After a Parish meeting today the council have confirmed they will seek further legal advice and supporters can expect a further announcement in a few days according to BBC SCR
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Falmer Parish Council Fight ON
- Thread starter The Oldman
- Start date
eastlondonseagull
Well-known member
Oh FFS 
Gazwag
5 millionth post poster
Yeah I saw that on the news last night, surely they can't have more money than sense
Uncle Buck
Ghost Writer
- Jul 7, 2003
- 28,071
When does the Forfar boycott start?
Lokki 7
WSU
If they want to waste their money then fine. f*** em its over. We won.
eastlondonseagull
Well-known member
They really are a joke aren't they? Claiming that we're the ones coming up with the lies and mis-information 
Falmer Replies
Frequently reporters covering the proposed Falmer Stadium issue in the media show little detailed knowledge of the planning issues and arguments involved. They tend to merely repeat often inaccurate rhetoric used by the football club and its supporters. Much of this has been heard and challenged at the inquiry and has failed to impress a planning inspector who deals in facts.
Such rhetoric, without any cautionary balance concerning the difficulties facing applications for major developments in the AONB, has raised fans expectations of the virtual certainty of success of the Falmer Stadium application. Now one inquiry inspector has found the local plan stadium element to be unacceptable. We await the stadium inquiry inspectors report.
In this scenario it is time that fans stopped trying to shoot the messenger because they don’t like the message, and instead concentrate on those who wrote the message. B&H Albion directors and senior B&H councillors knew that the Falmer site was very small, initially only eight acres site, in a protected AONB. They were aware of much bigger alternative sites with lesser degrees of planning protection, but decided to take a risky and expensive gamble, to try and force through the planning system a massive stadium development on farmland AONB at Falmer.
The answers below from Falmer Parish Council to some of the rhetoric used by the club and its supporters indicate why that gamble may fail :
1. B&H Albion – The Local Plan inspector in refusing a stadium at Falmer is denying B&H a stadium.
Falmer PC – The inspector is not denying a stadium for B&H but is stating, after hearing all the evidence and visiting the alternative sites, that Falmer is not the appropriate place. There are alternative sites. If Falmer didn’t exist an alternative would have already been found.
2. B&H Albion – B&H Albions survival in the Football League is in the national interest.
Falmer PC – Not so. Many towns and cities exist quite well without a football league club. Clubs are relegated from the football league and replaced by clubs from the feeder leagues every season, under league rules. No claim of national interest or any other interest is allowed from any relegated club.
There has been virtually no coverage of the B&H stadium issue in the national media, It is not of national interest and it has raised little interest outside immediate football circles.
3. B&H Albion – B&H Albion cannot survive financially at the Withdean Stadium.
Falmer PC – Withdean currently has nearly 7,000 seats and will have 9,000 next season. Capacity there could be increased still further, or even a new stadium built. At least 19 or 20 clubs in the Football League operate on crowds of less than 8,000, often considerably less. The Albion are taking over the Ecovert contract at Withdean this year which will bring them in extra income. As the inspector indicated the club can certainly survive at Withdean and have the option to seek a new alternative site.
4. B&H Albion – If B&H Albion fell out of the Football League a large area of the south coast would be without a Football League club.
Falmer PC – Evidence in the form of maps showing the location of Football League clubs was presented at the inquiry. These showed that clubs are not located evenly to serve areas of population but have been located historically by accident and the vagueries of the league’s relegation and promotion rules. We have indicated above that if the Albion, or any other club, were relegated under these rules no consideration would be given by the Football League to national interest, location, or any other issue..
5. B&H Albion – Without B&H Albion the local economy would suffer significantly.
Falmer PC – This is completely unfounded. B&H economic records were presented at the inquiry that showed when B&H Albion were ground sharing at Gillingham there was no impact on the B&H economy. University projects were also shown to indicate there was no evidence of economic benefits to local communities from a stadium. The inspector at the Arsenal stadium inquiry also confirmed that no evidence of stadium linked economic benefits existed and that many large football clubs were sited in areas of extreme deprivation with no apparent local benefit.
6. B&H Albion – John Prescott should ignore the Local Plan inspector’s report on the Falmer Stadium proposals and instead listen to football fans.
