Get Off Dean Wilkins Back !!!

[withdeanwombat]

Dear oh dear

Take a look at the table.

Take a look at the football.

Wilkins is pony,and one way or other should go.

 

[Mrs Coach]

There seems to be a big division here - either Dick Knight is right and the players are wrong or the players are right and Dick Knight is wrong.

You know who I am and who I talk to. I feel the disputed players 'leaving' could have been handled a little better on both sides. When an issue gets heated, both parties feel their version of events is absolutely right, without question. Just think of the last argument you had with your partner?! See what I mean?
Brighton and Hove Albion Club creates more passion in it's fans, players and staff than any other club I've come across, which also results in more firey clashes. Bit Italian really aren't we? Shame we dont play like them! lol!

The involvement of the 'agents' has also created, in all of these cases, additional problems and unneccesary mud slinging. Most footballers, especially youngsters, didn't do that well at school - they were outside playing football, not doing their homework, and gawd bless 'em for it - and few would be up to analysing a complicated contract - but a common or garden solicitor would, wouldn't they? Then the player could talk DIRECTLY to the horse and it's mouth, rather than the piggy in the middle. I know the days are gone when it was an honour to play for club and country and all that, but it doesn't mean it's got better.

Rightly or Wrongly, you have to deal with what you've got, and unfortunately today, footie is a big business, at any level and loyalty on both sides is strained at the moment.

And........... relax.........

 

[bhadeb]

neither thanks i know the truth - thats all that matters

 

[BigGully]

there seems to be this ridiculous notion that we should be spending stupid amounts of money on players that we can't afford and keeping players who's actions have shown that they don't want to be here.

I am sorry it was not stupid amounts of money, maybe that accusation could be thrown at Murray, only time will tell.

Dont let Chairmen and Agents muddy the water here.

The first thing to remember was that Wilkins wanted all of them to stay and all players wanted to stay too.

It then only needed professional and fair negotiations by all involved.

But the break down in any ongoing negotiations were scuppered by a billigerent and self serving Chairman, which only fuelled a break down in talks.

I have no doubt that the players Agents too responded negatively to DK actions and they too were unhelpful.

But no matter how we all feel about some Agents and their players requests, it really needn't be a war, everytime there are contract talks.

We might be sitting here with all 3 players and who knows maybe one or two new players.

The club would be in extremely healthy position.

 

[NMH]

yes - he has caused half these problems - no smoke without fire - he lies to the fans and no-one sees it BECAUSE HE SAVED THE CLUB - yes he did but hes killing the club now - can George Bas Deano The argus all be wrong? - People talk about bringing Micky Adams Back but you should never go back - we are building for the future and that is what Dean is trying to do

Oh dear oh dear.

Why can you not get behind Wilkins without having a stab at Knight??

Is the idea that BOTH men are trying to get this club a better future too difficult to imagine??


or perhaps you are bored, and trying some desperate new attempt to create disquiet and rifts against DK - I mean ffs you idiot, George Bas and Deano and the argus?? Cheesus!

 

[NMH]

I am sorry it was not stupid amounts of money, maybe that accusation could be thrown at Murray, only time will tell.

Dont let Chairmen and Agents muddy the water here.

The first thing to remember was that Wilkins wanted all of them to stay and all players wanted to stay too.

It then only needed professional and fair negotiations by all involved.

But the break down in any ongoing negotiations were scuppered by a billigerent and self serving Chairman, which only fuelled a break down in talks.

I have no doubt that the players Agents too responded negatively to DK actions and they too were unhelpful.

But no matter how we all feel about some Agents and their players requests, it really needn't be a war, everytime there are contract talks.

We might be sitting here with all 3 players and who knows maybe one or two new players.

The club would be in extremely healthy position.

Why?? What was so great about those players that was irreplaceable?

None of them would have ensured we would now be "in extremely healthy position"!

Amazing

 

[BigGully]

Oh dear oh dear.

Why can you not get behind Wilkins without having a stab at Knight??

Is the idea that BOTH men are trying to get this club a better future too difficult to imagine??


or perhaps you are bored, and trying some desperate new attempt to create disquiet and rifts against DK - I mean ffs you idiot, George Bas and Deano and the argus?? Cheesus!

I am sorry NMH, I think you have missed a major point here.

Any Chairman will have an impact on their current Manager, the Chairmans role is critical.

I see Wilkins as a very good Manager and know that with the right support he could be a real success at our club.

If as some are hearing that Knight is not just instrumental in dealing with the financial aspects of contracts, but also instrumental to some degree even in the indentification of players then we really are in trouble and no-one more so than Wilkins.

So the Manager needs the full support and trust of the Chairman. Every financial detail of course needs the blessing of the Board and there will be at times disagreements and the Board will have the final say, but to blunder from one mistake to another, in terms of losing players that the Manager wants is unhelpful.

 

[king Wombat]

I am sorry it was not stupid amounts of money, maybe that accusation could be thrown at Murray, only time will tell.

Dont let Chairmen and Agents muddy the water here.

The first thing to remember was that Wilkins wanted all of them to stay and all players wanted to stay too.

