (based on clauses in their contracts). Are there the same clauses now?

Also, historically, albion fans are fickle and will support a winning team no matter what league. So relegation in itself doesn't lead to a crowd reduction - but relation and subsequent further under achieveing would!

I agree that a striker is what we need (obvious since august) but the failure to find one who will provide a return on the money spent is down to a number of factors and at the moment, McGhee isn't citing lack of support from the board as one of them.

Good post. It is true about the players taking a wage cut when relegated under Coppell.

 

[London Irish]

LI so eloquently in his usual waffle saying absolutly nothing, suggests that the figures for expenditure are free and available and that every body knows that the original A & K fund gave 'few' million few being in excess of 3 plus the cost of LDC latest and then quotes £2.5m which one is correct they can't both be. Which is exactly what I am asking.

Well, ask it then!

I see that although you've made one unscheduled appearance on Ask the Club , you haven't actually ASKED about the Falmer total expenditure. Do so, old chap, I don't think the figures will be that difficult to collate.

Can you also source some of the figures you are putting on NSC. Am I understanding you right that you said we would lose a quarter of our playing budget if we go down one tier? I take it then you know the total revenue that tier 2 clubs get from TV and tier 3 clubs get? And you know our current playing budget (approx)? If so, post these figures on here and put your authorative source down so your claim has some independent credibility.

Also you make a guess at the drop of away support income. How have you arrived at that estimates? Have you compared the figures of season 2003-4, with 2004-5 and 2005-6. What is your method? I am really hoping it is not just complete half-cocked guesswork, that you have some ACTUAL real figures?

 

[London Irish]

What does a good Premiership striker earn a week considering Man City have just offered Joey Barton double to take his wage to £28k per week and he is an up and coming star, but granted not a striker. Would you agree that £12k per week should get a fairly good striker.

10 games remaining so 10x 12 = 120k plus an attacking midfielder on the same = £240k and as MM says, and we all saw
yesterday, we are 2 players off of a reasonable side. Those players would virtually guarantee our survival for £240 k as opposed to losing £1m next season .

You are in absolute dreamland if you think we could afford to spunk a quarter of a million on two players for just three months, when one or both could get injured in their first week here?

How will that help us to say up next season, for example?

You just can't look beyond the end of your nose, can you? We have to build a team that can stay up not just this year but the next one too, and the one after that.

Spunking that amount of money in 3-month bursts is the sure-fire not only to get relegated but also to put the club in the hands of the receivers.

12k a week

 

[Yorkie]

Trevor Benjamin was on 17K a week at Leicester when we had him on loan.

 

[Bromley shrimp]

The one fact we all seem to agree on is without a CF we will be relegated. I think that the Falmer issue is being used as a bit of a smokescreen. Any discussion of the playing side is submerged in the Falmer issue.

I for one do not buy into this we can't get a striker because they don't want to play at Withdean.

A loan signing is not going to care, about our short term situation, he is going to care about his own career. A chance to play 1st team football in the Championship is what he is going to care about.

What I would really like to know is who we have tried for and why it didn't happen. I am not anti Knight or McGhee, but I am anti settling for relegation in February!

We have been told that, we have tried for various players, we have also been told by McGhee, that February was the crucial month of our season. Here we are most of the way through it with a number of players shipped out and with no new signings coming in.

We have a 'must win' game on Saturday and we need a forward before it.

The only real information we have had is that we tried to buy Tom Brighton. The club are quick enough to ask our help over Falmer and we are quick enough to give it. I for one will accept no signing if we are skint, I will accept relegation for the greater good too. What I won't accept is being kept in the dark about the situation.

We as Albion supporters have perhaps, more than any other club in the country earned the right to honesty and communication from the board and manager.

If its bad then so be it, but for Christs sake tell us what's going on. If you've fallen out with Harty, Dick, then find another way, but tell us what's going on.

From the people, sitting around me in F block, there are going to be an awful lot of empty seats around me next season, if something isn't done, the honeymoon of returning to Brighton is well and truly over...

My assesment is we are a nursery for bigger and even smaller clubs of the players that we nurture thru' the youth scheme plus any others we are lucky enough to happen upon and develop. The vast majority of this money then funds Falmer. Notwithstanding the huge effort put in by the players, whatever Division we end up in is just c'est la vie and could merely be a by-product of Relegation. This will be the case for the forseeable future.

Is it too much for someone on the board to come out and agree with this reading of the situation or (as I hope) dispel it with reasoned arguments and supporting facts.

If the product continually deteriorates on the park, so the dream will vanish in sympathy.

 

[BensGrandad]

Trevor Benjamin was on 17K a week at Leicester when we had him on loan.

That is why they wanted him out what will he be on now £3k?

 

[London Irish]

A loan signing is not going to care, about our short term situation, he is going to care about his own career. A chance to play 1st team football in the Championship is what he is going to care about.

