General Election 2015

[melias shoes]

Yep, in the hope that they would corner the voting market whilst wrecking the economy on the way.

Correct.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

labour. Making tens of thousands reliant on the welfare state (putting them on disability benefits so it wouldn't show up in the jobless figures). Then opening the floodgates on immigration to cheap labour to counter balance it. Then anyone who voiced an objection was racist. The real nasty party.

It was the Conservatives before them who massaged the unemployment figures by moving hundreds of thousands of long term unemployed off the dole and on to disability. When Labour took power in 1997 they just carried on with lying about the "true" number of people out of work in this country.

 

[ROSM]

Correct.

So how many of these nasty workshy foreigners get to vote then?

You could of course hark back to selling off council houses so that people became landowners and would be more naturally inclined to vote tory and less likely to strike. Now that's an ideological policy designed to influence voters.

Trouble is that in a Tory world the next batch come along with policies that hit those upwardly aspirational groups and shoot themselves in the foot. So houses being bought up on buy to let plans, or child benefit being hit if one of a couple is over a limit, or interest rates start rising to help savers.

 

[melias shoes]

So how many of these nasty workshy foreigners get to vote then?

You could of course hark back to selling off council houses so that people became landowners and would be more naturally inclined to vote tory and less likely to strike. Now that's an ideological policy designed to influence voters.

Trouble is that in a Tory world the next batch come along with policies that hit those upwardly aspirational groups and shoot themselves in the foot. So houses being bought up on buy to let plans, or child benefit being hit if one of a couple is over a limit, or interest rates start rising to help savers.

Who said the 'workshy foreigners'? Certainly Not Me. Read my post properly before throwing accusations.

 

[melias shoes]

So how many of these nasty workshy foreigners get to vote then?

You could of course hark back to selling off council houses so that people became landowners and would be more naturally inclined to vote tory and less likely to strike. Now that's an ideological policy designed to influence voters.

Trouble is that in a Tory world the next batch come along with policies that hit those upwardly aspirational groups and shoot themselves in the foot. So houses being bought up on buy to let plans, or child benefit being hit if one of a couple is over a limit, or interest rates start rising to help savers.

For the record I have never been in favour of selling council houses.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Tell me Labour wouldn't have borrowed more.

I can't. As I have no idea what they would have done because they were not in power. What I do know though, is the Tories promised to pay back the deficit within this term. And I also know Gideon failed all of his self-imposed economic targets. To do worse than this would take some doing.

 

[Soulman]

What was that war the (New) Labour govt started with George W Bush (Republican) ?

Why did the (New) Labour govt start it ?

Well wars need money, banks lend money, Blair is removed from office, a bank that made a shed load of cash (J.P. Morgan) pays Blair 2m a year to be an "adviser" . Meanwhile Mrs Blair fills her pockets fighting human rights cases against her husbands decisions/government.
So with Tone and wifey well set up, in steps McBroon and the rest of the Scottish Raj, bailing out the Royal Bank of Scotland, Brown bailing out the Clydesdale Bank which is in his own constituency. Moving military shipping projects north of the border.
Another few years in power and Scotland would have voted Yes imo.
Brown then knows after being outed by the Tories that Scotland were not quite ready for independence, and what with Labour in for a trouncing in Scotland from the SNP, if there is independence, which Brown feels they are not ready for....he campaigns for the No vote.

 

[beorhthelm]

Difficult to say. But you can unequivocally say that the amount saved by this government has been the same as labour said they would save in their pre election plans. Whether the cuts would have been to the same places with the same amounts to the same schedule is the question.

we can say unequivocally that the amount Labour saved would have been less, as Balls constantly reminded us to cut less, and cut slower. his cuts would have trimmed around the edges. unless of course there would be be substantial tax increases from somewhere, and im afraid the £1-2bn from the banner 50% rate wouldnt have cut the mustard. who knows how recovery would have developed or not under Labour, because they've had no tangible policy to point to. who knows how theyd have generated jobs, encouraged business or increased earnings, without increasing spending, cutting taxes or reducing costs of business. they'd have hoped that the economic cycle would save them, ridden it out until european and global economics returned to "normal". hasnt happened so we'd probably be where we are but with a substantially larger deficit.

 

[Stato]

labour. Making tens of thousands reliant on the welfare state (putting them on disability benefits so it wouldn't show up in the jobless figures). Then opening the floodgates on immigration to cheap labour to counter balance it. Then anyone who voiced an objection was racist. The real nasty party.

SNP.

Horseboxes and elephant dovetail into hairdye.

