Glad England lost to Russia !!

[ali jenkins]

Why would you think they didn't give 110% ? It seems to me that the real problem, isn't effort, it's lack of ability. For some reason we seem to think the likes of Steven Gerrard, Wayne Rooney and Rio Ferdinand are world class.....they are not. I actually think the team gave it their all yesterday, the problem was that they were just not good enough.

To be fair, I never saw either of the games this week, but from what I heard from a few diffrent people is that it lacked passion and commitment!

But you have to agree, the modern footballer does seem to care about how many 0's are going to be on their next pay check more than they should do!

 

[Albion Rob]

I think our first eleven, when they are all fit, is as good as pretty much any side in the world. Unfortunately, we lack any genuine strength in depth and for that we are being punished.

Only five of the team out there last night had Champions League experience in the past two years and that just isn't good enough. It stands to reason - if your players are not playing at the top level regularly then they will not be as well versed in the little bit extra that makes the difference at the top level.

I'd like to think it would change our psyche and we would stop seeing the PL packed with average players in their late 20s from abroad rather than being patient with young talent but as stated above, all it reallydoes is reinforce the idea that English players are rubbish and that we need foreign players to make the PL interesting.

 

[wehatepalace]

class, i'm afraid.

Class has got nothing to do with it

 

[Tesco in Disguise]

Class has got nothing to do with it

you ARE joking.

 

[Icy Gull]

We've done whether or not players should sing the National Anthem to death before games BUT why do the rugby players (who come from all classes btw) sing their hearts out and look really emotional whilst most football players either gaze vacuosly into the distance or just mumble looking totally embarrased?

2 mins before kick off and not to be pumped up with pride and passion would suggest not caring as much to me, but is it really that simplistic?

 

[Pavilionaire]

Part of the problem is that the style of football played in the Prem is unique. It is must faster and pacier than international football with possession swapped much more frequently.

Consequently, the likes of Gerrard and Lampard get far more chances to look good, and so we're left thinking they are world beaters only to find that in the international arenas they cough the ball up far too often and are left chasing shadows.

Re. the debate on Gerrard or Lampard - I'm actually beginning to think BOTH should be dropped.

 

[Simster]

Part of the problem is that the style of football played in the Prem is unique. It is must faster and pacier than international football with possession swapped much more frequently.

Consequently, the likes of Gerrard and Lampard get far more chances to look good, and so we're left thinking they are world beaters only to find that in the international arenas they cough the ball up far too often and are left chasing shadows.

Re. the debate on Gerrard or Lampard - I'm actually beginning to think BOTH should be dropped.

Personally I agree with this assessment, except that you can't drop Gerrard or Lampard from the squad because they're both class players - by England standards. Dropping either of them would only mean bringing in a less talented player, but one who gives the ball away every bit as often.

Basically we need players who understand that football is a game where possession is key. There's no short term fix for that sadly.

 

[wehatepalace]

you ARE joking.

No Not in the slightest ! Yes there are toffs that watch Rugby just the same as they watch football. But there are also alot of working class lads that watch/play Rugby myself and my friends included.
Rugby aint just for posh boys at boarding school anymore you know !
Come and have a drink at my Rugby club one Saturday evening I think you'd be suprised and i'll even buy you a pint out of my *giro*

*imnotactuallyunemployed*

 

[Tesco in Disguise]

No Not in the slightest ! Yes there are toffs that watch Rugby just the same as they watch football. But there are also alot of working class lads that watch/play Rugby myself and my friends included.
Rugby aint just for posh boys at boarding school anymore you know !
Come and have a drink at my Rugby club one Saturday evening I think you'd be suprised and i'll even buy you a pint out of my *giro*

*imnotactuallyunemployed*

i'm not sure this is really an argument. of course there are toffs who like football and working class peeps who like rugby, but the numbers are overwhelmingly biased. you have only to go to the games to see the obviousness of this. i would hazard that there are more working class at rugby matches (especially in the north, where the game seems more popular), than toffs at the footy.

 

[Caveman]

wage caps.

Ditto, aslo equals cheaper matchday attendance.

 

[Simster]

i'm not sure this is really an argument. of course there are toffs who like football and working class peeps who like rugby, but the numbers are overwhelmingly biased. you have only to go to the games to see the obviousness of this. i would hazard that there are more working class at rugby matches (especially in the north, where the game seems more popular), than toffs at the footy.

