Green's blocking Amex expansion plans? Steve Bassam

[The Large One]

Call my cynical but I would imagine the Green Party had already decided to target one of our MP seats at that time and obviously making that sort of statement she would hope might win her a number of votes. It's a strange statement for someone who at the time lived in Oxford and Brussels with no links to Brighton and Hove.

Fair point.

But of all the statements she could have made as a PPC, she made that one. Someone anti-stadium or anti-Albion wouldn't say anything like that, nor later be prepared to have her photo taken at the stadium (even if it is outside her constituency), nor generally be very supportive of the human impact (especially jobs and the role of AITC) that the stadium has brought.

Perhaps she felt she needed to say it in order to diminish a perception. Like you said, 'welcome to mainstream politics'.

 

[brightn'ove]

Arsenal (with three times the numbers) don't seem to have a problem. yet they face the same challenge.......

Can't be total rocket science

the thing is from there, you can go in all directions, you have 3 options at the amex, train, bus and P&R (i suppose you could walk as well). But they are all from the same place, you could easily walk for a bit away from the emirates and get on at a different tube stop/bus stop.

 

[gripper stebson]

Queueing for trains at both ends?

Edit: Having to allow such a long time to get to and from - For the 'fanatic' it's not such an issue, but as a casual, it put's you off. Bury your head in the sand all you want, but ultmimately turning casuals in to regulars that get you a full stadium...

Its 22,000 people leaving a venue at the 'same time'. Then you have to queue for 20 minute max to get away on the train... I think its been way better than I imagined it would be.

 

[les dynam]

Its 22,000 people leaving a venue at the 'same time'. Then you have to queue for 20 minute max to get away on the train... I think its been way better than I imagined it would be.

this.

 

[Postman Pat]

Fair point.

But of all the statements she could have made as a PPC, she made that one. Someone anti-stadium or anti-Albion wouldn't say anything like that, nor later be prepared to have her photo taken at the stadium (even if it is outside her constituency), nor generally be very supportive of the human impact (especially jobs and the role of AITC) that the stadium has brought.

Perhaps she felt she needed to say it in order to diminish a perception. Like you said, 'welcome to mainstream politics'.

Do you think she would have been elected in Brighton if she had said she was anti-stadium and therefore in the eyes of many as anti-Brighton?

Do you think there would be so many Green councillors if they had put they were anti-expansion in thier manifesto?

Would you have voted for them if they did? Would many more Albion fans come out to vote who didn't?

Just 'supporting' a decision they could do nothing about.

 

[Notters]

the thing is from there, you can go in all directions, you have 3 options at the amex, train, bus and P&R (i suppose you could walk as well). But they are all from the same place, you could easily walk for a bit away from the emirates and get on at a different tube stop/bus stop.

As I always do at the Amex... and it amazes me how few people do. There were probably about 7 (SEVEN) people on the first number 49 from Moulsecoomb on Saturday after the match.

 

[The Large One]

Do you think she would have been elected in Brighton if she had said she was anti-stadium and therefore in the eyes of many as anti-Brighton?

You could say that of any politician.

Do you think there would be so many Green councillors if they had put they were anti-expansion in thier manifesto?

And of any party. Why do you feel the Greens in particular are anti-expansion, when it's the Conservatives on the council who have raised the most objections and in one case voted against it (something no Green councillor has done)?

Would you have voted for them if they did? Would many more Albion fans come out to vote who didn't?

Probably not. I wouldn't have voted for any party who was anti-expansion. But then, from all that has been said by them, I'm not sure that applies here.

Just 'supporting' a decision they could do nothing about.

... instead of 'opposing' a decision they could do nothing about. And as opposed to other PPCs who said nothing. Lucas could have said nothing, but chose to support it. And still does.


I'm not sure what your point(s) is/are here, apart from appearing to come from a viewpoint that the Greens are fundamentally anti-Albion / anti-stadium / anti-expansion. Would that be your PoV?

 

[Postman Pat]

You could say that of any politician.




And of any party. Why do you feel the Greens in particular are anti-expansion, when it's the Conservatives on the council who have raised the most objections and in one case voted against it (something no Green councillor has done)?




Probably not. I wouldn't have voted for any party who was anti-expansion. But then, from all that has been said by them, I'm not sure that applies here.




... instead of 'opposing' a decision they could do nothing about. And as opposed to other PPCs who said nothing. Lucas could have said nothing, but chose to support it. And still does.


I'm not sure what your point(s) is/are here, apart from appearing to come from a viewpoint that the Greens are fundamentally anti-Albion / anti-stadium / anti-expansion. Would that be your PoV?

I don't have a viewpoint either way whether they are pro or anti expansion, just making the point it would have been political suicide in Brighton to suggest they are.

If Caroline Lucas was going to stand as an MP for Brighton she would at some point have been asked if she agreed with building the stadium on the edge of a national park. She got the answer out early.

I'd just like a straight answer on the Twitter row, as politicians are involved I don't think we are going to get one.

 

[The Large One]

I don't have a viewpoint either way whether they are pro or anti expansion, just making the point it would have been political suicide in Brighton to suggest they are.

If Caroline Lucas was going to stand as an MP for Brighton she would at some point have been asked if she agreed with building the stadium on the edge of a national park. She got the answer out early.

I'd just like a straight answer on the Twitter row, as politicians are involved I don't think we are going to get one.