I thought we were arguing politics but have now realised that we are just writing the name of a political party followed by a non sequitur.

 

[cunning fergus]

So how many of these nasty workshy foreigners get to vote then?

You could of course hark back to selling off council houses so that people became landowners and would be more naturally inclined to vote tory and less likely to strike. Now that's an ideological policy designed to influence voters.

Trouble is that in a Tory world the next batch come along with policies that hit those upwardly aspirational groups and shoot themselves in the foot. So houses being bought up on buy to let plans, or child benefit being hit if one of a couple is over a limit, or interest rates start rising to help savers.

Work shy or not, this country in the last 12 years or so has handed out something in the order of 3m new passports. I don't recall any political party ever explain why such a policy was needed. The British public has certainly never demanded politicians implement such a policy.........unless I missed a meeting.

What possible reason could a Govt have to introduce a policy that makes immigrant numbers to be debited from the "immigrant balance sheet" and credited to the native population.

It's a poser isn't it..........oh, and they can vote right?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Work shy or not, this country in the last 12 years or so has handed out something in the order of 3m new passports. I don't recall any political party ever explain why such a policy was needed. The British public has certainly never demanded politicians implement such a policy.........unless I missed a meeting.

What possible reason could a Govt have to introduce a policy that makes immigrant numbers to be debited from the "immigrant balance sheet" and credited to the native population.

It's a poser isn't it..........oh, and they can vote right?

Care to provide some background to this 3m figure?

 

[Stato]

Work shy or not, this country in the last 12 years or so has handed out something in the order of 3m new passports. I don't recall any political party ever explain why such a policy was needed. The British public has certainly never demanded politicians implement such a policy.........unless I missed a meeting.

What possible reason could a Govt have to introduce a policy that makes immigrant numbers to be debited from the "immigrant balance sheet" and credited to the native population.

It's a poser isn't it..........oh, and they can vote right?

If you have picked up the 3M figure by the total net migration figures over the last twelve years, they have not all been given passports and they cannot all vote. A large section of them are from the EU and remain passport holders in their own country. I believe that they are able to vote in local elections, but they cannot vote in a general election.

Contrary to popular prejudice, immigration actually has a positive effect on GDP and trying to reduce it would make life difficult for Cameron if he also wanted to keep his promise to reduce taxes. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/04/reducing-immigration-slow-uk-economy-tax-rises

 

[yxee]

What the crisis in the NHS and LA social care sectors aptly demonstrates is that there is a structural need for more resources. There is a political consensus that this is so. There is also a mainstream consensus that raising taxes to address this (and, yes, address the deficit too) is not an option. I say mainstream because only the Greens offer this option.

The mainstream parties are running scared of this option. But, is not the test of political leadership the need, at times, to propose what the country needs rather than wants?

PG

Yes. After the Autumn statement I think it's widely recognised that the Tories plan more cuts, which is a solution. Labour aren't going to raise taxes, I think they are very complacent in opposition and seem content to nit-pick. Greens have an honest ideology on the economy and politics, but it's quite ironic that their environmental policies are largely awful for the country.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Y Greens have an honest ideology on the economy and politics,

And yet today the local Greens announced they would not cut any more services. What they have yet to say is how the hell they plan to achieve that feat ! Even if they get their 6% increase in council tax ( which they won't ) they still have a huge blackhole to fill. Honest ? My Arse !

 

[cunning fergus]

Care to provide some background to this 3m figure?

Sure, these are the official statistics, which are themselves only estimates........

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/migra...stics-quarterly-report/august-2014/index.html

General headlines are that there are 7.8m in the UK who were not born in the UK, of which 4.9m are not British Nationals.

Reference is also made to 3.2m British Nationals who were not born in UK.

Of course there will be a margin of error here, but conservatively these numbers would indicate 2.5-3m JCLs (not sure if that would includes minors).

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

...they still have a huge blackhole to fill. Honest ? My Arse !

Ohhhh, i say!

 

[cunning fergus]

If you have picked up the 3M figure by the total net migration figures over the last twelve years, they have not all been given passports and they cannot all vote. A large section of them are from the EU and remain passport holders in their own country. I believe that they are able to vote in local elections, but they cannot vote in a general election.

Contrary to popular prejudice, immigration actually has a positive effect on GDP and trying to reduce it would make life difficult for Cameron if he also wanted to keep his promise to reduce taxes. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/04/reducing-immigration-slow-uk-economy-tax-rises

New British citizens can vote work or ponce, they have the same rights as any other British citizen. Quite what the benefits are for the native British passport holders are is beyond me.

