General Election 2015

[Herr Tubthumper]

I was planning to give [MENTION=1197]Bozz[/MENTION]er the honour of delivering the Herr Tubthumper proxy vote but having seen the title change this has been reconsidered.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I can see it happening - a case of "better the devil you know" for the politicians. Why wouldn't the Lib Dems do it? They get to be in the government for a second time in a row, safe in the knowledge that they have a 5-year proven record of working with the Tories. They also be keen to protect their legacy and build on their achievements of this parliament.

Similarly, the Tories will not want to risk coalition with UKIP because if the voters vote to stay in the EU Referendum UKIP are shot, the government will probably be brought down and the Tories will lose credibility. If they're in coalition with the Lib Dems and we vote to stay in the EU then the Tories will be able to mop up the defunct UKIP support over the life of the parliament and win a majority in 2020.

I feel allowing a minority government will serve their interests better. They have had their fingers severely burnt on a number of key manifesto issues so it's a case of once bitten twice shy.

 

[Stato]

Governments are now for a fixed term of five years unless there's a two-thirds majority. Both major parties would have to want a second election for that to happen

Only if an early general election is the proposal. An election would follow a successful vote of no confidence at any point and the vote would only require a simple majority.

 

[stripeyshark]

People talk about 326 - when in reality you only need 319 to win.

326 is obviously what you need for half of 650, but -1 for the Speaker, and then -6/7 for SF who obviously don't take the oath and don't go to Parliament then the maths does change.
However the numbers just don't add up for anyone at the moment, another election come October and a Tory Majority as they can mobilise their vote better.

You make a fantastic point. But with the speaker and 7 SF taken off, that would be a voting pool of 643, for which you'd need 322 to gain a majority. Con-Lib would have just enough on that prediction, with some help from UKIP who won't want a labour government.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Or they wouldn't be able to make and real change that the Country needs? They don't agree on the things that matter.

Having a minority / weak Government will cripple us Economically, throwing us into a state of flux.

Not necessarily. Some counties operate very well with coalitions. For example is it really in the UK's best interest to overhaul education and the NHS every time the government changes? A coalition might find a workable middle ground which can be put in place for decades.

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

Not necessarily. Some counties operate very well with coalitions. For example is it really in the UK's best interest to overhaul education and the NHS every time the government changes? A coalition might find a workable middle ground which can be put in place for decades.

But our NHS and education system does need overhauling? Maybe in the long term yes there might be room for a workable middle ground, but this year requires decisive action to be taken.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

But our NHS and education system does need overhauling? Maybe in the long term yes there might be room for a workable middle ground, but this year requires decisive action to be taken.

It doesn't need idealogical reform every year though. This is my point. If I had my way I'd take it out of government control. The judiciary and the BofE are able to operate away from the government. So can other departments. I think I'm correct in saying Norways education operates as an independent body.

 

[melias shoes]

Of course the previous administration built a lot more schools and created many academies, but, they didn't pay for them, they used PFI which we, our children, our grandchidren will be paying for until we have to give them back and refinance them all again. Pay twice, three times, four times, five times.

Exactly. Same with the hospitals. Oh look labour are spending lots of money on schools and hospitals. No they weren't they were mortgaging the NHS and local authorities to the hilt. All got to be paid back.

 

[melias shoes]

PFI is a means of raising capital for investment. It's use by previous governments is unpopular now, but was supported by all three parties at the time. Had Major, Hague or Howard won their respective elections, they would have used PFI.

My point is that Labour, the Lib Dems, the SNP & UKIP have no ideological axe to grind over the future structure of education and would not have made the radical and unnecessary massive changes which Gove drove through. (Although the Lib Dems supine support of radical legislation that they did not agree with and that the majority of the electorate voted against was an utter disgrace).

Voting in Milliband is necessary because his government would cause only accidental damage to the country, not the wrong headed deliberate damage intended by the radical ideologues currently in charge of the Conservative Party.

So,what you are saying is when labour **** up it's an Accident. When it's the tories it's deliberate. Pathetic.
You actually believe it's too.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Exactly. Same with the hospitals. Oh look labour are spending lots of money on schools and hospitals. No they weren't they were mortgaging the NHS and local authorities to the hilt. All got to be paid back.

Just like the eye-watering levels of cash the Tories have borrowed?

 

[yxee]

Just like the eye-watering levels of cash the Tories have borrowed?

Tell me Labour wouldn't have borrowed more.

