[Politics] Dominic Cummings v H&SC and S&T select committees *Official Match Thread*

[Neville's Breakfast]

Or is it possible that his answers gave a more plausible explanation of the actual known facts around Care homes, PPE, Track and Trace and Lockdown than any we have heard in the regular Government briefings to date ? And I can understand you reserving judgement until we know whether Johnson and Hancock can come up with a more plausible explanation than they have at all the various briefings up to now.

Yes, of course it is possible.

 

[darkwolf666]

That's interesting. I can't think of anyone who doesn't remain convinced that Cummings is a serial liar when it suits him.
It's just whether you believe it suited him on Wednesday to be mainly truthful or not....
If he has supporting evidence I am sure he will produce it.

I am sure, if Cummings was not telling the truth then Johnson and Hancock would be consulting their lawyers with regards libel, as opposed to Mr Hancock's, "that's not my recollection" response.

Clearly it may not be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God, but it's close enough!

 

[Lever]

Or whether his view tallies with one’s own. It is entirely possible that he is telling the truth. I’m reserving judgement. It’s just odd when continually told by people that he can’t be trusted to suddenly find those same people saying we should believe him on this occasion because what he is saying fits their view.

Fair enough; both have trashed the reputation of government anyway. In the whole scheme of things if someone told me I should believe one criminal liar over another I would ignore that advice and keep an open mind. Their powers to lie persuasively are well established....

 

[Randy McNob]

No, I mean the chap who continually parades his contempt for the general population and shoehorns Brexit into just about every discussion. Fill your boots if that’s your world view as well.

strange, I don't notice that, although he does give short shrift to conspiracy theorists and people who present opinion as fact, I understand that may come across as condescending to others

 

[Randy McNob]

yes, don't believe a word Cummings says, after all his suggestion the Government's handling of the Covid crisis is clearly wide of the mark....we had the best brains in charge

[tweet]1398036136199692288[/tweet]

 

[Thunder Bolt]

[tweet]1398197057622581248[/tweet]

 

[Hugo Rune]

yes, don't believe a word Cummings says, after all his suggestion the Government's handling of the Covid crisis is clearly wide of the mark....we had the best brains in charge

[tweet]1398036136199692288[/tweet]

‘People must make up their own minds’.

Sums up Mr Johnson’s responsibility free libertarian politics. Not for the state to interfere with people’s health choices? Studies show that the late lockdown cost 20,000+ excess lives.

 

[Stato]

We should all be aware that the Government's approach to this matter and the tactic of all of their enablers will be to try to turn this into a binary choice between Cummings and them. At a risk of sounding like our Cetacean Blowhole visitor from Leeds, the correct choice is Mercutio's in Romeo & Juliet: "A plague a' both your houses!"

I've seen the public already falling for this tactic in some of the vox pops that the media have undertaken, with many asking whether, given his record, Cummings is to be trusted. Of course he isn't. He's a snake. We all knew that last year, when those who are now condemning him were bending over backwards to defend him. Most of us knew it before he came into Government. He was brought in by Johnson who is just as much of a snake as he is. The only difference is that Cummings is a viper and Johnson is a fat lazy python. Oscar Brown Jr (and later Al Wilson) made it clear what is going on here nearly sixty years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxVymZxekEw

Johnson took in a snake.
The electorate also took in a snake.

It's a tragedy that thousands died needlessly as a result. It will be another tragedy that this disgrace will be whatabouted and diminished and that the forelock tugging electorate will reason that the snake bit someone else, not them and pick him up again.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

We should all be aware that the Government's approach to this matter and the tactic of all of their enablers will be to try to turn this into a binary choice between Cummings and them. At a risk of sounding like our Cetacean Blowhole visitor from Leeds, the correct choice is Mercutio's in Romeo & Juliet: "A plague a' both your houses!"