Falmer PC - Why should John Prescott ignore the advice of an independent, professional inspector who is familiar with related planning policies, has seen and heard the evidence from all sides and has visited and inspected all the alternative sites - for the views of uninformed football fans. Many do not live in the Brighton area, many do not know Falmer or the alternative sites, are unfamiliar with national, local or structure plan policies , and have seen or heard none of the evidence from any of the parties to the inquiry. !
7. B&H Albion – B&H could lose its labour MPs if a stadium at Falmer is not allowed.
Falmer PC – This is a serious attempt to politicise the Falmer issue and the planning system. It is a discredit to those, including some B&H MPs, who are suggesting it. Football fans vastly overestimate their influence on local or national elections and have tried this sort of blackmail unsuccessfully before. In the 2003 B&H local elections the Labour Party, who have been blind supporters of a stadium at Falmer, lost many seats and their control of the council. The Green Party, who oppose a stadium at Falmer, won a record number of seats. Local and national electors, many not interested in football, have many more serious concerns, council tax, reductions in local services, hospitals, education, Iraq war, pensions etc.
8. B&H Albion – Falmer is the only possible site. Other sites all have problems.
Falmer PC – The Falmer site also has many problems but B&H Albion have sought solutions there (often expensive), but not at the alternative sites.
It has been demonstrated at the inquiry that the alternative site survey, the referendum and site selection process were seriously flawed.
Falmer PC members have visited a number of new stadiums around the country and researched many new stadiums and related football issues. The PC also carried out its own survey of the alternative sites in B&H showing there are alternatives. It was shown at the inquiry that six out of eight new stadiums built in the last ten years do not have a railway station nearby and many have no better transport access than many of the alternative B&H sites. Many of the alternative B&H sites are much larger than Falmer and would allow wider community and commercial enabling development. No enabling development is possible at Falmer making it financially high risk.
9. B&H Albion – The Local Plan Inspector has ignored the clubs evidence for the Falmer site and local needs and problems.
Falmer PC - The inspector has ignored nothing. He has heard all the evidence presented by the club and has visited and inspected all alternative sites. Much of the evidence by the club was challenged by opponents as being inaccurate or unfounded. The inspector then drew his own conclusions referring to the planning policies and restrictions that exist.
10. B&H Albion – If the Falmer site is refused B&H Albion will disappear and all its good work in the community will be lost.
Falmer PC – Both of these claims are untrue. We have indicated earlier that B&H Albion, even at Withdean, have the same prospects of survival as many other football league clubs.
Also, many towns and communities in the UK do not have a Football League club but junior football and sports in those areas, and the community, survive without them. Junior sports country wide are in the main maintained by committed parents and non league and amateur clubs, without help from professional clubs.
In educational terms Brighton has many academic institutions, including schools, colleges and two universities all serving the community and capable of delivering educational, IT and other training to all ages.
There is a failing media college at Sheepcote Valley threatened with closure. Perhaps a stadium located there, with very direct links to the college would help maintain it to serve the community again ?.
All of these claims by B&H Albion, and many others, have been aired thoroughly and challenged at the public inquiries. Opponents to the Falmer Stadium proposals have also pointed out serious flaws in the club’s planning application in areas like alternative sites, transport, access, parking, environmental and landscape impact and the financial stability of a stadium without other enabling development. It is now up to independent, professional planning, inspectors to report their findings to the Secretary of State and for him to make a decision on the planning issues, unaffected by the often unfounded rhetoric or political blackmail now being employed by B&H Albion via post inquiry lobbying of John Prescott, outside the planning process and untested at a public inquiry.
Falmer Replies
Frequently reporters covering the proposed Falmer Stadium issue in the media show little detailed knowledge of the planning issues and arguments involved. They tend to merely repeat often inaccurate rhetoric used by the football club and its supporters. Much of this has been heard and challenged at the inquiry and has failed to impress a planning inspector who deals in facts.
Such rhetoric, without any cautionary balance concerning the difficulties facing applications for major developments in the AONB, has raised fans expectations of the virtual certainty of success of the Falmer Stadium application. Now one inquiry inspector has found the local plan stadium element to be unacceptable. We await the stadium inquiry inspectors report.
In this scenario it is time that fans stopped trying to shoot the messenger because they don’t like the message, and instead concentrate on those who wrote the message. B&H Albion directors and senior B&H councillors knew that the Falmer site was very small, initially only eight acres site, in a protected AONB. They were aware of much bigger alternative sites with lesser degrees of planning protection, but decided to take a risky and expensive gamble, to try and force through the planning system a massive stadium development on farmland AONB at Falmer.