 

[melias shoes]

Just like the eye-watering levels of cash the Tories have borrowed?

It would be be ball aching under labour. Tearfully so.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

I can see the Lib Dems losing many of their MPs this time round, they may not have much left to form a coalition. Even Nick Clegg's constituency in Sheffield is alleged to be very close.

I was speaking to someone yesterday who lives in Sheffield and they got the impression a substantial number of people who voted LD in 2010 in Sheffield Hallam will switch to Green and Lab in May.

 

[ROSM]

Tell me Labour wouldn't have borrowed more.

Difficult to say. But you can unequivocally say that the amount saved by this government has been the same as labour said they would save in their pre election plans. Whether the cuts would have been to the same places with the same amounts to the same schedule is the question.

I for one preferred the Darling plan to the one proposed and implemented by Osborne that forgot to mention the top down reorganisation of the nhs and which felt giving breaks to businesses and top earners was the best approach

 

[Stato]

So,what you are saying is when labour **** up it's an Accident. When it's the tories it's deliberate. Pathetic.
You actually believe it's too.

Are you deliberately misunderstanding, or can you not make the distinction between unintended consequences of bad policy making and deliberate strategy published in a manifesto? The tories have done lots of bad things accidently (e.g. pulling naval cover from the Falklands) and labour have done lots of bad things deliberately (e.g. war in the middle east). In this case, everything that Gove has done has been according to his plan and, if elected the tories will continue this ridiculous crusade for choice over standards.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Are you deliberately misunderstanding, or can you not make the distinction between unintended consequences of bad policy making and deliberate strategy published in a manifesto? The tories have done lots of bad things accidently (e.g. pulling naval cover from the Falklands) and labour have done lots of bad things deliberately (e.g. war in the middle east). In this case, everything that Gove has done has been according to his plan and, if elected the tories will continue this ridiculous crusade for choice over standards.

Ironically , the Falklands War won Maggie the general election in '83.

 

[osgood]

A civil service bigger than that of the Communist State in Hungary, an NHS that clapped and had billions poured into it irrespective of outcomes, a housing boom of their own, the end of 'boom and bust', not joining the Euro because it was particularly politically bad, Labour wanted in, who remembers the are you ready campaign, too many wars, PFI the biggest fraud ever perpetrated on the tax payers of this country, continual capitualtion to the Europeans, jumping to the USA s tune, a cut back on infrastructure spending and opening our borders without thinking of the implications.

Don't be fooled by this poster Labour left this country in a complete and utter mess, which today still has implications for us and geberations to come as the interest payment on our loans is greater than the defence and education budget combined and the legacy of PFI meaning that our children and grandchildren will be paying for this folly for generations until these projects are handed back and presumably repurchased. Keep Ed Balls fingers out of the till!!!

what about Bernie ecclestone et all and the "cash for honours" ?
what about the Dunblane cover-up and the press gag imposed by Bliar for 100years on anything to do with "Operation Ore ? www.tpuc.org/blair covering up
what about Gordon Brown selling the nations Gold Reserves for approxiamatly one tenth of the price Gold is now ,?
what about the TENS OF MILLIONS Bliar has milked from just about everywhere, making him , by far the richest ex prime-minister in history ,
what about "the (only) 15,000 immigrants that would want to work in the UK ?
"and theres more !"

 

[melias shoes]

Are you deliberately misunderstanding, or can you not make the distinction between unintended consequences of bad policy making and deliberate strategy published in a manifesto? The tories have done lots of bad things accidently (e.g. pulling naval cover from the Falklands) and labour have done lots of bad things deliberately (e.g. war in the middle east). In this case, everything that Gove has done has been according to his plan and, if elected the tories will continue this ridiculous crusade for choice over standards.

labour. Making tens of thousands reliant on the welfare state (putting them on disability benefits so it wouldn't show up in the jobless figures). Then opening the floodgates on immigration to cheap labour to counter balance it. Then anyone who voiced an objection was racist. The real nasty party.

 

[Soulman]

labour. Making tens of thousands reliant on the welfare state (putting them on disability benefits so it wouldn't show up in the jobless figures). Then opening the floodgates on immigration to cheap labour to counter balance it. Then anyone who voiced an objection was racist. The real nasty party.

Yep, in the hope that they would corner the voting market whilst wrecking the economy on the way.

 

[osgood]

What was that war the (New) Labour govt started with George W Bush (Republican) ?

Why did the (New) Labour govt start it ?