I've seen the public already falling for this tactic in some of the vox pops that the media have undertaken, with many asking whether, given his record, Cummings is to be trusted. Of course he isn't. He's a snake. We all knew that last year, when those who are now condemning him were bending over backwards to defend him. Most of us knew it before he came into Government. He was brought in by Johnson who is just as much of a snake as he is. The only difference is that Cummings is a viper and Johnson is a fat lazy python. Oscar Brown Jr (and later Al Wilson) made it clear what is going on here nearly sixty years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxVymZxekEw

Johnson took in a snake.
The electorate also took in a snake.

It's a tragedy that thousands died needlessly as a result. It will be another tragedy that this disgrace will be whatabouted and diminished and that the forelock tugging electorate will reason that the snake bit someone else, not them and pick him up again.

Set a thief to catch a thief.

 

[TugWilson]

I do so hope you didn't get given the Pfizer-Biontec vaccine ? You know, the vaccine developed by a company founded by two Turkish scientists that is based in Germany, which was developed in a collaboration with an American company and manufactured for us in Belgium ? Our only claim to fame in the " first " stakes was the fact we were the first country to license its use and spaffed billions of pounds buying up preferential supply on this and a range of vaccines around the world and the UK in the hope that some or all of them, would work. But, don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant !

Tosh ! and i`m surprised you believe all that

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

yes, don't believe a word Cummings says, after all his suggestion the Government's handling of the Covid crisis is clearly wide of the mark....we had the best brains in charge

[tweet]1398036136199692288[/tweet]

And there we can agree. That shaking hands speech was one of the dumbest things I have ever seen from a politician. At that stage my wife and I were already in isolation from the world and sanitizing our hands if we did go out. Don’t need politicians to make decisions on our personal safety and that video shows why.

 

[Lever]

We should all be aware that the Government's approach to this matter and the tactic of all of their enablers will be to try to turn this into a binary choice between Cummings and them. At a risk of sounding like our Cetacean Blowhole visitor from Leeds, the correct choice is Mercutio's in Romeo & Juliet: "A plague a' both your houses!"

I've seen the public already falling for this tactic in some of the vox pops that the media have undertaken, with many asking whether, given his record, Cummings is to be trusted. Of course he isn't. He's a snake. We all knew that last year, when those who are now condemning him were bending over backwards to defend him. Most of us knew it before he came into Government. He was brought in by Johnson who is just as much of a snake as he is. The only difference is that Cummings is a viper and Johnson is a fat lazy python. Oscar Brown Jr (and later Al Wilson) made it clear what is going on here nearly sixty years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxVymZxekEw

Johnson took in a snake.
The electorate also took in a snake.

It's a tragedy that thousands died needlessly as a result. It will be another tragedy that this disgrace will be whatabouted and diminished and that the forelock tugging electorate will reason that the snake bit someone else, not them and pick him up again.

This is an excellent summary and I fear you may be right in your final prediction. It really goes beyond stupid.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

strange, I don't notice that, although he does give short shrift to conspiracy theorists and people who present opinion as fact, I understand that may come across as condescending to others

And yet he is a conspiracy theorist and continually presents his opinions as fact. You pays your money you takes your choice.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

We should all be aware that the Government's approach to this matter and the tactic of all of their enablers will be to try to turn this into a binary choice between Cummings and them. At a risk of sounding like our Cetacean Blowhole visitor from Leeds, the correct choice is Mercutio's in Romeo & Juliet: "A plague a' both your houses!"

I've seen the public already falling for this tactic in some of the vox pops that the media have undertaken, with many asking whether, given his record, Cummings is to be trusted. Of course he isn't. He's a snake. We all knew that last year, when those who are now condemning him were bending over backwards to defend him. Most of us knew it before he came into Government. He was brought in by Johnson who is just as much of a snake as he is. The only difference is that Cummings is a viper and Johnson is a fat lazy python. Oscar Brown Jr (and later Al Wilson) made it clear what is going on here nearly sixty years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxVymZxekEw

Johnson took in a snake.
The electorate also took in a snake.

It's a tragedy that thousands died needlessly as a result. It will be another tragedy that this disgrace will be whatabouted and diminished and that the forelock tugging electorate will reason that the snake bit someone else, not them and pick him up again.

