Given the economy is his alleged chosen field

[El Presidente]

they are certainly working on it. people forget that they genuinely dig poverty, especially the posh ones. people moving to the suburbs or buying nice cars is like nails down a blackboard to most of them.

plenty want to help people but the partys run by posh snobs and poverty tourists who think turning half of london into some sort of replica of a third world city is a fantastic idea and somehow good for the soul.

there are some seriously deranged cnts in that party, much much more damaging than any tory who could not care less about your average bod. people vote for them because they think they should, half the time, and hope for the best that their more bonkers elements will not affect them. voting fashionably is about the most ridiculous thing you can do but it makes up a fair chunk of labours support.

A lot of people vote for them for the same reason they want Chelsea to win the Premiership, i.e. they are NOT Manchester United.

 

[User removed 4]

Because everyone stagged on the IPO's.

stagged ?

 

[El Presidente]

stagged ?

Buying shares in an IPO with the aim of an immediate sale at a profit, because the launch price is at a discount to the worth of a company.

 

[User removed 4]

Buying shares in an IPO with the aim of an immediate sale at a profit, because the launch price is at a discount to the worth of a company.

el pres you're being a little disingenuous here , you know full well that it happens with most ipo's.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Gordon Brown is an honest, decent and truthful man.

The recent inquiry would suggest otherwise.

 

[El Presidente]

el pres you're being a little disingenuous here , you know full well that it happens with most ipo's.

True, a small discount makes sense, I absolutely agree with you.

However, £500 of shares at launch date of British Gas is now worth £5,645, equating to a loss to the public purse of about £90 billion.

I genuinely couldn't give a shit about Labour or Tory, but it's the people in glass houses that constantly drone on about the sale of the gold reserves tend to be the ones who are quietest about privatisation and the loss to the exchequer.

People in glass houses and all that....

 

[User removed 4]

True, a small discount makes sense, I absolutely agree with you.

However, £500 of shares at launch date of British Gas is now worth £5,645, equating to a loss to the public purse of about £90 billion.

I genuinely couldn't give a shit about Labour or Tory, but it's the people in glass houses that constantly drone on about the sale of the gold reserves tend to be the ones who are quietest about privatisation and the loss to the exchequer.

People in glass houses and all that....

Given that british gas was privatised in 1986 and 13 years later at the time of the centrica demerger were only trading about 70p higher, and that there has been several mergers and aqcuisitions since, i'd say that the price now carries very little weight compared to the one twenty four years ago.

 

[beorhthelm]

True, a small discount makes sense, I absolutely agree with you.

However, £500 of shares at launch date of British Gas is now worth £5,645, equating to a loss to the public purse of about £90 billion.

now that is massively disingenuous, you know full well BG today isnt the same business sold by government nor is the market comparable to the time. if the old BG was sold today it would not fetch the same.
i do agree though that people bang on about the gold, it wasnt even that much. far more significant was the pension fund raid worth £5 billion *every* year and screwed alot of pension funds.

 

[BLOCK F]

Thank God that Brown is almost dead in the water..he has to go and he must know his days are numbered.
The country needs rid of this wasteful Government and I am cautiously optimistic that whatever happens on/after May 6th,the Labour party will no longer be in power.If no party has an overall majority and Clegg does a deal with the party that has the largest vote,it is very unlikely to be Labour. Anyway,he has stated he will not prop up Brown and another unelected PM would be unacceptable to the majority of the electorate.The country cannot afford another 5 years of Labour.The country's finances are in deep shit and the next few years will not be comfortable,but the alternative to not sorting out our own mess would be even worse.Labour have shown they are economically inadequate and they have to go.
Lefties,get your heads out of the sand.Your lot have had their chance and as always have left the country in a mess.

 

[Hannibal smith]

Can Brown turn it round now we are talking about the economy? Doubt it. This election is fast turning into one based on personality, or lack of, of the main leaders which comes across during these false debates. The fact that Nick 'who are ya' Clegg is seen as the best of a bunch so far is like having a football tournament of Macclesfield, Burton Albion and Shrewsbury with Burton coming out on top. Almost makes me wistful for the likes of Blair.

Of all these people who have turned to the Lib dems I bet half of them couldn't even name one of thier policies.