It then only needed professional and fair negotiations by all involved.

But the break down in any ongoing negotiations were scuppered by a billigerent and self serving Chairman, which only fuelled a break down in talks.

I have no doubt that the players Agents too responded negatively to DK actions and they too were unhelpful.

But no matter how we all feel about some Agents and their players requests, it really needn't be a war, everytime there are contract talks.

We might be sitting here with all 3 players and who knows maybe one or two new players.

The club would be in extremely healthy position.

yes the contract talks weren't handled well - but how much of that was stirred up by the argus and the sometimes near hysterical nonsense posted by a few alleged brighton fans on this site and the argus site.

the bit i'm missing is why you think those players were going to stay - callaghan was never going to stay - as per proven from his interview.

savage - thought he was worth more than he was offered - so what do you do in that situation?? cave in and set a precedent for the next player who's contract is expiring?
brighton have little money and need to keep to a quite tight wage structure.

hammond - see my previous post.

the main point is that we aren't going up this season - and weren't likely to anyway. this team is in transition and has suffered setbacks but that's life!!

 

[BigGully]

Why?? What was so great about those players that was irreplaceable?

None of them would have ensured we would now be "in extremely healthy position"!

Amazing

Your still missing the point, this isnt my shout or yours.

You see it was Dean Wilkins desire to have those players because HE believed that would of helped his improving side.

So for the record I genuinely think they were quality players we could ill afford to lose and you obviously think otherwise.

But the critical thing is that the Coaching staff felt strongly that they needed each player at the club.

So it aint so amazing at all !!

 

[Knotty]

I am sorry NMH, I think you have missed a major point here.

Any Chairman will have an impact on their current Manager, the Chairmans role is critical.

I see Wilkins as a very good Manager and know that with the right support he could be a real success at our club.

If as some are hearing that Knight is not just instrumental in dealing with the financial aspects of contracts, but also instrumental to some degree even in the indentification of players then we really are in trouble and no-one more so than Wilkins.

So the Manager needs the full support and trust of the Chairman. Every financial detail of course needs the blessing of the Board and there will be at times disagreements and the Board will have the final say, but to blunder from one mistake to another, in terms of losing players that the Manager wants is unhelpful.

BigGully, you and I have had similar discussions on this before, but I hope you understand that some of the things you, and one or two others, say about DK and his 'lies' and running of the club are hard to believe because I, for one, can't see any point in him behaving like that. If I am to believe them, I need some proof and you have consistently failed to give that.

You may very well be right in everything you say, but your accusations are such that you really do need to provide that proof. If you can't then they must remain as merely your opinions - opinions I respect but do not agree with.

 

[Monsieur Leclerc]

Your still missing the point, this isnt my shout or yours.

You see it was Dean Wilkins desire to have those players because HE believed that would of helped his improving side.

So for the record I genuinely think they were quality players we could ill afford to lose and you obviously think otherwise.

But the critical thing is that the Coaching staff felt strongly that they needed each player at the club.

So it aint so amazing at all !!

Whilst that is true, Dean took the job knowing that we have to be stringent and stick to the budget. What happens when a club over extends themselves? See Luton and Bournemouth. Thankfully, we have a Chairman and Directors that are willing to cushion the club and I do not think we owe much to the HMRC. Bowing to the pressure of players to give them what they want is not the way to run a business and it seems that some people miss that point – particularly Debs over and over and over…! It sets a dangerous precedent.

You (not you in particularly) may believe that Dick was wrong, although presumably supported by fellow board members, but I would rather we had a club to watch than risk our future over two players that wanted more money than we could spare.

As for Dick ‘saved’ the club, he is still in the process of saving the club with the help of all the board and the fans that still attend.

As for 'lies', I think Dick has more forthright than he should have done and not been pulled into the baiting of the Argus and the agents spin.

 

[BigGully]

yes the contract talks weren't handled well - but how much of that was stirred up by the argus and the sometimes near hysterical nonsense posted by a few alleged brighton fans on this site and the argus site.

I have no feelings either way about the Argus and or Andy Naylor, however why do you think he was writing things that you felt were unhelpful to DK ?

We have to understand that Naylor and many others around the club, know every little detail of the club, things that you and I will never be privy to.

If Naylor hears that the conduct of the Chairman might be undermining certain important factors, then he is likely to put a negative spin on his reporting of the situation.

Much of his information is given 'off the record' so although he cannot come out and be too specific, it might be that things are happening that might be hindering the club and he wishes to intimate any grumblings.

If any of us was privy to information that confirmed that Knight is Clumsy at negotiation, unhelpful to the manager and has effected morale within the Coaching and Playing squad, what would you do ??

 

[Monsieur Leclerc]

....it basically boils down to the fact of if Dick had kept his nose out at Christmas i wonder where we would have been?? a lot higher in the league i would imagine

How exactly? Are you suggesting we should have bowed to the demands of Bas and Dean? What about the consequences of breaking the wage structure? I am sure everyone was disappointed that they did not sign, but the fact it our hands were tied. The ramifications of overextending ourselves FURTHER, do not bear thinking about. The current board are backing Dick and that is good enough for me.

I don't see what other options we had?

