Get Off Dean Wilkins Back !!!

[The Large One]

I think we all must realise that there are many outside of the 'clubs inner sanctum' but close enough to be privy to much information that is relevant to our discussions.

Some of it is sensational most of it tittle tattle.

I doubt whether anyone on here is likely to divulge their source and therefore it can be dismissed by those that have their own clear views and opinions, thats fine and is to be expected.

I do not know bhadeb, but I would suggest that you should not dismiss hers/his opinions too readily.

It is likely that DK did not act fairly with Hammond, O'Callaghan and Savage.

DK's information to the fans was NOT wholly accurate.

Nor should it be. The contract negotiations are, after all, none of our business.

Deb is not offering opinions, she is stating what she sees as facts, by claming to know about issues for a fact. I, and others, are merely asking her to back up precisely what she means by them. Hopefully, in answering that, she doesn't have to reveal a source to do so.

However, you are equally in no better position to know whether DK 'acted fairly' with Hammond, O'Callaghan and Savage, unless you were in on the negotiations. Were you in on them?

 

[Titanic]

...I do not know bhadeb, but I would suggest that you should not dismiss hers/his opinions too readily.

She has had plenty of opportunity to tell us the source and veracity of her 'information'... if she won't then it's hardly surprising that people take her pretty wild accusations with a pinch of salt. I would genuinely be interested to know her source (not by name - but at least by their position in the club or whatever) and how they 'know' what DK says and does in private meetings with players/agents/Dean W etc..

It is likely that DK did not act fairly with Hammond, O'Callaghan and Savage...

How so ?

 

[BigGully]

Nor should it be. The contract negotiations are, after all, none of our business.

Deb is not offering opinions, she is stating what she sees as facts, by claming to know about issues for a fact. I, and others, are merely asking her to back up precisely what she means by them. Hopefully, in answering that, she doesn't have to reveal a source to do so.

However, you are equally in no better position to know whether DK 'acted fairly' with Hammond, O'Callaghan and Savage, unless you were in on the negotiations. Were you in on them?

Not sure about the contract negotiations being none of our business, I think DK has commented on everyone, quite explicitly.

'to back up precisely what she means by them', how does anyone do that without being exact and exposing how they have access to such information.

I totally accept that this will invalidate our opinions to some, however I am sure many will continue to post their views, some valid some not.

My point that being unfair, is not necessarily a financial point so being present in contract talks in not relevant.

 

[king Wombat]

well it sounds to me like Deb is just spouting badly written nonsense to be honest. The posts sound more like ignorant rants than informed statements to me.

but you go and defend the 'voice of freedom' if you want mr gully..

 

[BigGully]

well it sounds to me like Deb is just spouting badly written nonsense to be honest. The posts sound more like ignorant rants than informed statements to me.

but you go and defend the 'voice of freedom' if you want mr gully..

really .... might have to go and check her posts again .... wont be long !

 

[The Large One]

Not sure about the contract negotiations being none of our business, I think DK has commented on everyone, quite explicitly.

'to back up precisely what she means by them', how does anyone do that without being exact and exposing how they have access to such information.

I totally accept that this will invalidate our opinions to some, however I am sure many will continue to post their views, some valid some not.

My point that being unfair, is not necessarily a financial point so being present in contract talks in not relevant.

I don't recall Dick Knight commenting 'explicitly' upon Savage's nor Hammond's contract negotiations while they were ongoing aside from saying 'we won't be held to ransom'. He never divulged any information until after he had gone, and even then it was only to say that Hammond was being offered the second-highest amount of money ever form this club (which probably still isn't a huge amount in the football world), and that he offered him a get-out clause for the end of the season, and that Savage's demands were in excess of what the club was offering.

Aside from that, I have no idea what Hammond was offered, nor is it our business to know.

 

[BigGully]

I don't recall Dick Knight commenting 'explicitly' upon Savage's nor Hammond's contract negotiations while they were ongoing aside from saying 'we won't be held to ransom'. He never divulged any information until after he had gone, and even then it was only to say that Hammond was being offered the second-highest amount of money ever form this club (which probably still isn't a huge amount in the football world), and that he offered him a get-out clause for the end of the season, and that Savage's demands were in excess of what the club was offering.

Aside from that, I have no idea what Hammond was offered, nor is it our business to know.

But DK needn't of mentioned those players contract offers, in any terms.

Why mention in vague details that are obviously open to various interpretation about a personal contract is unecessary and unhelpful to any negotiation current or future.

 

[king Wombat]

But DK needn't of mentioned those players contract offers, in any terms.

Why mention in vague details that are obviously open to various interpretation about a personal contract is unecessary and unhelpful to any negotiation current or future.

i think in that respect i agree with you about going public - but as i remember it, DK's mentioning of these offers were in response to the players going public.

and even if that's not the case then does that not also apply to the players/agents who instead of keeping things inhouse were quite happy to spout off to the argus.

so what you have done differently then?