Let's test that theory then. We indentified one loan target recently in Lee Barnard who we thought, despite his previous uninspiring loan record, might be good enough to improve our forward line. Surely he would want to come here rather than stay in Spurs reserves? Problem is, the changing situation at that club meant he was offered a glimpse of the big time and made it on to the bench at White Hart Lane. So if you were Barnard, would you stay put knowing that dream debut could be just one or two injuries away, or would you take yourself out of the picture entirely by taking yourself down to the worst ground in the entire football league to a team that are odds on at the bookies to get relegated? Hmmmmm.........

AWhat I would really like to know is who we have tried for and why it didn't happen. I am not anti Knight or McGhee, but I am anti settling for relegation in February!

We have been told that, we have tried for various players, we have also been told by McGhee, that February was the crucial month of our season. Here we are most of the way through it with a number of players shipped out and with no new signings coming in.

So you have been told we have tried for various players, but, errr......you are demanding to know who they are?

The list is endless really, isn't it? I'll have a quick go at the recent ones, there were too many to remember from the beginning of the season.

Alan Lee - couldn't compete with Ipswich's offer
Danny Dichio - Preston won't release him and has scored for their first team recently
Lee Barnard - Spurs won't release him
Neil Shipperley - Warnock won't release him.........yet.
Darren Byfield - this one is too recent to have made the Argus but we were chasing him last week
Tom Brighton - deal agreed but collapsed when Clyde wanted more
Dion Dublin - deal close to being agreed, but funnily enough, he chose one of the biggest clubs in the world over us
Rory Fallon - we took the judgement that the money Swansea were paying overvalued the player, so we left them to it
Eurcom League striker whose name I forget - probably not good enough

I'm sure I've missed some obvious ones but this is just the tip of iceberg, McGhee and his staff probably chase and consider more names than this in a single day that don't happen because the agents, players and clubs aren't interested. The ones that are, we then have to be checked out thoroughly to avoid another Turienzo situation, many of these won't then be regarded as good enough to help us in our current situation.

 

[London Irish]

That is why they wanted him out what will he be on now £3k?

Oh yes, forgot about him. This is a guy with 13 clubs in five years. Now what does this tell you about this player, then?

 

[Yorkie]

Ok just supposing DK and MM say they are going to have another Fan's Forum in a couple of weeks time.
How many would actually bother going to it?
I saw probably no more than 100 at the last one.

 

[BensGrandad]

You are in absolute dreamland if you think we could afford to spunk a quarter of a million on two players for just three months, when one or both could get injured in their first week here?

How will that help us to say up next season, for example?

You just can't look beyond the end of your nose, can you? We have to build a team that can stay up not just this year but the next one too, and the one after that.

Spunking that amount of money in 3-month bursts is the sure-fire not only to get relegated but also to put the club in the hands of the receivers.

12k a week

I would think that as the players would be on loan we would pay all of or a portion of their wages whilst they were here. Iif they got injured they would go back to their club and our financial commitment would be finished. So we wouldn't have 'spunked' £250k unless we had had ther full use of the players and they had failed to keep us up. That is the only risk.

I have offered to buy 1 extra ticket per game to help fund this and if 250 other people do the same it will mean that:

a. We can afford the wages of proven striker
b. We would possibly have a bigger support for the final run in.

So rather than make your futile efforts at ridiculing people you may be able to offer some similar constructive assistance to our cause.

 

[Yorkie]

Ok just supposing DK and MM say they are going to have another Fan's Forum in a couple of weeks time.
How many would actually bother going to it?
I saw probably no more than 100 at the last one.

Come on.
Who would go to a Fans Forum?

 

[London Irish]

Ok just supposing DK and MM say they are going to have another Fan's Forum in a couple of weeks time.
How many would actually bother going to it?
I saw probably no more than 100 at the last one.

I wouldn't mind a Fans Forum actually, but it's true that if you go by previous practice, the only people who actually turn up to them are the massed ranks of rose-tinters, lemmings, club lickspittles, cronies and Breast supporters

I guess the other lot are not used to asking a question where you don't have to mouse-click Submit Reply

 

[Yorkie]

I wouldn't mind a Fans Forum actually, but it's true that if you go by previous practice, the only people who actually turn up to them are the massed ranks of rose-tinters, lemmings, club lickspittles, cronies and Breast supporters

I guess the other lot are not used to asking a question where you don't have to mouse-click Submit Reply

Exactly my point. To be fair I did see around 20 Nsc'ers at the last one and they did ask a couple of questions.

But all people are baying for here is to get DK on the radio. They don't want to face him at a Fans Forum. They may even get some answers. Not necessarily the ones they want to hear mind you.

 

[London Irish]

Can you also source some of the figures you are putting on NSC. Am I understanding you right that you said we would lose a quarter of our playing budget if we go down one tier? I take it then you know the total revenue that tier 2 clubs get from TV and tier 3 clubs get? And you know our current playing budget (approx)? If so, post these figures on here and put your authorative source down so your claim has some independent credibility.

