[Cricket] England v New Zealand - 1st Test - Lords

[Braggfan]

That sounds incredibly harsh. And it sets one hell of a precedent. We are talking about some stupid tweets he sent a long time ago, for which he has apologised. I’m also not sure what purpose a ban would serve as Robinson knows he was an idiot back then and his successful efforts to change his ways began years ago.

On the plus side, at least Sussex would win a few games if he was back.

I don't want to have a pop at you, so please don't take this as dig. But I just want to point out that I didn't actually say a punishment, I just said throw the book at him. So I don't think it's incredibly harsh when no specific punishment has been mentioned. If you think 'throwing the book' is incredibly harsh, fair enough, but that could constitute a lot of things with a broad interpretation. I also think asking someone to be accountable for there's actions isn't a 'hell of a precedent', I think it's the cornerstone of our society.

Personally I think he should be dropped from the rest of the series/summer. And the purpose of that, is not to teach him a lesson or get him to rehabilitate, its to send a clear message to other players and a broader message to society in general. Whether we think he's a changed person, and I think he probably is, his past behaviour has, even in a small way, contributed to the social media culture that we've all been debating recently. The only way you can change that is by clearly defining behaviours as wrong, and outlining the consequences of actions.

I feel sorry for Robinson if he's a changed person, it is a shame no doubt, but there is only one person responsible for where he finds himself. If he truly is sorry and wants to put him behind him, then he has to face up to the consequences. Otherwise the message that the ECB are trying to change, and that we as a society won't tolerate that online behaviour, rings very hollow.

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

Firstly I think you've made one very big assumption there, "he got sacked by Yorkshire and let go by Kent for his lifestyle. That would have included these tweets". I haven't seen them brought to the public attention before, and those clubs didn't mention them as a reason for him being let go or sacked. In fact they were quite specfic about why he got let go/sacked and it didn't include that.

Unless somebody brings a specific incident where this has been addressed or he's apologised, the only thing that anyone can go on is that he made these comments along time ago and up until yesterday they hadn't been acknowledged.

If he has previously apologised then that's different, but if he hasn't then the question at what point do past actions stop following him around has a simple answer. He is accountable to them until he has acknowledged and apologised for them. You say he's clearly a different person, and shown a capacity to change, but the counter arugment to this would be ignoring them and only acknowedging them when you've been called out and facing potential sanctions shows the complete opposite.

Personally I do think he has matured, and he probably does regret these comments. I'm also gutted as I really wanted him to be a success, but this is a bigger issue than Robinson. It's about setting a precedent and a standard to which all players adhere to in the future. It can't be brushed under the carpet. If this is the first time it's come up then it needs to be dealt with and he needs to have the book thrown at him. We can't sit there and say one week that racism and sexism on social media is abhorrent and we need to take a stand, and then the next week find ways to let that behaviour exist.

If Robinson is a racist now, or otherwise thinks those tweets are remotely acceptable, then he shouldn't be anywhere near the England or Sussex team.

If he isn't, what are you actually punishing him for? You can't retrospectively make somebody a better person 8 years ago. Clearly he is ultimately responsible for the things that he has written and left on twitter for people to find, and if the punishment for that is a fine, missing the next game (which he might have been rotated out for anyway) and/or whatever additional training etc. is needed to drill some sense into him, then that's absolutely fit and proper. But you can't throw somebody who isn't racist or sexist under the bus just to make a point.

At the moment, we don't know what his actual current view of the sentiments expressed in those tweets is. So any discussion of what his punishment should be is meaningless.

It shouldn't be a surprise to anybody that Yorkshire CCC need to take a good hard look at themselves when it comes to racism. But both Sussex and England should have been aware of this and dealt with it years ago.

 

[A1X]

I'm really disappointed by this whole issue. Obviously like a lot of Sussex fans who were enjoying the first day and Robinson's debut I was genuinley shocked to read about the tweets. The truth is I do think they were comments made by a immature stupid kid, BUT I do strongly believe that actions have consequences and regardless of whether he was immature or not, this issue is bigger than Ollie Robinson. Therefore I absolutely think he should dropped from the rest of the series and the ECB need to be seen to take a hard line on racism and sexism. Sadly for Robinson if his international career ends up paying the price for his old actions, then that's how it has to be.

My problem with this is that it almost certainly means the selection of Craig Overton, a man who was accused by three people of racially abusing someone during a game a few years ago and to this day denies he did it (as recently as about three days ago). In my opinion, if the ECB choose to make a scapegoat of Robinson and then select Overton, then they instantly lose any credibility they may be hoping to gain from this, and more.

 

[Braggfan]

My problem with this is that it almost certainly means the selection of Craig Overton, a man who was accused by three people of racially abusing someone during a game a few years ago and to this day denies he did it (as recently as about three days ago). In my opinion, if the ECB choose to make a scapegoat of Robinson and then select Overton, then they instantly lose any credibility they may be hoping to gain from this, and more.

Of course, Overton should never get anywhere near an England team again. And yes if they drop Robinson and then pick Overton that would be crazy.

 

[Braggfan]

If Robinson is a racist now, or otherwise thinks those tweets are remotely acceptable, then he shouldn't be anywhere near the England or Sussex team.

If he isn't, what are you actually punishing him for? You can't retrospectively make somebody a better person 8 years ago. Clearly he is ultimately responsible for the things that he has written and left on twitter for people to find, and if the punishment for that is a fine, missing the next game (which he might have been rotated out for anyway) and/or whatever additional training etc. is needed to drill some sense into him, then that's absolutely fit and proper. But you can't throw somebody who isn't racist or sexist under the bus just to make a point.

At the moment, we don't know what his actual current view of the sentiments expressed in those tweets is. So any discussion of what his punishment should be is meaningless.