 

[The Large One]

But DK needn't of mentioned those players contract offers, in any terms.

Why mention in vague details that are obviously open to various interpretation about a personal contract is unecessary and unhelpful to any negotiation current or future.

So what do you want to hear - everything or nothing?

At the point where we heard nothing, aside from what the agent went to Andy Naylor with, it didn't stop you interpreting what you believed (not knew - 'believed') to be the case. In fact, it matters not one jot what the club says - by your own 'true belief' system, based on er, um, er your own true belief, you often judge Dick Knight's approach to contract negotiations.

 

[m20gull]

But DK needn't of mentioned those players contract offers, in any terms.

Why mention in vague details that are obviously open to various interpretation about a personal contract is unecessary and unhelpful to any negotiation current or future.

He mentioned those specific points in response to criticism levelled at him that he wasn't doing enough to keep players at the club.

It's easy to see what goes on - agent talks up player, convinces him he is undervalued by the club, club offers less than player thinks he's worth, agent bleats to Naylor, NSC whingers take up the bleating, hangers-on pretend they know everything, DK is on SCR and gets fed up with the back-stabbing and has a go back. He gives little away only enough to be taken seriously.

I will repeat what several others have said. We will not miss Savage, O'Callgahan or Hammond.

And if you are going to go on any public forum and call someone a liar, you are going to need some facts to back it up - as in " he said xxxxxx, that's not true because yyyyyyy" or I, for one, am not going to be convinced that you know any more than I do.

 

[m20gull]

Dean Hammonds contract talks started in October - how is that the begining of the season - his first offer from Dick was lower than his current wage - how is that fair?

If that were true then it would be in contravention of this FA rule wouldn't it?

"Within 7 days of the first Saturday in May, or the date of the last
competitive Match of the Club’s first team, whichever is the later, the
Club must give notice in writing to the Player indicating that either the
Club offers a re-engagement or, if appropriate, exercises any option
contained in the agreement.

If the notice offers re-engagement it must specify the period which the
Club is prepared to agree and the terms and conditions to apply, which
must be the same or not less favourable overall than those which applied
during the initial period of employment – or the option period (if
applicable)."

 

[Barrel of Fun]

It was well before October that the contract talks came about. Good way of covering your own back, whilst engineering a move away for a greater salary.

 

[fosters headband]

Forster: How Albion can keep Hammond
By Andy Naylor

Nicky Forster
Albion's stand-in skipper Nicky Forster is convinced Dean Hammond will stay if the Seagulls prove they are serious about trying to win promotion back to the Championship.

Forster has urged the club to demonstrate their intent by strengthening the squad during the rest of the January transfer window.

Hammond appears to be on his way out of the club after refusing to sign a new contract The 24-year-old midfielder is entitled to a free transfer at the end of the season when his current deal runs out, so Albion want to try and cash in now by putting him up for sale.

Top scorer Forster, 34, said: "I am one of the more experienced players at the club and I came to Brighton not wanting just to coast along.

"I want to push forward and get back up into the Championship where I feel I can play and the club can go.

At the moment the ambition from the club doesn't seem to mirror that and I think that is the reason why Dean Hammond is reserving judgement.

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"The way I see it, and I think the way all the players see it, is that there is no doubt about it, if Dean Hammond gets the assurances that the club will strengthen the squad and make a push for promotion then he will sign.

"From speaking to him I have got no doubt in my mind about that but he obviously at the moment isn't getting the assurances that the club are going to do that.

"He sees that he could have another few years in this division (League One) and for a young player captaining the side, playing well week in and week out he wants to do the best he can.

"I think it would be with a very heavy heart that he would leave this club but, for the sake of his future, he might feel that he needs to."

Forster, bought from Hull in the summer for £75,000, has spoken out to voice concerns within the camp about the way Albion's season is crumbling.

The Seagulls were sitting pretty when he scored his 12th goal of the season in a 3-0 victory at Swindon in mid-December.

They were just outside the play-offs and sill in both the FA Cup and Johnstone's Paint Trophy but since then key players have left and the team's fortunes have suffered.

Bas Savage departed after rejecting a new contract and on-loan midfielder George O'Callaghan returned to Ipswich with a parting shot at chairman Dick Knight for dragging his heels over contract issues.

Albion crashed out of the FA Cup at home to Mansfield, were beaten with a makeshift side in the JP Trophy at Swansea and have lost their way in the League.

So far during the January transfer window two new players have come in - former Falkirk captain Steven Thomson and rookie Irishman Sean McFaul - while Matt Richards and David Martot have been re-signed on loan.

Now Forster and the rest of the players are worried Hammond's impending departure and the lack of more transfer activity will wreck any chance of mounting a revival.

He said: "From the squad's point of view we will be disappointed if we don't keep hold of Dean.

"He is a local lad who has come through the youth team and he is somebody we want to keep hold of.