The answers below from Falmer Parish Council to some of the rhetoric used by the club and its supporters indicate why that gamble may fail :
1. B&H Albion – The Local Plan inspector in refusing a stadium at Falmer is denying B&H a stadium.
Falmer PC – The inspector is not denying a stadium for B&H but is stating, after hearing all the evidence and visiting the alternative sites, that Falmer is not the appropriate place. There are alternative sites. If Falmer didn’t exist an alternative would have already been found.
2. B&H Albion – B&H Albions survival in the Football League is in the national interest.
Falmer PC – Not so. Many towns and cities exist quite well without a football league club. Clubs are relegated from the football league and replaced by clubs from the feeder leagues every season, under league rules. No claim of national interest or any other interest is allowed from any relegated club.
There has been virtually no coverage of the B&H stadium issue in the national media, It is not of national interest and it has raised little interest outside immediate football circles.
3. B&H Albion – B&H Albion cannot survive financially at the Withdean Stadium.
Falmer PC – Withdean currently has nearly 7,000 seats and will have 9,000 next season. Capacity there could be increased still further, or even a new stadium built. At least 19 or 20 clubs in the Football League operate on crowds of less than 8,000, often considerably less. The Albion are taking over the Ecovert contract at Withdean this year which will bring them in extra income. As the inspector indicated the club can certainly survive at Withdean and have the option to seek a new alternative site.
4. B&H Albion – If B&H Albion fell out of the Football League a large area of the south coast would be without a Football League club.
Falmer PC – Evidence in the form of maps showing the location of Football League clubs was presented at the inquiry. These showed that clubs are not located evenly to serve areas of population but have been located historically by accident and the vagueries of the league’s relegation and promotion rules. We have indicated above that if the Albion, or any other club, were relegated under these rules no consideration would be given by the Football League to national interest, location, or any other issue..
5. B&H Albion – Without B&H Albion the local economy would suffer significantly.
Falmer PC – This is completely unfounded. B&H economic records were presented at the inquiry that showed when B&H Albion were ground sharing at Gillingham there was no impact on the B&H economy. University projects were also shown to indicate there was no evidence of economic benefits to local communities from a stadium. The inspector at the Arsenal stadium inquiry also confirmed that no evidence of stadium linked economic benefits existed and that many large football clubs were sited in areas of extreme deprivation with no apparent local benefit.
6. B&H Albion – John Prescott should ignore the Local Plan inspector’s report on the Falmer Stadium proposals and instead listen to football fans.
Falmer PC - Why should John Prescott ignore the advice of an independent, professional inspector who is familiar with related planning policies, has seen and heard the evidence from all sides and has visited and inspected all the alternative sites - for the views of uninformed football fans. Many do not live in the Brighton area, many do not know Falmer or the alternative sites, are unfamiliar with national, local or structure plan policies , and have seen or heard none of the evidence from any of the parties to the inquiry. !
7. B&H Albion – B&H could lose its labour MPs if a stadium at Falmer is not allowed.
Falmer PC – This is a serious attempt to politicise the Falmer issue and the planning system. It is a discredit to those, including some B&H MPs, who are suggesting it. Football fans vastly overestimate their influence on local or national elections and have tried this sort of blackmail unsuccessfully before. In the 2003 B&H local elections the Labour Party, who have been blind supporters of a stadium at Falmer, lost many seats and their control of the council. The Green Party, who oppose a stadium at Falmer, won a record number of seats. Local and national electors, many not interested in football, have many more serious concerns, council tax, reductions in local services, hospitals, education, Iraq war, pensions etc.
8. B&H Albion – Falmer is the only possible site. Other sites all have problems.
Falmer PC – The Falmer site also has many problems but B&H Albion have sought solutions there (often expensive), but not at the alternative sites.
It has been demonstrated at the inquiry that the alternative site survey, the referendum and site selection process were seriously flawed.
Falmer PC members have visited a number of new stadiums around the country and researched many new stadiums and related football issues. The PC also carried out its own survey of the alternative sites in B&H showing there are alternatives. It was shown at the inquiry that six out of eight new stadiums built in the last ten years do not have a railway station nearby and many have no better transport access than many of the alternative B&H sites. Many of the alternative B&H sites are much larger than Falmer and would allow wider community and commercial enabling development. No enabling development is possible at Falmer making it financially high risk.