It shouldn't be a surprise to anybody that Yorkshire CCC need to take a good hard look at themselves when it comes to racism. But both Sussex and England should have been aware of this and dealt with it years ago.

As i keep saying, it's not about punishing Robinson its about the message you set. He is an England cricketer, there has to be level of conduct that is clear to everyone. If you set the precedent that any player who has made racist and sexist comments can be excused of them by simply coming out at the end of a days play and saying, sorry im a changed person now, then we're going down a dangerous path. This isn't just about racism and sexism, it's against the backdrop where in recent weeks players receiving racist abuse online has been widely debated. How can we say that's wrong, and then just ignore this problem because someone says that was a long time ago, I'm not like that anymore. I'm sorry but that just doesn't wash. You need to set the standard regardless of who the player is.

Personally I think the best thing Robinson could do, would be to withdraw himself from the squad as an act of contrition. I think that would go a long way to making it clear he regrets the past, and would give him a point to start moving forwards from.

 

[cjd]

What an utterly nauseating poster Braggfan is. He is clearly having his 10 minutes of fame on here.....IMO.( Do I get a ban for that ? )

 

[Braggfan]

What an utterly nauseating poster Braggfan is. ( Do I get a ban for that ? )

I've had worse.

 

[cjd]

I've had worse.

I wonder why I am not at all surprised.

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

As i keep saying, it's not about punshing Robinson its about the message you set. He is an England cricketer, there has to be level of conduct that is clear to everyone. If you set the precedent that any player who has made racist and sexist comments can be excused of them by simply coming out at the end of a days play and saying, sorry im a changed person now, then we're going down a dangerous path. This isn't just about racism and sexism, it's against the backdrop where in recent weeks players recieving racist abuse online has been widely debated. How can we say that's wrong, and then just ignore this problem because someone says that was a long time ago, I'm not like that anymore. I'm sorry but that just doesn't wash. You need to set the standard regardless of who the player is.

Personally I think the best thing Robinson could do, would be to withdraw himself from the squad as an act of contrition. I think that would go a long way to making it clear he regrets the past, and would give him a point to start moving forwards from.

You can't send a message by "sanctioning", "throwing the book at" or ending Robinson's career, without punishing him. That simply doesn't make sense.

He is responsible for his own twitter account, and should be dropped from the squad for the next game for the content of those tweets. But that's not going to change anything about online abuse, or the wider discussions about racism in English cricket. And pointing at Robinson as an individual is only going to distract from those issues.

 

[Braggfan]

He is clearly having his 10 minutes of fame on here.....IMO.( Do I get a ban for that ? )

In fairness to you, I have been banging on a bit this morning. I think I've made my point, so I will give it a rest.

 

[Brovion]

I'm really disappointed by this whole issue. Obviously like a lot of Sussex fans who were enjoying the first day and Robinson's debut I was genuinley shocked to read about the tweets. The truth is I do think they were comments made by a immature stupid kid, BUT I do strongly believe that actions have consequences and regardless of whether he was immature or not, this issue is bigger than Ollie Robinson. Therefore I absolutely think he should dropped from the rest of the series and the ECB need to be seen to take a hard line on racism and sexism. Sadly for Robinson if his international career ends up paying the price for his old actions, then that's how it has to be.

There is no point in debating this (as we won't agree) but I totally disagree with you. Dropping him for the rest of the series would be a massive and draconian overreaction.

 

[A1X]

Wood gets Nicholls (caught Robinson), 288/4

 

[Is it PotG?]

9/1 ish on England right now.

Levels the draw/NZ

 

[A1X]

Wood also gets Watling, 292/5

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

Two wickets for Wood today, I'm not sure on a pitch like this having two genuine quicks would probably be of more value than 3 mid-80s seamers.

 

[A1X]

Two wickets for Wood today, I'm not sure on a pitch like this having two genuine quicks would probably be of more value than 3 mid-80s seamers.

I'd suggest an extra outright quick (e.g. Stone) or a spinner (Leach) for Broad is probably looking like the right way to go TBH

 

[A1X]

Robbo strikes! de Grandhomme LBW.

293/6

 

[Hotchilidog]

As i keep saying, it's not about punishing Robinson its about the message you set. He is an England cricketer, there has to be level of conduct that is clear to everyone. If you set the precedent that any player who has made racist and sexist comments can be excused of them by simply coming out at the end of a days play and saying, sorry im a changed person now, then we're going down a dangerous path. This isn't just about racism and sexism, it's against the backdrop where in recent weeks players receiving racist abuse online has been widely debated. How can we say that's wrong, and then just ignore this problem because someone says that was a long time ago, I'm not like that anymore. I'm sorry but that just doesn't wash. You need to set the standard regardless of who the player is.

Personally I think the best thing Robinson could do, would be to withdraw himself from the squad as an act of contrition. I think that would go a long way to making it clear he regrets the past, and would give him a point to start moving forwards from.

I completely disagree. If he made those tweets this week or even this year, then clearly yes throw the book. You should not be throwing the book at someone for something they did nearly 10 years and from which they have learned over the intervening time period.

As a young man Robinson was a complete idiot, he has now grown. Robinson is not the same off-the-rails hot head he was in youth, he has taken steps since then to get his life on track and he appears to have done a pretty good job of that. It sets a bad and possibly dangerous precedent to punish him now for something done so long ago.

The message you are sending out by pursuing this now is that it doesn't matter what you do to sort yourself out we'll ignore it and punish you anyway.

 

[A1X]

Wood has 3, NZ 294/7 from being 288/3

Are you Sussex in disguise?

 

[Giraffe]

I love an opposition collapse. Love it.