GOOD things that religion has ever given us

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

You lot really don't have a clue, do you.

How about such things as hospitals, schools, universities, most major social reforms, nursing as we know it, the basis of our societal norms and legal structures, the printing press, Oxfam, and much great art and architecture. And rock music owes a great debt to spirituals. But of course many of you are too blind or bigotted to see the work of religions around you. You live in a little world based on whatever tidbits the media feeds you.

What you don't take into account is what people of faith are doing everyday in most corners of the world. You have these sad little cliches about religion starting wars (when as often as not, it is people either manipulating religion to suit their own personal causes, or not being religious enough) and you forget the massive amount of work that religions do to make peace in the world. I guess you forget that some of the central tenets of Christianity are to turn the other cheek, to love your neighbour, and to treat others how you would want them to treat you (in fact that is the golden rule of most major religions). That is the Christian position - it is very clear. If some twist religion to their own ends, you can't blame Christianity, you must blame the twisters. If there is a war, it probably has something to do with greed, a lust for power or a fear, all of which are cotrary to the Christian faith.

You pick up a few soundbytes about priests who have been guilty of abuse (and they exist in every occupation - it seems to be a flaw in some human's character) but for each one of them there are many, many thousand priests who spend their days working for the needy in the most difficult and challenging circumstances. For some reason, though, their good works don't often make it into the Sun or the TV's daily 'this is what we want you to think' slots. Good grief, you bleat on and on about how badly some of the media cover the Falmer issue and then swallow everything else they say about anything else, especially if it reinforces your own bigotry.

You want one little soundbyte to add to your collection? Remember that little girl in Africa who was close to death back in the 1980s when they filmed her and brought her story to the TV news, which ultimately led to Band Aid, Live Aid, etc? She was the one that somehow survived and was brought out on stage at the recent Live Aid show and who spoke so passionately. Where do you think she was when the TV crew found her? Who do you think was feeding her and nursing her - and thousands of children in a similar condition? Who do you think was already pouring money into Ethiopia and other countries keeping people alive, long before the great eye in the corner of your living room stirred your consciences?

Well said Juan... but it's not just Christainity... there are other religions out there which propound the idea of thinking of others before yourself... in fact pretty much all religions do..... until those who can only think of themselves begin to twist them for their own ends.... Humans... what can you do?

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

morning Mr Albion. I must say it's a joy to be patronised by a religious Zealot. I feel however I must take issue with your claims. Many of the things you claim for Christendom are actually better traced to the Romans and therefore of course by extension the Greeks, Carthaginians and Etruscans.

Education is of course a good example of this, the Romans having a great, albeit class restricted public education system. The Church in the early middle ages in Europe presided over a massive shrinking of literacy by restricting access to education to the religious elite. Of course if we want to thank religion for maintaining our knowledge of Greek and Roman advances we need to look to the East and Islam - a true religion of learning at the time, which might confuse some of our more excitable posters

Good point...... but Romans , Etruscans and Greeks lived in a society governed by religion didn't they and I think the point was.... good things that religion has given us... wasn't it?

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

mr albion's argument sadly invites us to examine the motives behind many altruistic acts, performed by religious people.

as an atheist, when i do a good deed it is because i am a good person.

for the religious folk, when they do a good deed it is merely out of either fear of god, or promise from god that there is an ultimate benefit from doing so (heaven, etc.).

shame.

Erm...no... by saying so you are making the same 'holier than thou' mistake that some religious people make. I am religioýus and I don't do good deeds because god wants me to do.... I became religious because I thought it was the right to do good thinmgs and religion supported my belief.... in other words the other way round to what you assume to be the case.

 

[Tesco in Disguise]

I became religious because I thought it was the right to do good thinmgs

i came to that conclusion all by myself. aren't i clever.

 

[Trufflehound]

The Inquisition.

Pogroms.

The Crusades...

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Good point...... but Romans , Etruscans and Greeks lived in a society governed by religion didn't they and I think the point was.... good things that religion has given us... wasn't it?

Roman society wasn't governed by religion in the way the medievil europe was, and the temples of Rome weren't responsible for the Grammataria, they were secular institutions - so no religion wasn't responsible for learning.

Even church architecture is secular in origin- the basilica upon which the traditional church layout is based was originally a secular Roman building.

 

[NMH]

Well said Juan... but it's not just Christainity... there are other religions out there which propound the idea of thinking of others before yourself... in fact pretty much all religions do..... until those who can only think of themselves begin to twist them for their own ends.... Humans... what can you do?

Yeah, it would be intrigueing to know the balance of good-deeds vs bad that are due to religion.
Saving lives and helping the poor, vs murders, beheadings, floggings, genocides, sacrifice.

I just BET that the away team are winning!

 

[NMH]

Religion probably slows learning down. It is hardly known for the opening of minds (in general, I'm not pointing out one particular faction)

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

i came to that conclusion all by myself. aren't i clever.

Yes it does I don't think it matters how you get there... as long as you get there

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

Roman society wasn't governed by religion in the way the medievil europe was, and the temples of Rome weren't responsible for the Grammataria, they were secular institutions - so no religion wasn't responsible for learning.

Even church architecture is secular in origin- the basilica upon which the traditional church layout is based was originally a secular Roman building.

Can't entirely agree with this view.... it's one of many I have read over the years. I agree it was not as religious IN PRACTICE as Medieval Europe because Medieval Europe was one of most radically religious periods in history. The fact that temples were centres of learning and these temples were dedicated to gods points to the fact that Romans took it for granted that learning was a gift of the gods... something the Greeks were very strong in propounding. The fact they didn't use religion as a reason to conquer kill and maim doesn't make them less religious... it makes them seem more enlightened religiously. At least that's my 5p's worth opinion

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

Yeah, it would be intrigueing to know the balance of good-deeds vs bad that are due to religion.
Saving lives and helping the poor, vs murders, beheadings, floggings, genocides, sacrifice.

I just BET that the away team are winning!

Again you are absolutely right... but I don't think it's the religion that's to blame... I think it is the humans who use it to get their own way.

Religion ýs most definately the best way to control and justifiy violence and terror....... it can be however also the best way to justify love and understanding... it is humans who decide which one we do.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

How do you classify religion? And which religions are people attacking and defending?

 

[Tesco in Disguise]

Yes it does. I don't think it matters how you get there... as long as you get there

of course it does. you therefore cannot be but entirely selfish.

 

[dougdeep]

...but think how big the population would be if there hadn't been all these religious wars.

 

[Cocksucker Blue]

if it wasn't for religion you wouldnt be able to follow the Albion religously.

 

[Giraffe]

Madonna, good catholic girl.

 

[NMH]

Again you are absolutely right... but I don't think it's the religion that's to blame... I think it is the humans who use it to get their own way.

Religion ýs most definately the best way to control and justifiy violence and terror....... it can be however also the best way to justify love and understanding... it is humans who decide which one we do.

Eh? So religion isn't to blame, it's humans?
That suggests that religion exists autonomously, regardless of humans. If humans didn't exist, would religion then have to inhabit the minds of animals? I could then see gerbils turning against each other, wearing turbans and mass murdering hamsters - as religion has managed to influence the most intelligent species to do.


Tthrow the gerbil down the well, so my country can be free...!

 

[Tesco in Disguise]

religion can be a source of hope and strength in a world torn apart...by religion.