England v South Africa - 1st Test - The Oval

[keaton]

While I can see why some people would want five bowlers, would the fifth bowler end up doing much? And Prior at 7 gives him so much more freedom.
It seems to work at the moment and Bopara could solve the issue as he's good enough bowler to bowl 5-10 overs an innings

 

[hans kraay fan club]

While I can see why some people would want five bowlers, would the fifth bowler end up doing much? And Prior at 7 gives him so much more freedom.
It seems to work at the moment and Bopara could solve the issue as he's good enough bowler to bowl 5-10 overs an innings

Your fifth bowler is there to help you bowl sides out. How many test wickets does Bopara have?

 

[Simster]

While I can see why some people would want five bowlers, would the fifth bowler end up doing much? And Prior at 7 gives him so much more freedom.
It seems to work at the moment and Bopara could solve the issue as he's good enough bowler to bowl 5-10 overs an innings

We bat competently a long way down the order, so I really don't understand why we don't pick a 5th bowler. I reckon if we'd had a dry summer, the wicket at the Oval would have been quite flat, and a 5th bowler would have been a no-brainer. As it is, it probably won't make a huge difference.

 

[keaton]

Your fifth bowler is there to help you bowl sides out. How many test wickets does Bopara have?

We're bowling side out pretty easily (even when we lost in Pakistan) why do we need a fifth bowler?

How many good sides have had five frontline bowlers?

 

[Pavilionaire]

I think asking "Why don't England pick a 5th bowler" is like asking "Why don't Spain play a striker" when David Villa is injured. Both sides are No.1 in the world.

 

[Titanic]

50 for Cook and the 100 partnership... 103-1 (30.1 overs)

Cook 50* Trott 36*

 

[hans kraay fan club]

How many good sides have had five frontline bowlers?

South Africa.

Kallis, Steyn, Morkel, Philander, Tahir.

Of course it is having Kallis which enables them to do so. Which is what we are suggesting Bresnan can do for England.



Australia's last Test:

Five; Harris, Starc, Hilfenaus, Lyon and Watson - with Watson as 'Bresnan'

India's last Test:

Five; Z Khan, Yadav, Ashwin, Ishant Sharma and Sehwag as 'Bresnan'

 

[Titanic]

South Africa.

Kallis, Steyn, Morkel, Philander, Tahir.

Of course it is having Kallis which enales them to do so. Which is what we are suggesting Bresnan can do for England.

It works best with a world class batsmen who can bowl - i.e. Kallis, not Bresnan!

 

[Simster]

It works best with a world class batsmen who can bowl - i.e. Kallis, not Bresnan!

Exactly. The fat boer is a world class batsman primarily, so not really a fair comparison!

 

[keaton]

South Africa.

Kallis, Steyn, Morkel, Philander, Tahir.

Of course it is having Kallis which enales them to do so. Which is what we are suggesting Bresnan can do for England.

Kallis is one of the best batsmen in the world and probably the best all-rounder ever, it's bit different

South Africa normally pick 6 batsmen, a keeper, four bowlers. One of thier batsmen is a brilliant bowler, but they haven't picked five bowlers

 

[hans kraay fan club]

, but they haven't picked five bowlers

Yes they have. One of them, happily for them, is a top batsmen, but he IS still a bowler - all their plans would be drawn up with 15-20 overs per innings from Kallis in mind.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

It works best with a world class batsmen who can bowl - i.e. Kallis, not Bresnan!

I wasn't actually suggesting that Bresnan would bat at 3.

 

[simmo]

We bat competently a long way down the order, so I really don't understand why we don't pick a 5th bowler. I reckon if we'd had a dry summer, the wicket at the Oval would have been quite flat, and a 5th bowler would have been a no-brainer. As it is, it probably won't make a huge difference.

I think the question of a 5th bowler is down to the quality of your spinner. If you have a good spinner whom can't be blasted out of an attack then he can pretty much whirl away at one end and the quickies can rotate round him, if they don't make early in-roads, e.g Shane Warne, Graham Swann.

If you have a sh1te spinner like a Robert Croft you need 5 bowlers, because a woeful spinner that doesn't spin the ball can be blasted out of an attack.

England now don't need a 5th, Bopara and Trott between them can fill in the 5th bowler requirements.

 

[Kumquat]

Fair point, but Flintoff was a very late developer. I did once see stats from the first half and the second half of his career and they were marked ly different.

On another stat note, this one is interesting. Steyn's bowling average against right handers is 18.44 and against lefties 31.67

 

[keaton]

South Africa.

Kallis, Steyn, Morkel, Philander, Tahir.

Of course it is having Kallis which enables them to do so. Which is what we are suggesting Bresnan can do for England.



Australia's last Test:

Five; Harris, Starc, Hilfenaus, Lyon and Watson - with Watson as 'Bresnan'

India's last Test:

Five; Z Khan, Yadav, Ashwin, Ishant Sharma and Sehwag as 'Bresnan'

If we gonna be childish Australia had a seven man attack with Clarke and Hussey as well.
As did India with Kohli and Tendulker.

 

[Titanic]

Fair point, but Flintoff was a very late developer. I did once see stats from the first half and the second half of his career and they were marked ly different.

On another stat note, this one is interesting. Steyn's bowling average against right handers is 18.44 and against lefties 31.67

To put that in context, I wonder what are the test averages for left/right handers over the same period?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

If we gonna be childish Australia had a seven man attack with Clarke and Hussey as well.
As did India with Kohli and Tendulker.

That would just be silly, as none of those would actually BOWL, except in dire circumstances. Kallis, Sehwag and Watson would all have been expected to contribute significant spells.

 

[keaton]

That would just be silly, as none of those would actually BOWL, except in dire circumstances. Kallis, Sehwag and Watson would all have been expected to contribute significant spells.

Tendulker has 45 test wickets. I would say it's as silly as this argument we're having.

I would say the players you've listed are all batting all-rounders. If we had one then we should play him but a the moment we don't. I'd say in the last two years our batting has looked weaker than the bowling, and it would make no sense to weaken the batting and shape of the team when it has got us to number 1.

 

[Titanic]

That would just be silly, as none of those would actually BOWL, except in dire circumstances. Kallis, Sehwag and Watson would all have been expected to contribute significant spells.

and all three are primarily batsmen, unlike Mr Bresnan.

 

[Titanic]

50 up for Trott... 135-1 (44.5 overs)

Cook 64* Trott 50*