 

[Arthritic Toe]

I am sorry Tom but this " nothing to do with me guv " mantra that Brown has repeated for 2 years is bollocks and seems to have fooled a lot of people.

Very true - and the particularly annoying thing is that he seems to be getting away with it. A decent opposition would have held him to account on this. The biggest economic cock-up in history happened on his watch and he's more or less been allowed to get away with it.

 

[El Presidente]

now that is massively disingenuous, you know full well BG today isnt the same business sold by government nor is the market comparable to the time. if the old BG was sold today it would not fetch the same.
i do agree though that people bang on about the gold, it wasnt even that much. far more significant was the pension fund raid worth £5 billion *every* year and screwed alot of pension funds.

I totally agree with you that BG has changed, but who is to say that the change could not have occured whilst under public ownership, and the benefits being taken to the public purse?

I simply gave BG as an example of public utilities being sold off at an undervalue, the pin-stripes in the city making a fortune out of it.

I'm not sure the pension funds were 'screwed'. They weren't allowed to keep the tax credit on dividend income, that's all. If the £5bn you refer to didn't come from the retention of that dividend credit, where else do you think it should have come from? The choices are either increases in income tax or spending cuts, the public made that choice when they re-elected the Labour administration.

Of course is Tony and his cronies hadn't taken us to an unnecessary war, we could be saving £5bn a year there, but that's a separate issue.

It's disappointing that George Osborneor his predecessors) have not made a manifesto commitment to reverse the dividend credit rule, if the issue is as critical as some claim. There is certainly a huge fiscal disaster looming in relation to pensions, and I cannot see ANY of the three main parties grasping this particular nettle.

Compared to the mismanagement of the pension funds, ridiculous 'management' and transfer fees, mis-selling of endowment schemes by the industry that was more concerned about generous commissions than giving consumers a worthwhile product. The Financial Services Industry is full of villians.........in suits, and they're even worse that the weasel like politicians on both sides.

 

[timco]

that is a myth, mainly put about by Brown or the wallys in the press. he didnt need to nationalise the banks to do that, just secure deposits. The failing part of the banks should have been allowed to fail, and the successful parts sold.

The Americans tried something similar with Lehmans, if Brown had done that with NR and BB I doubt we would be where we are now.

 

[User removed 4]

I totally agree with you that BG has changed, but who is to say that the change could not have occured whilst under public ownership, and the benefits being taken to the public purse?

I'll say it, you're joking if you think that.

 

[User removed 4]

I simply gave BG as an example of public utilities being sold off at an undervalue, the pin-stripes in the city making a fortune out of it.

I gave you more credit than tired city boy cliches

 

[User removed 4]

I'm not sure the pension funds were 'screwed'. They weren't allowed to keep the tax credit on dividend income, that's all. If the £5bn you refer to didn't come from the retention of that dividend credit, where else do you think it should have come from?

perhaps he shouldn't have spent the £5bn if he didnt have it, certainly not at the cost of seriously wrecking the private pension system?

 

[User removed 4]

. The Financial Services Industry is full of villians.........in suits, and they're even worse that the weasel like politicians on both sides.

more tired cliches

 

[webbyson]

you my friend obviously dont work in the city. and yep I do and yep im still working class

So it would not worry you if the Bank who you had a mortgage with went into administration and your loan was brokered by another institution who then informs you that the current interest rate is null and void and now you have to play by their rules. Mmmmm and your in the city........

 

[El Presidente]

perhaps he shouldn't have spent the £5bn if he didnt have it, certainly not at the cost of seriously wrecking the private pension system?

Depends if he thought that £5bn a year would wreck the private pension system I guess.

If you look at the total amount of money paid into private pensions, £5bn a year is what proportion of the total, and how does that compare to the management fees taken out by the pension companies themselves?

 

[beorhthelm]

If you look at the total amount of money paid into private pensions, £5bn a year is what proportion of the total

well, its the equivilent to 22% of the dividends earnt, based on the size of the pensions industry in 1997. be a fair bit more by now. it was a very neat little tax as it went unnoticed by the population, only in the industry. its been widely said that the Treasury advised him against it at the time and that its led to many pension fund closing and resposible for many of the funding black holes that now exist - which our taxes will have to cover when they are covered by the protection scheme