9. B&H Albion – The Local Plan Inspector has ignored the clubs evidence for the Falmer site and local needs and problems.
Falmer PC - The inspector has ignored nothing. He has heard all the evidence presented by the club and has visited and inspected all alternative sites. Much of the evidence by the club was challenged by opponents as being inaccurate or unfounded. The inspector then drew his own conclusions referring to the planning policies and restrictions that exist.
10. B&H Albion – If the Falmer site is refused B&H Albion will disappear and all its good work in the community will be lost.
Falmer PC – Both of these claims are untrue. We have indicated earlier that B&H Albion, even at Withdean, have the same prospects of survival as many other football league clubs.
Also, many towns and communities in the UK do not have a Football League club but junior football and sports in those areas, and the community, survive without them. Junior sports country wide are in the main maintained by committed parents and non league and amateur clubs, without help from professional clubs.
In educational terms Brighton has many academic institutions, including schools, colleges and two universities all serving the community and capable of delivering educational, IT and other training to all ages.
There is a failing media college at Sheepcote Valley threatened with closure. Perhaps a stadium located there, with very direct links to the college would help maintain it to serve the community again ?.
All of these claims by B&H Albion, and many others, have been aired thoroughly and challenged at the public inquiries. Opponents to the Falmer Stadium proposals have also pointed out serious flaws in the club’s planning application in areas like alternative sites, transport, access, parking, environmental and landscape impact and the financial stability of a stadium without other enabling development. It is now up to independent, professional planning, inspectors to report their findings to the Secretary of State and for him to make a decision on the planning issues, unaffected by the often unfounded rhetoric or political blackmail now being employed by B&H Albion via post inquiry lobbying of John Prescott, outside the planning process and untested at a public inquiry.
SurreySeagulls
Well-known member
IMHO it is a smoke screen designed to keep people guessing as to what they potentially could do. I would be surprised if they could afford the potetnial costs of taking on the Government and proving the Government acted unlawfully.
rogue
Banned
Let them take on the governement.They are wasting there time.How can you take the government on
Albion Dan
Banned
If they proceed then they are Mugs, I cant see the Council helping them out now so they are on their own and they have no chance of winning.
Normal Rob
Well-known member
this is a classic...
4. B&H already have a community stadium in Brighton, at Withdean, which is not excessively used so why do they need another? They don’t. If the football club did not need a ground a community stadium would not be on the agenda
words fail me
4. B&H already have a community stadium in Brighton, at Withdean, which is not excessively used so why do they need another? They don’t. If the football club did not need a ground a community stadium would not be on the agenda
words fail me
Curious Orange
Punxsatawney Phil
That list of stuff is very old, so not really worth dredging over again.
Judicial review looks at the lawfulness of actions and decisions. These can be challenged on a number of grounds, which are usually described as follows:
illegality;
irrationality; and,
unfairness.
Illegality Public bodies must correctly understand and apply the law that regulates their decision making powers. An action or decision may be unlawful if the decision maker had no power to make it or exceeded the powers given to him/her. Four kinds of illegal activity may be identified :
refusing to act in a certain way in a mistaken belief that the law does not allow the body to act in that way;
misuse of discretion- e.g. using a discretionary power for the wrong purpose or in the wrong circumstances, or putting unlawful limits on the exercise of discretion (often called fettering of discretion and typically applying a local policy rigidly);
taking irrelevant factors into account or failing to take account of all relevant factors; and,
failing to take account of the Human Rights Act 1998. This short guide cannot deal with the details of the 1998 Act. See Is it lawful? and links.
Irrationality The court can reverse a decision if it is so unreasonable as to be “perverse” or “irrational”. Arguing that a decision is irrational is extremely difficult and such claims are usually linked to challenges based on illegality and/or unfairness, if this is possible.
Unfairness This deals with the process for reaching a decision and includes the right to a fair hearing (which includes the rule against bias). Also the courts have recently extended the idea of fairness to prevent abuses of power where public bodies have sought to go back, without sufficient justification, on promises made (called 'legitimate expectations').
http://www.publiclawproject.org.uk/simpleguide.html
Or for the short had version:
"They carn't do f*** all unless they can prove the decision taken by the ODPM was either:
illegal
irrational or
unfair."
illegality;
irrationality; and,
unfairness.