"We need to keep hold of players like him. He is key to us. He does so well for us and when we haven't got him in the team we certainly miss him.

"I really understand where he is coming from. I don't think it's so much a case about money with him, he wants to see ambition from the club and that drive that they are going to get up to where he wants to be.

"There is that hanging over us all at the moment if I am honest. If we are going to push on from the first half of the season then we need to invest in the team.

"We've got a very good basis but we need more strength in depth. Too many times this season we have been down to the bare bones and if the club has got that ambition to get into the Championship we need to invest.

"You look at the likes of Forest, Swansea and Leeds. Don't get me wrong, they are on big budgets but it is very difficult for us to compete with teams like that when they are spending, five, six, seven or eight hundred thousand pounds on single players.

"With George (O'Callaghan) and Matt (Richards) coming in we got ourselves into a good position. We were a bit of a force to be reckoned with, or starting to look that way.

"It is disappointing that the season has become a bit disjointed now with players going and not the quantity of players coming in yet."

..........................................................................................................................

I think these comments from the club captain did fuel many fans thoughts that all was not well at the club. This statement from Forster was after they had signed Martot, Richards, Thomson and McFaul.

 

[m20gull]

and only three of the points you have highlighted are from Forster, the other two from the journalist.

Was the statement made after the signings or was it just published after? It would seem an odd comment "with ... Matt coming in" if he had come back already?

 

[BigGully]

So what do you want to hear - everything or nothing?

At the point where we heard nothing, aside from what the agent went to Andy Naylor with, it didn't stop you interpreting what you believed (not knew - 'believed') to be the case. In fact, it matters not one jot what the club says - by your own 'true belief' system, based on er, um, er your own true belief, you often judge Dick Knight's approach to contract negotiations.

Hold on guys, a little unfair there !!

I stated that DK has publicly lambasted each one of those players in reference to their contract talks, that was in direct response to you saying I have no idea what Hammond was offered, nor is it our business to know.


My stance is that DK should keep a dignified silence on all contract matters, his interventions are unhelpful and may be a hindrance to any current or future signings.

I have been consitent throughout, now how about you, maybe you would like to answer your own question.

So what do you want to hear - everything or nothing?

 

[fosters headband]

and only three of the points you have highlighted are from Forster, the other two from the journalist.

Was the statement made after the signings or was it just published after? It would seem an odd comment "with ... Matt coming in" if he had come back already?

I think you made a very good point about the timing of the statement, so I just went through to find out when we had signed these players, especially Richards.

4th Jan- Martot signs
11th Jan- Mc Faul signs
15th Jan- Thomson signs
17th Jan- Richards signs
23rd Jan Forsters statement appears saying the squad needs strength in depth.
25th Jan- Murray signs
29th Jan- Revell sold
30th Jan- Hammond sold
31st Jan- Elder sold
31st Jan- Dixon signed
So it appears the squad was in fact made weaker after Forster’s comments, because at this time he would not have known about Elder or Revell going.
And as you can see Richards had been signed 6 days prior to the release of Forster's statement.

 

[The Large One]

Hold on guys, a little unfair there !!

I stated that DK has publicly lambasted each one of those players in reference to their contract talks, that was in direct response to you saying I have no idea what Hammond was offered, nor is it our business to know.


My stance is that DK should keep a dignified silence on all contract matters, his interventions are unhelpful and may be a hindrance to any current or future signings.

I have been consitent throughout, now how about you, maybe you would like to answer your own question.

So what do you want to hear - everything or nothing?

Fair enough - you want to hear nothing. But that will still not stop (nor did it) you stating your opinion - and indeed your judgement - at a time when we'd heard nothing.

To answer the same question, I want to hear everything that is prudent for the public to hear.

 

[BigGully]

Fair enough - you want to hear nothing. But that will still not stop (nor did it) you stating your opinion - and indeed your judgement - at a time when we'd heard nothing.

To answer the same question, I want to hear everything that is prudent for the public to hear.

Hold on I didnt say I want to hear nothing, it would be extremely interesting to hear loads of gossip, no doubt however I want to hear the truth.

I have never said that information should not be free flowing, but critical issues including current playing staff and any ongoing negotiations should be dealt with sensitively.

He should not put the club, including his Manager in a position that might make their current and future work more difficult.

I cringed when I heard DK do a character assassination on Hammond and others in recent weeks and as for his self congratulation on Murray without a mention for Lloyd, Wilkins and his staff was damning.

 

[BensGrandad]

I cringed when I heard DK do a character assassination on Hammond and others in recent weeks and as for his self congratulation on Murray without a mention for Lloyd, Wilkins and his staff was damning.

Unfortunately that is a trait of DK, he is never around when there is critiscm flying about but is always at the forefront when it is backslapping time.

 

[Monsieur Leclerc]

Unfortunately that is a trait of DK, he is never around when there is critiscm flying about but is always at the forefront when it is backslapping time.

Apart from the fans phone in the other week.