Disabled Parking

[libra-gully]

I cannot remember who told me this (blame the medication) so please don't quote me, but I understood that there are "roughly" 100 registered supporters as either wheelchair users or ambulant disabled. So even with disabled STHs attempting car pools where possible, it potentially leaves a great number left over.

My biggest concern in some respects, is that a great number of our colleagues have been told to sit tight, and we will contact you. With just 48 hours until deadline day, I fear that many who may not have access to this site are not aware of the current scenario, and the need to urgently put in a claim.

I make no apology for my secondary concern which relates to cost. A large number of disabled supporters had a big choice to make whether they could financially afford a ST with the level playing field of pricing now (removal of concession). When many are on limited incomes, to be asked to cough for another hundred plus pounds could/might prevent some from taking up their seats come Aug 6.

I know that sounded a bit dramatic, but sadly it is a reality, which once again the club has no concern for as it rushes to the new horizon.

 

[Shanker45]

I am really disappointed to see that the disabled parking issues have not been resolved by the club, it's just not good enough. Wasn't the new ground publicised initially as "Falmer For All" - more like "Falmer for those with the money".

That might sound a little harsh but up until now the club were IMO pretty good at looking after us their fans and in particular those less abled and in wheelchairs. Had some great experiences and help from the club over the years ( brother was a wheelchair season ticket holder).

However, some months ago now ( i think!) I wrote to Martin Perry who to be fair responded promptly and offered to meet etc.. to discuss the access, parking and poor seat/space position at the Amex. He promised elevated seating in good positions for all ( i.e not just those in 1901) in the East stand once new tier completed but more importantly for now, he promised to address and resolve the access and parking issues. This hasn't happened, to be honest I am only now picking it back up as unfortunately my brother is currently too ill to attend the Amex this season and potentially might never be able to.
The situation is not good enough, the club have been given more than enough time on this and it should be escalated for example as suggested already via the Argus.
I hope all of you that need parking close by get it, I really do.

 

[shellsuit]

this all turning into a bit of a fiasco,i have been trying to get the parking situation sorted for weeks now,finally after many phone calls and claims the forms were in the post they emailed them today and its true the closing date for applications is this friday....what a shambles.when we originally purchased our season ticket in the disabled section we were at no point told there would be a charge for a space on top but would at least get a space,now it seems this may not be the case....due to the lack of mobility in our case the only option without a parking space is to give the season ticket back.........or convert the wheelchair into a flying type contraction,it all leaves a bit of a sour taste in the mouth

 

[tinytears]

I think a lot of people are unaware of the facts of the issue but I am surprised the club have missed such an important matter. They leave themselves open to being sued and I HATE saying that about our club.

And for those who mentioned Blue Badges, just a reminder again that they are irrelevant, the Blue Badge scheme does not apply on private land and not everyone who would qualify legally to use a 'disabled bay' on private land would have a Blue Badge anyway. If you had just had a cancer or other longterm condition diagnosis you would be allowed to use a disabled bay provided by ANY retailer or service straight away, you would not have a Blue Badge to show of course but the law would allow it.

It is NOT just about being in a wheelchair, getting the higher rate Mobility Allowance nor whether or not there is a walking problem (not to detract from the needs of those who are in a wheelchair/get Mobility allowance/have a walking problem, of course!).

It's really simple, it's about the legal definition of disability:

Disability and the Equality Act 2010 : Directgov - Disabled people

...and the club MUST BY LAW make their reasonable adjustment of disabled bays accessible to ALL who qualify and who have the need for that adjustment (so for instance, whilst someone with a severe stammer does fit the definition and could take action against discrimination, they could not insist on using a disabled bay!).

The club have to allow qualifying people to use the bays, even if that's hard to identify, even though everyone's condition is different, even though there is no quick fix method of knowing who can use such bays. To deny access to the stadium's 'reasonable adjustments' for occasional visitors, including all disabled away fans, is unlawful.

The Club are in big trouble here and I hope they do something very quickly to sort it out. I think they may have to drop the £180 charge as well, how can that work with ad-hoc visitors when you must treat them the same?

I'm interested to know if BODS advised the Club about the legal definition of disability I have linked, so the club would have known it's NOT about having a carer or mobility allowance? Who on earth sent them off in that direction?

The club were aware of all legal requirements. The Level Playing field association ( formally National Assosiation of Disabled supporters) are still talking to the club. They are the proffesionals when it comes to the access to stadia guide & the law they tell the club where it fails. The problem is there are not enough spaces provided so in practical terms a system has to be put in place. There is no fair way to decide who gets a space.

 

[libra-gully]

Tiny tears you are absolutely correct, there are not enough bays. Why is it then the club is open to applications from normal season ticket holders as from tomorrow (Thurs) when our closing date isn't until Friday.

Basically the club is quite happy to carry on taking the cash, as it appears to just about meet its legal requirement for disabled allowed spaces. Disgraceful!

Why on earth can they at least not wait until say Monday, when, if this "Friday" shambles continues, they will at least know how many spaces are required by us lesser valued STHs? If there are then some left over, then by all means continue to fleece others for a parking space.