Illegality Public bodies must correctly understand and apply the law that regulates their decision making powers. An action or decision may be unlawful if the decision maker had no power to make it or exceeded the powers given to him/her. Four kinds of illegal activity may be identified :
refusing to act in a certain way in a mistaken belief that the law does not allow the body to act in that way;
misuse of discretion- e.g. using a discretionary power for the wrong purpose or in the wrong circumstances, or putting unlawful limits on the exercise of discretion (often called fettering of discretion and typically applying a local policy rigidly);
taking irrelevant factors into account or failing to take account of all relevant factors; and,
failing to take account of the Human Rights Act 1998. This short guide cannot deal with the details of the 1998 Act. See Is it lawful? and links.
Irrationality The court can reverse a decision if it is so unreasonable as to be “perverse” or “irrational”. Arguing that a decision is irrational is extremely difficult and such claims are usually linked to challenges based on illegality and/or unfairness, if this is possible.
Unfairness This deals with the process for reaching a decision and includes the right to a fair hearing (which includes the rule against bias). Also the courts have recently extended the idea of fairness to prevent abuses of power where public bodies have sought to go back, without sufficient justification, on promises made (called 'legitimate expectations').
http://www.publiclawproject.org.uk/simpleguide.html
Or for the short had version:
"They carn't do f*** all unless they can prove the decision taken by the ODPM was either:
illegal
irrational or
unfair."
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Norman Baker suck my lozenge
New member
haven't used forfars since cutress stuck her ulgly mug into proceedings,the donuts have f*** all jam in them anywayUncle Buck said:
Yoda
English & European
www.falmer.org says
Picture of Falmer Village taken from the Church. The top of the stadium would be seen above the trees on the left.
Oh Please!!!!!
We're sinking the stadium INTO the ground, not raising it up to build it.
www.falmer.org says
North view from the edge of the field where the coach park would be.
That can't be right. Where's Stamner Park and it's whacking great big hill?
www.falmer.org says
A view From Falmer North to Falmer South. The stadium would be in the field on the right.
DON'T GET ME STARTED ON THIS ONE
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Yoda
English & European
Hmmm! Those photo's aren't that big on their site.
Bakesy
Farting for ENGLAND!!!
Vent your anger here..................Melanie Cutress 01273 605617
West Hoathly Seagull
Honorary Ruffian
Oh how I love this one. It just goes to show that NIMBYs don't give a stuff about their fellows in other areas, doesn't it?
3. B&H Albion – B&H Albion cannot survive financially at the Withdean Stadium.
Falmer PC – Withdean currently has nearly 7,000 seats and will have 9,000 next season. Capacity there could be increased still further, or even a new stadium built. At least 19 or 20 clubs in the Football League operate on crowds of less than 8,000, often considerably less. The Albion are taking over the Ecovert contract at Withdean this year which will bring them in extra income. As the inspector indicated the club can certainly survive at Withdean and have the option to seek a new alternative site.
3. B&H Albion – B&H Albion cannot survive financially at the Withdean Stadium.
Falmer PC – Withdean currently has nearly 7,000 seats and will have 9,000 next season. Capacity there could be increased still further, or even a new stadium built. At least 19 or 20 clubs in the Football League operate on crowds of less than 8,000, often considerably less. The Albion are taking over the Ecovert contract at Withdean this year which will bring them in extra income. As the inspector indicated the club can certainly survive at Withdean and have the option to seek a new alternative site.
eastlondonseagull
Well-known member
Curious Orange said:
Yes, it is old mate, but goes to show how poor their grasp on reality is. My fear is that some doddery old fool with a wig on might object to our peaceful and comic campaigning and rule that Two Jags made his decision on that
Not that they've got a chance of raising enough cash, unless Hoegstratten or whatever his name is lends them a mill or two.
Bwian
Kiss my (_!_)
- Jul 14, 2003
- 15,898
Curious Orange said:
That won't prevent that evil bitch Cutress from railroading the rest of the village into fighting the decision...
We'll probably get notification of their intent to challenge (and we can almost guarantee they will) the ODPM on the last day-if for no other reason than to make us wait even longer before we can start building.