Overall, rugby is a game played by upper class people. There are pockets of the country where this is not the case (Cornwall, the West Country and of course League is played along the M62 band of industrial cities) but the fact is that football isn't even an option at many private schools.

But anyway, why should "class" be an explanation for behavioural differences? Why are so many top football players in this country just thuggish, money grabbing wankers? I suspect it's because indiscipline is not weeded out at grass roots because it's not deemed necessary.

It's a shame really because these twats give most of the other 3,000 professional football players in this country a bad name.

 

[wehatepalace]

i'm not sure this is really an argument. of course there are toffs who like football and working class peeps who like rugby, but the numbers are overwhelmingly biased. you have only to go to the games to see the obviousness of this. i would hazard that there are more working class at rugby matches (especially in the north, where the game seems more popular), than toffs at the footy.

So...............................why say it's a class thing then ?

 

[Pavilionaire]

With the England attack you have to start with Owen, and he is FAR more productive alongside Heskey. But Rooney likes to play in the hole in an advanced midfield position. Surely he covers the same ground that Gerrard / Lampard do?

We are blessed with two of the best overlapping full-backs we've ever had in Richards and Ashley Cole, so SWP and Joe Cole can help out in CM if required.

I think we have to see beyond Gerrard and Lampard because they both give the ball away too much and don't score or create enough goals.

 

[wehatepalace]

But anyway, why should "class" be an explanation for behavioural differences? Why are so many top football players in this country just thuggish, money grabbing wankers? I suspect it's because indiscipline is not weeded out at grass roots because it's not deemed necessary.

Nail on head

 

[The Large One]

With the England attack you have to start with Owen, and he is FAR more productive alongside Heskey. But Rooney likes to play in the hole in an advanced midfield position. Surely he covers the same ground that Gerrard / Lampard do?

We are blessed with two of the best overlapping full-backs we've ever had in Richards and Ashley Cole, so SWP and Joe Cole can help out in CM if required.

I think we have to see beyond Gerrard and Lampard because they both give the ball away too much and don't score or create enough goals.

Fully agree.

I also like the idea of a midfield of Cole, Barry, Rooney and SWP.

Until yesterday, I would have defended Gerrard's performances, but I though he was awful. No drive, no commitment, very sloppy, not paying attention to his passes.

 

[zefarelly]

well it give parents the opportunity to teach their Children somethiong morrally sound and worthwhile instead of sitting on their arse watching a bunch of overpaid immoral idiots fail in front of the nation then blame someone else

whilst I still like ther game of football I despise the business and most involved with it. I thought the music business was bad!

 

[Tesco in Disguise]

But anyway, why should "class" be an explanation for behavioural differences? Why are so many top football players in this country just thuggish, money grabbing wankers? I suspect it's because indiscipline is not weeded out at grass roots because it's not deemed necessary.

class and behaviour are inexorably linked. things like manners, respect, holding-your-knife-and-fork-in-the-right-way are entrenched in the thoughts of the middle class more so than the working class, and at an age young enough that one can carry them into their professional career.

i'm in no way asserting that the middle class are 'better' than the working. indeed, i think the middle class often lacks the genuineness and sensitivity of the working. but the idea of - for example - asking your captain to take an issue up with the referee instead of confronting him yourself will be more foreign to those who have grown up from a working-class background.

sadly, it's often down to education. the middle class have had better opportunity than the working and so don't as quickly resort to anger and violence, when dealing with problems. until we have equality of opportunity, this is unlikely to change.

and yes, you can blame thatcher.

 

[wehatepalace]

for example - asking your captain to take an issue up with the referee instead of confronting him yourself will be more foreign to those who have grown up from a working-class background.

What ? That is something that you are taught when you first learn the game, just the same as how to catch a ball, it has nothing to do with what social class you come from !!!

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

but the idea of - for example - asking your captain to take an issue up with the referee instead of confronting him yourself will be more foreign to those who have grown up from a working-class background.

What ? That is something that you are taught when you first learn the game, just the same as how to catch a ball, it has nothing to do with what social class you come from !!!

Quite agree WHP and it's 10 metres down the pitch if you give the ref any lip - no question. I only ever did this once and it cost the team 3pts - the grief I got from the rest of the pack!
Shame football's never fully bought into this idea.

 

[Dave the OAP]

asking your captain to take an issue up with the referee instead of confronting him yourself will be more foreign to those who have grown up from a working-class background.

.

sorry...can you run that one past me again?