 

[BigGully]

Whilst that is true, Dean took the job knowing that we have to be stringent and stick to the budget. What happens when a club over extends themselves? See Luton and Bournemouth. Thankfully, we have a Chairman and Directors that are willing to cushion the club and I do not think we owe much to the HMRC. Bowing to the pressure of players to give them what they want is not the way to run a business and it seems that some people miss that point – particularly Debs over and over and over…! It sets a dangerous precedent.

You (not you in particularly) may believe that Dick was wrong, although presumably supported by fellow board members, but I would rather we had a club to watch than risk our future over two players that wanted more money than we could spare.

As for Dick ‘saved’ the club, he is still in the process of saving the club with the help of all the board and the fans that still attend.

As for 'lies', I think Dick has more forthright than he should have done and not been pulled into the baiting of the Argus and the agents spin.

I have always accepted that if the club cant financially deliver on certain issues, then they cant and wouldnt expect them to try to.

However I have always stated that finance is really not the issue here, never really has been in terms of my opinion.

I think Murray confirmed that.

It is should the Chairman try to deliver the managers wishes in terms of players especially players already here, within financial constraints of course.

By the way I reckon Wilkins had no idea what DK's approach to his Chairmanship was like.

If as I suspect

 

[king Wombat]

I have no feelings either way about the Argus and or Andy Naylor, however why do you think he was writing things that you felt were unhelpful to DK ?

We have to understand that Naylor and many others around the club, know every little detail of the club, things that you and I will never be privy to.

If Naylor hears that the conduct of the Chairman might be undermining certain important factors, then he is likely to put a negative spin on his reporting of the situation.

Much of his information is given 'off the record' so although he cannot come out and be too specific, it might be that things are happening that might be hindering the club and he wishes to intimate any grumblings.

If any of us was privy to information that confirmed that Knight is Clumsy at negotiation, unhelpful to the manager and has effected morale within the Coaching and Playing squad, what would you do ??

naylor wants people to read the argus - he can't overly support the club as its not his job and looks to create controversy or portray both sides of the dispute- i can't see how you can disagree with that. However, these articles are often very tabloid in their approach.

from memory - the contract 'wars' were all first instigated from the 'players' opinion.

my reply about the '3 players' you were talking about is based upon 1) an interview with o'callgahan 2) hammonds' call for 'ambition' and 3) savage and dk's difference of opinion over savage's value.

if i was in DK's position i would have done the same - if you're talking about morale etc and the chairman had paid whatever was neccessary to keep those players this quite clearly would have an impact upon future contract negotiations with other players - whilst it may have had a short term gain i can't see how it would have benefitted the club in the long run in dealing with players.

 

[homersimpson]

yes - he has caused half these problems - no smoke without fire - he lies to the fans and no-one sees it BECAUSE HE SAVED THE CLUB - yes he did but hes killing the club now - can George Bas Deano The argus all be wrong? - People talk about bringing Micky Adams Back but you should never go back - we are building for the future and that is what Dean is trying to do

You should never go back? Redknapp did and came back from rivals and look at them go....

 

[BigGully]

BigGully, you and I have had similar discussions on this before, but I hope you understand that some of the things you, and one or two others, say about DK and his 'lies' and running of the club are hard to believe because I, for one, can't see any point in him behaving like that. If I am to believe them, I need some proof and you have consistently failed to give that.

You may very well be right in everything you say, but your accusations are such that you really do need to provide that proof. If you can't then they must remain as merely your opinions - opinions I respect but do not agree with.

I accept that without me offering you the proof you require, it is always likely to weaken my case.

I can only add that I have no reason to offer such a view if I wasn't sure that this is actually happening within the club.

I am glad that it would seem that you would be disappointed if what I am saying is true, as bizaarely some accept my view and still think it is ok for the club to be run in a such a way.

 

[Monsieur Leclerc]

You should never go back? Redknapp did and came back from rivals and look at them go....

They also allowed him to spend over £50m since his return, not including wages/signing on fees etc. Not really an assured comparison IMO!

 

[Storer68]

i have but i don't like the way Dick has lied to the fans he has not been proved right about george - all he has done along with others is shit on them

Grow up and stop throwing stupid accusatons around without any facts to back them up.

where has DK LIED to the fans.

Falmer - delivered. Two championships - delivered. Archer out of the club - delivered. Biggest signing for 25 years

GO'C was not "shipped back to Ireland" - Ipswich released him. and given that O'Callaghan and savage are now twiddling their thumbs - Hammond had a dream move to.........Colchester!!!!!!!!

and I'm not quite sure I understand your other point.

 

[Ernest]

Grow up and stop throwing stupid accusatons around without any facts to back them up.

where has DK LIED to the fans.

Falmer - delivered. Two championships - delivered. Archer out of the club - delivered. Biggest signing for 25 years

GO'C was not "shipped back to Ireland" - Ipswich released him. and given that O'Callaghan and savage are now twiddling their thumbs - Hammond had a dream move to.........Colchester!!!!!!!!

and I'm not quite sure I understand your other point.

Falmer NOT delivered yet, many POTENTIAL banana skins yet