EU and AstraZeneca

[Neville's Breakfast]

Sorry, you quoted this so I assumed this was what you were referring to.

I was. You claimed we were operating under the jurisdiction of the EU therefore the fact we went alone proves that anyone could. Peston says otherwise about the ability of the Inclusive Vaccine Alliance to go it alone. Either we were out and went alone or we were in and would have had to conform to the EU’s insistence on controlling the negotiations. Peston does not say Germany and the others decided against going alone. He says they were given no choice. So I will ask you again; do you know different ?

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

https://youtu.be/zugWMq_NHcE
worth a listen
regards
DF

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Sorry, you quoted this so I assumed this was what you were referring to.

*edit* I've looked at post 257 and that post is nothing to do with it ?

The very simple fact is that Brexit (or whether the UK was in or out of the EU) had absolutely no effect on the speed at which the UK approved or ordered the vaccine, and yet this falsehood is repeated constantly

Sorry, I meant post 265 and leaving the EU has everything to do with the relative success of the UK’s vaccination strategy. Ask the Inclusive Vaccine Alliance.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I was. You claimed we were operating under the jurisdiction of the EU therefore the fact we went alone proves that anyone could. Peston says otherwise about the ability of the Inclusive Vaccine Alliance to go it alone. Either we were out and went alone or we were in and would have had to conform to the EU’s insistence on controlling the negotiations. Peston does not say Germany and the others decided against going alone. He says they were given no choice. So I will ask you again; do you know different ?

Then yes, he is wrong. Any EU member could do exactly what the UK and Hungary did using EU law.

“If the need arises, regulation 174, in its present form, could be used to authorise nationwide distribution and supply of an unlicensed COVID-19 vaccine (or treatment) in any the UK, as well as other potential products.

“In practice, this means that, if a suitable COVID-19 vaccine candidate – with strong supporting evidence of safety, quality and efficacy – became available before the end of the transition period but it had not yet been licensed by the European Medicines Agency, regulation 174 could be used to enable temporary UK-only deployment.”

The German health minister also says that Peston is wrong.

The German health minister, Jens Spahn said that it was a matter of choice: “We have member states including, Germany, who could have issued such an emergency authorisation if we’d wanted to. But we decided against this and what we opted for was a common European approach to move forward together”.

I really don't know how many more ways I can explain it

 

[Chicken Run]

But we decided against this and what we opted for was a common European approach to move forward together”.

I really don't know how many more ways I can explain it

Move forward together, The Germans haven’t approved the drug for the over 65’s, the Italians want to sue and the French well there you go, yep the European Empire are definitely moving but it ain’t forward and it ain’t together [emoji6]




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[Cheshire Cat]

It sounds like a load of European politicians having a major hizzy fit and panicking because they don't understand the vagaries of mass producing a vaccine in almost no time at all



It's not an edifying sight.

 

[Jim in the West]

Yes, you are right to point this out of course. All these numbers are significant underestimates. The UK was doing negligible testing in the first few months, so the 100,000+ number of deaths 'within 28 days of a positive Covid test' is more like 120,000+. A significant number of early deaths were discounted when the 'within 28 days of a positive test' criteria was added.

It is why Excess deaths is always the best figure to compare across countries, rather than any Government defined criteria.

You are right about Excess Deaths (they also implicitly measure the resilience of the country's healthcare system, as they'll include deaths from non-covid causes which were likely a result of delays to heart/cancer/other diagnoses).

The FT has a good comparison of Excess Deaths for 2020 across Europe (and many other countries). The UK figure is 18% higher deaths. No other European country is above this figure EXCEPT Spain (24%). We can probably assume the Spanish covid data collection was worse than other countries. Germany had a 4% higher death rate, by the way. In Norway and Denmark the death rates last year were actually slightly BELOW the 5 year average!!

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Move forward together, The Germans haven’t approved the drug for the over 65’s, the Italians want to sue and the French well there you go, yep the European Empire are definitely moving but it ain’t forward and it ain’t together [emoji6]




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

his arguments are like a rotting pair of jeans falling apart at the seams bless him, good entertainment value i'll grant him that
regards
DF

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Then yes, he is wrong. Any EU member could do exactly what the UK and Hungary did using EU law.