As for the benefits of immigration, uncontrolled immigration of the kind we have had in the last 15 years is and has been a catastrophe for the British working class.

If you don't believe me look at what Yvette Cooper thinks and says in this press release from November 2014 which states.........

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/102953239474/yvette-cooper-speech-labours-approach-to

"But it is the free market right who want a wide open border – in the interests of cheap labour."

Its useful she recognises the problem, now she want controlled migration. It's of course unforgivable that she (and the party that purports to represent the British working class) didn't do anything about it while in power for 15 years.

So, frankly you can stick the think tank and the economic benefits of immigration right up your Tory arse.

 

[Stato]

New British citizens can vote work or ponce, they have the same rights as any other British citizen. Quite what the benefits are for the native British passport holders are is beyond me.

As for the benefits of immigration, uncontrolled immigration of the kind we have had in the last 15 years is and has been a catastrophe for the British working class.

If you don't believe me look at what Yvette Cooper thinks and says in this press release from November 2014 which states.........

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/102953239474/yvette-cooper-speech-labours-approach-to

"But it is the free market right who want a wide open border – in the interests of cheap labour."

Its useful she recognises the problem, now she want controlled migration. It's of course unforgivable that she (and the party that purports to represent the British working class) didn't do anything about it while in power for 15 years.

So, frankly you can stick the think tank and the economic benefits of immigration right up your Tory arse.

Immigrants are not necessarily 'new British citizens'. All nationalities are counted in the migration figures and they have a range of rights.

The abandoning of democratic socialism is what has been a disaster for the Working Class, both in the UK and elsewhere.

I like Yvette Cooper as a politician, but the views she gives on immigration are carefully chosen because she is seeking the votes of some people who blame immigrants for all of the country's woes. Its a red herring, but its obvious that the populist view that its the immigrants and not the capitalists that are to blame for the inequalities of capitalism has gained the upper hand in the UK as it has so frequently in history when European countries have suffered recession.

The only comment I will make on your final abuse is that however offensive I might find being called a tory, I would rather that than any association with Farage's opportunistic gang of reactionary golf club bores, ex EDL/BNP supporters and those too embarrassing, mad or criminal to remain in a party that managed to excuse away Nicholas Fairbairn for over three decades.

 

[yxee]

And yet today the local Greens announced they would not cut any more services. What they have yet to say is how the hell they plan to achieve that feat ! Even if they get their 6% increase in council tax ( which they won't ) they still have a huge blackhole to fill. Honest ? My Arse !

It was a poor choice of phrase. "At least you know what they stand for" is what I was going for with that statement.

 

[cunning fergus]

Immigrants are not necessarily 'new British citizens'. All nationalities are counted in the migration figures and they have a range of rights.

The abandoning of democratic socialism is what has been a disaster for the Working Class, both in the UK and elsewhere.

I like Yvette Cooper as a politician, but the views she gives on immigration are carefully chosen because she is seeking the votes of some people who blame immigrants for all of the country's woes. Its a red herring, but its obvious that the populist view that its the immigrants and not the capitalists that are to blame for the inequalities of capitalism has gained the upper hand in the UK as it has so frequently in history when European countries have suffered recession.

The only comment I will make on your final abuse is that however offensive I might find being called a tory, I would rather that than any association with Farage's opportunistic gang of reactionary golf club bores, ex EDL/BNP supporters and those too embarrassing, mad or criminal to remain in a party that managed to excuse away Nicholas Fairbairn for over three decades.

Personally, I think the abandoning of clause 4 in 1995 was the end of meaningful socialism in the UK, since that point the Labour Party sold out to the capitalists and monetarists. Just look at Blair now, some man of the people he is.

I am only referring to new British citizens, of which there has been a significant increase in recent years. This new constituency of British citizenry have all the rights of their native counterparts. There is not much data on the performance of this group because they are now lumped in with the natives, which is the point. There is data from 2013 that indicates there are just shy of 8m resident (legally) in the UK who were not born here.

That is the real number, and I don't doubt there are benefits to be had from this influx of labour. But who benefits..............employers, capitalists and monetarists.

For the British working class this influx 8m workers that they have to compete with in all aspects of their lives has been disastrous on a number of levels, not least wages.

Yvette Cooper was one of he architects of this disaster and now wants to show that she can be trusted with the stable door.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/01/uk-workers-unprotected-migration-labour-cooper

You keep peddling the "benefits" of free market economics, we can see what you are........a Tory shill.