Also you make a guess at the drop of away support income. How have you arrived at that estimates? Have you compared the figures of season 2003-4, with 2004-5 and 2005-6. What is your method?

Can you address these comments BG.

 

[London Irish]

I would think that as the players would be on loan we would pay all of or a portion of their wages whilst they were here. Iif they got injured they would go back to their club and our financial commitment would be finished. So we wouldn't have 'spunked' £250k unless we had had ther full use of the players and they had failed to keep us up. That is the only risk.

I have offered to buy 1 extra ticket per game to help fund this and if 250 other people do the same it will mean that:

a. We can afford the wages of proven striker
b. We would possibly have a bigger support for the final run in.

So rather than make your futile efforts at ridiculing people you may be able to offer some similar constructive assistance to our cause.

We have just had the club office beseiged with people who are objecting to paying the market value for their seat in the South Stand.

What are the chances of finding 250 people willing to pay £300 extra for the remainder of the season on top of what they already pay, so soon after last year's Alive and Kicking appeal? Even that's only £75k, not the £250k you want. What steps are you taking to seriously going about finding these people rather than making grand, empty gestures on the internet that you know will never come to pass? Who have you found so far besides youself?

That still doesn't address the REAL issue that the club is coming up against, that players are not being released by their clubs, not salary/personal terms.

EDIT: Sorry, I posted this before reading how the finances of BG's scheme has already fallen apart on the Finance a Striker thread

 

[Bromley shrimp]

Let's test that theory then. We indentified one loan target recently in Lee Barnard who we thought, despite his previous uninspiring loan record, might be good enough to improve our forward line. Surely he would want to come here rather than stay in Spurs reserves? Problem is, the changing situation at that club meant he was offered a glimpse of the big time and made it on to the bench at White Hart Lane. So if you were Barnard, would you stay put knowing that dream debut could be just one or two injuries away, or would you take yourself out of the picture entirely by taking yourself down to the worst ground in the entire football league to a team that are odds on at the bookies to get relegated? Hmmmmm.........



So you have been told we have tried for various players, but, errr......you are demanding to know who they are?

The list is endless really, isn't it? I'll have a quick go at the recent ones, there were too many to remember from the beginning of the season.

Alan Lee - couldn't compete with Ipswich's offer
Danny Dichio - Preston won't release him and has scored for their first team recently
Lee Barnard - Spurs won't release him
Neil Shipperley - Warnock won't release him.........yet.
Darren Byfield - this one is too recent to have made the Argus but we were chasing him last week
Tom Brighton - deal agreed but collapsed when Clyde wanted more
Dion Dublin - deal close to being agreed, but funnily enough, he chose one of the biggest clubs in the world over us
Rory Fallon - we took the judgement that the money Swansea were paying overvalued the player, so we left them to it
Eurcom League striker whose name I forget - probably not good enough

I'm sure I've missed some obvious ones but this is just the tip of iceberg, McGhee and his staff probably chase and consider more names than this in a single day that don't happen because the agents, players and clubs aren't interested. The ones that are, we then have to be checked out thoroughly to avoid another Turienzo situation, many of these won't then be regarded as good enough to help us in our current situation.

Do you not think that our unwillingness to compete with other clubs/pay the going rate has something to do with it? We must be as desperate as anyone after all to secure players' (a striker's) services, suggesting that we may even have to pay slightly over the odds rather than walking away when the deal is about to be closed. The economics of the prospect of 3rd Division football next season surely underpin this sentiment.

The philosophy should be "Can do" NOT "Can Make do".

 

[London Irish]

Do you not think that our unwillingness to compete with other clubs/pay the going rate has something to do with it? We must be as desperate as anyone after all to secure players' (a striker's) services, suggesting that we may even have to pay slightly over the odds rather than walking away when the deal is about to be closed. The economics of the prospect of 3rd Division football next season surely underpin this sentiment.

The philosophy should be "Can do" NOT "Can Make do".

Can do? We need more than management consultant jargon, fella!

Only in two of those examples I gave was that a factor. Do you realistically think we can compete with Ipswich in a bidding war with Alan Lee? Even if we had the money for the transfer fee (which we don't), could we then afford to commit ourselves long term to the wages he wants (his personal demands, and there would have to be a big premium that would make him turn down the midtable/upper table security of Portman Road) given the club's current hand to mouth existence? Run the budget of our club that way and you don't have a club.

The other example of Fallon and Swansea was not so costly as Lee but still expensive, but probably more a value judgement, this is a player with one good half-season of football behind him in tier 3 yet Swansea because of their stadium revenues were willing to gamble and pay over the odds for this guy. Should we have? Big, big gamble, fella, for a player with that track record. We may have gone for him if Swansea's interest had not inflated his price unrealistically.

The economics of third-division football are also unclear. Iv'e asked BG to back up some of the statements he made on that but haven't heard from him yet.