“If the need arises, regulation 174, in its present form, could be used to authorise nationwide distribution and supply of an unlicensed COVID-19 vaccine (or treatment) in any the UK, as well as other potential products.

“In practice, this means that, if a suitable COVID-19 vaccine candidate – with strong supporting evidence of safety, quality and efficacy – became available before the end of the transition period but it had not yet been licensed by the European Medicines Agency, regulation 174 could be used to enable temporary UK-only deployment.”

The German health minister also says that Peston is wrong.

The German health minister, Jens Spahn said that it was a matter of choice: “We have member states including, Germany, who could have issued such an emergency authorisation if we’d wanted to. But we decided against this and what we opted for was a common European approach to move forward together”.

I really don't know how many more ways I can explain it

Fair enough. I await Peston’s correction

 

[Chicken Run]

his arguments are like a rotting pair of jeans falling apart at the seams bless him, good entertainment value i'll grant him that
regards
DF

One wonders whether this example of “together “ won’t be the last Imperial clusterfjuck [emoji6]


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[Pretty pink fairy]

One wonders whether this example of “together “ won’t be the last Imperial clusterfjuck [emoji6]


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I wait in anticipation
regards
DF

 

[rigton70]

Almost as amazing as the usual Johnson supporters not being able to see why we already have the highest death rates due to his Government's slowness / arrogance / stupidity / red tape (delete as you feel free). Forgetting completely about the blatant cronyism in contracts awarded in the last year. But feel free to defend the record of those you voted for. Good luck in getting your French citizenship.

The highest death rate here might be because we are the fattest in Europe. Obesity has risen 70% in the last 20 years. If covid at hit then then we would be in line with the rest of Europe. You can't blame the government for us being fat fu**ers

 

[Rogero]

I notice that Serbia are doing well with the vaccinations. They are outside the EU and are being supplied by China.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

https://youtu.be/0EpBKfblL00
More interesting listening
Regards
DF

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I notice that Serbia are doing well with the vaccinations. They are outside the EU and are being supplied by China.

I think the EU and the UK are right to exclude the possibility of placing vaccine orders with Russia and China. There would be little public confidence in either.

 

[knocky1]

The highest death rate here might be because we are the fattest in Europe. Obesity has risen 70% in the last 20 years. If covid at hit then then we would be in line with the rest of Europe. You can't blame the government for us being fat fu**ers

I blame the Government. The much vaunted sugar tax never materialised. British Sugar PLC are up there with the biggest donors to the Tory Party.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

I blame the Government. The much vaunted sugar tax never materialised. British Sugar PLC are up there with the biggest donors to the Tory Party.

Because previous governments addressed it so effectively!


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[WATFORD zero]

I think the EU and the UK are right to exclude the possibility of placing vaccine orders with Russia and China. There would be little public confidence in either.

But I think we can agree that both Pfizer and AstraZeneca are at full production (although hopefully increasing hugely) and I don't think Moderna are in the running yet. Maybe I'm being particularly insular, but if the UK and EU are their major customers, if one increases their volume of the vaccine available, the other will have to reduce accordingly (whatever the arguments are for right or wrong).

Personally I am a little worried by the fact the EU, as a customer, is nearly 10 times bigger than the UK, as I believe the UK is doing a good job on vaccines and really don't want to see that compromised. Unfortunately I suspect that is all in the hands of the contract specialists

 

[Eeyore]

https://youtu.be/0EpBKfblL00
More interesting listening
Regards
DF

The unfortunate thing here, as a German friend has pointed out to me, is how the issue with Astra Zenica is being politicised in the media formats in a toxic way. The issue sane folk didn't want to be.

The resident fairy's smelly dumps on this thread being a prime example.

 

[rigton70]

I blame the Government. The much vaunted sugar tax never materialised. British Sugar PLC are up there with the biggest donors to the Tory Party.

Not to sure the sugar tax would of stopped us growing 70% in 20 years. The reason we have a high death rate compared to EU is that we are fat. You only have to look at USA death rate to see this.