‘Forelock tugging electorate.’ That really is a classic of the belittling anyone who has a different opinion genre.

 

[Billy the Fish]

strange, I don't notice that, although he does give short shrift to conspiracy theorists and people who present opinion as fact, I understand that may come across as condescending to others

James O'Brien is a skilled broadcaster and I enjoy listening to his show even if I don't always agree with his narrative. One of his biggest skills is convincing people that his opinions are all fact and evidence based.

As with most of this thread it's just your own confirmation bias. O'Brien HATES Boris, Brexit, JRM and most of the current government and funnily enough everyone on this thread, who also share those beliefs, thinks everything he says is evidence and fact based.

Just like they're all willing to take every word of Dominic Cummings as gospel now that he's taken aim at the government, whereas a year ago wouldn't believe anything he said.

 

[zefarelly]

This is an excellent summary and I fear you may be right in your final prediction. It really goes beyond stupid.

Ah the Snake . . . .

https://youtu.be/qSrOXvoNLwg

 

[Stato]

Set a thief to catch a thief.

Exactly. When Thatcher was 'savaged by a sheep' it wasn't particularly relevant that the sheep himself, Geoffrey Howe had conspired in her worst excesses.
When John Dean blew the gaff on Nixon's involvement in Watergate only those who wanted to protect Nixon or themselves said 'Don't listen to him. He's a self-confessed liar!' (Stopping that sentence before it revealed who had instructed him to lie).

This whole parade of incompetents and dissemblers are relying entirely upon the Shaggy defence. Unfortunately, the opposition are such a shambles, that it will be enough. Someone, even Johnson, may lose their job, but the country will still not heed The Who's advice and when we 'Meet the new boss, same as the old boss' they will continue to accept the lie that they were nothing to do with the last decade of mismanagement, self service and ideological attack on the country's institutions.

 

[Lever]

James O'Brien is a skilled broadcaster and I enjoy listening to his show even if I don't always agree with his narrative. One of his biggest skills is convincing people that his opinions are all fact and evidence based.

As with most of this thread it's just your own confirmation bias. O'Brien HATES Boris, Brexit, JRM and most of the current government and funnily enough everyone on this thread, who also share those beliefs, thinks everything he says is evidence and fact based.

Just like they're all willing to take every word of Dominic Cummings as gospel now that he's taken aim at the government, whereas a year ago wouldn't believe anything he said.

Most media political comment tends to endorse the writer's perspective; there is little or no objectivity in it.

But....I don't know anyone who thinks that everything O'Brien says is evidence and fact based - including on this thread. Maybe that in itself is a subjective judgement.

However, I respectfully suggest you listen to testimony of the caller on this clip and consider it carefully without being distracted by O'Brien....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAk-KrZgfM0&t=147s

 

[Hotchilidog]

Just like they're all willing to take every word of Dominic Cummings as gospel now that he's taken aim at the government, whereas a year ago wouldn't believe anything he said.

This line that those taking DC's testimony seriously are hypocrites for slagging him off in the past is nonsense.

Nothing that Cummings said was particularly new, it was mostly confirming what the government's critics already knew and simply added to the growing body evidence of the failings inside No10 and Whitehall. Dom has not suddenly become a paragon of virtue because of his select committee evidence, far from it, he remains a rat and a weasel.

 

[Stato]

‘Forelock tugging electorate.’ That really is a classic of the belittling anyone who has a different opinion genre.

And there's the whataboutism. If you can't argue, then ignore the main point and find something you can distract with. Call it what you want. If you don't like this vernacular, try 'palpably voting against their own material interests electorate'. Having grown up in a working class community in the South East and seen the class prejudice against middle classes and unearned trust of anyone with a title, a posh accent or a smattering of Latin, I call it what I see it to be. There was a time when the famous Frost Report sketch was a correct analysis of the UK class system. Today Corbett and Cleese's characters would have to be shown as entirely content looking up to and down on each other providing they could join together in kicking Barker's character for representing any possibility of there ever being some progressive change.