Fully agree.

 

[Gangsta]

the thing is from there, you can go in all directions, you have 3 options at the amex, train, bus and P&R (i suppose you could walk as well). But they are all from the same place, you could easily walk for a bit away from the emirates and get on at a different tube stop/bus stop.

My Arsenal ST mate who is also Amex ST says Arsenal is far worse getting away from (and laughs at the complaints he hears down here), and quite correctly points out that it will always take a certain amount of time to get 15,000 plus people away from a single venue, so we just have to get used to it. I used to be a 5 minute walk from Withdean but am more than happy to give up this convenience to see the club progress.

 

[trueblue]

Arsenal (with three times the numbers) don't seem to have a problem. yet they face the same challenge.......

Can't be total rocket science

The last Arsenal game I was at, I left an hour after the final whistle and it was more than an hour from that point before I was in traffic moving at over 10mph. I'll take the Amex experience, thanks.

 

[Uter]

As I always do at the Amex... and it amazes me how few people do. There were probably about 7 (SEVEN) people on the first number 49 from Moulsecoomb on Saturday after the match.

I wonder if that is because it's a bit further than most people are prepared to walk, or just through ignorance of their existance?

There are six 49s an hour aren't there? If they are double deckers then they could theoretically shift around 500 people an hour. If something were build to allow them to turn around at the end of Lucraft Road on the old Falmer High School site then that might bring them close enough to persuade a lot more people to catch them.

 

[Acker79]

I'd just like a straight answer on the Twitter row, as politicians are involved I don't think we are going to get one.

In fairness, a lot of issues don't have straight forward answers, simple yes/no answers aren't often enough to cover the multitude of variables government throws up. Even those that can be given as simply "yes, in principle I'm in favour of the expansion" can become a big issue if you then vote against it because while you want the expansion, you want improved sustainable transport, which the application doesn't provide. Suddenly you're painted as a liar or indecisive, when your position is the same as it ever was, and often times the masses aren't able to make the distinction and your political career can be ruined.

 

[ChilternGull]

If the Green Party did block the application they would need real evidence against the local planning criteria. An idealogical stance against football or cars just would not do. Given the original planning permission being granted I suspect the Greens would have little ground to stand on at any appeal. The way to deal with this is to get at Caroline Lucas. The prospect of losing votes and undermining the local football team would focus the attention. This has the potential of bringing the Greens some bad national publicity. The Labour and Tory administrations in the town over the years have supported the Club and could reasonable be expected to do so again. If it was Falmer for All against the Greens I know who I would back to win.

 

[Hungry Joe]

If the Green Party did block the application they would need real evidence against the local planning criteria. An idealogical stance against football or cars just would not do. Given the original planning permission being granted I suspect the Greens would have little ground to stand on at any appeal. The way to deal with this is to get at Caroline Lucas. The prospect of losing votes and undermining the local football team would focus the attention. This has the potential of bringing the Greens some bad national publicity. The Labour and Tory administrations in the town over the years have supported the Club and could reasonable be expected to do so again. If it was Falmer for All against the Greens I know who I would back to win.

This is the crux of the matter I think. Currently there is a fair amount of posturing from both The Green Party and Lord Bassam, as is the way of all politics. It's like when you start an argument with someone else using very polarised and extreme views and over the course of the argument you end up finding a more reasonable middle ground. Caroline Lucas is no fool; she knows she has to be seen to be championing the environmental-impact cause, but in reality she also knows that any major spanner in the works regarding expansion would be political suicide. I don't think it's worth worrying too much at this stage.

 

[looney]

This is the crux of the matter I think. Currently there is a fair amount of posturing from both The Green Party and Lord Bassam, as is the way of all politics. It's like when you start an argument with someone else using very polarised and extreme views and over the course of the argument you end up finding a more reasonable middle ground. Caroline Lucas is no fool; she knows she has to be seen to be championing the environmental-impact cause, but in reality she also knows that any major spanner in the works regarding expansion would be political suicide. I don't think it's worth worrying too much at this stage.

Its the kind of issue that really tests their bullshitting skills, it doesn't help anyone else trying to work out which way she/or they will jump.

 

[honey boy zimba]

Just out of interest would Lord B resurect the seagull party if things started to get a bit iffy for the stadium ?

 

[BensGrandad]

I usually stay behind for a couple of beers with my sons but for the Forest game they had to get away so we all left as soon as the game finished and I was suprised how much quicker it was than the Doncaster game which made me decide to wait a while. We couldnt get on the first train to Lewes but caught the 2nd and was on Lewes station by about 5.30 and after the connection was in HH about 6,00pm which is very good. I noticed the rain both to and from Falmer had a lot more than 4 carriages which the experts said they couldnt have. Also caught the train from Brighton about 2.30 there was loads of people on the station and couldnt get on the Falmer train so we were sent to another platform and another train filled up and went to Falmer non stop I think this happened again to another train. So well done to Southern Rail who showed it can be done. So with a little effort and working together what difference will the extra seats make.

 

[Storer 68]

Just out of interest would Lord B resurect the seagull party if things started to get a bit iffy for the stadium ?

bit late to worry "about things getting a bit iffy"

95% of the sodding thing is built and in use.

 

[trueblue]

Surely if the club builds a 1000 space car park on that site, then for the majority of the time it could be used as a Park and Ride serving the city? That's pretty 'green' isn't it?