 

[Superphil]

Sorry Libra to keep asking the same question, but what is the legal requirment for spaces? That's the bit I can't fathom. Not recommended, not 'good practice' or guidance, but the actual specifc number in relation to the size of the development. If we knew that, we would have a target to aim at the club to resolve.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

OK today I went over the Amex to meet Paul Rogers,One because there was a misunderstanding on seat numbering in the 1901 club .Two because no money had been taken from my account and Three to question the disabled parking arrangements.Paul was very helpful and I got the following answers. But first my situation I'm disabled and have difficulties in walking due to heart valve deteriation and I have a carer.
My seat situation was sorted very quickly.Money does not come out of my account till August the 1st. Disabled parking. If you have two seats ie one for the carer then you have a disabled parking place, I presume they will all be together in Bennetts field.I can shed no light on people who have a disabled badge but no carer, but it seems that two seats is the criteria for having a parking place. thanks.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Right ... it's about time I said this. I sent an e-mail to Martin Perry in January, suggesting a solution to the problem of there not being enough disabled parking spaces within easy walking distance of the stadium. He didn't reply.

In February, after discussion with BODS, I prepared a more detailed proposal, which I sent to BODS and the National Association of Disabled Supporters, in time for a meeting that they were having with the Club. I've heard nothing back since then. I presume the Club weren't happy that there were some modest cost implications.

The proposal set out several options, one of which was an accessible minibus-based park & ride service for disabled supporters and any friends/family members who were travelling with them. The resources to provide such a service are still potentially available - although it is now unlikely that such a service could start immediately. A location for parking would have to be found, but I can think of several.

I don't think NSC is the right forum to negotiate the arrangements, or go into too much detail, but if someone at BODS or the Club would care to get back to me and explain why the proposal I submitted couldn't be pursued, I'd be interested in hearing from them.

 

[portlock seagull]

Still no letter received from club so only aware of Fridays deadline because read NSC!! I'd like to thank Bozza for doing more for disabled Brighton fans than any BHA employee in that respect.

Believe legally that the club may have case to answer so let's get on with things shall we? If we serve the club notice tomorrow then solicitor could kill 2 birds with 1 stone e.g. When slapping the writ down on the albions front desk, I could ask that he/she picks up some of these Friday forms we're all supposed to have! The only thing keeping me going currently is I supported this club long before perry and brown arrived. And likely will still be supporting then after they've gone. Ow and the fact I still believe it's bungling incompetence that's causing this rather than intent. Although lord b's reply above is now stretching that benefit of the doubt to it's max. Poor show Albion, how much is a ST at Crawley did you say?!

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Sorry Libra to keep asking the same question, but what is the legal requirment for spaces? That's the bit I can't fathom. Not recommended, not 'good practice' or guidance, but the actual specifc number in relation to the size of the development. If we knew that, we would have a target to aim at the club to resolve.

Whilst there is a recommended level of provision for disabled parking (which the Club isn't meeting), there isn't a legal requirement for a specific number of disabled parking spaces. There is, however, a legal requirement for the Club to ensure, in providing any parking spaces, that reasonable access for disabled spectators is included in the provision. It is difficult to see how a parking scheme that prioritises hospitality parking, and by doing so, makes it more difficult for disabled spectators to attend matches, meets this requirement.

 

[Jimbo.GRFC]

TWO WEEKS AGO, Bozza and I collated about 65 questions that NSC users had come up with in relation to a variety of transport issues. Ten of these were specific questions about parking for disabled people. The questions have been sent to the Club for an answer. The response so far ... nothing.



* ~ * Post your Amex travel questions here * ~ * - see Post #102 for some answers

PARKING FOR DISABLED PEOPLE

Bearing in mind that there are only 46 disabled parking spaces that are available to buy (on a seasonal basis only, at a price of £130 a season), what criteria will be used to decide which disabled people will be permitted to buy these places? And who will decide?

Is it fair to charge for a disabled parking space?

Did the Club advise BODS that disabled parking spaces would be made available free of charge?

If a Blue Badge holder (or other disabled supporter) is unsuccessful in applying for one of the available disabled parking spaces, what alternatives will be offered?

If none of the alternatives is suitable, will the Club offer a refund on the season ticket and PSL that has been purchased?

Are there any plans to help disabled people get from the Sussex University car park to the stadium, if they find that they are unable to get a designated disabled parking space, but do succeed in getting a space elsewhere on the University campus?

If a wheelchair is necessary to assist a disabled supporter to get from Sussex University to the stadium, does the Club propose to make wheelchairs (and pushers) available for this purpose?

Where at the stadium can wheelchairs be parked?

Will it be possible for disabled supporters who do not have an allocated parking space to be dropped off and picked up close to the stadium entrance?

What arrangements are being made for disabled parking spaces to be made available to away fans? How many spaces will be available? And where will they be located?

The answer to this one is crystal clear. It would appear that we have in Brighton and Hove the largest contingent of disabled drivers in the country, all who own cars like Aston Martins, Mercs, BMW's, Range Rovers etc. Yet watch them spring out of their cars, its lucky if they were even suffering a cold. They're spivs by and large and are sitting ducks for a tug if they continue. Now its down to the authorities and the club to weed them out. ACT NOW

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

If you have two seats ie one for the carer then you have a disabled parking place, I presume they will all be together in Bennetts field.

Part of the issue is inconsistency. I spoke to Paul a week or so ago and he told me something different. Ggggggrrrr. This whole situation is a nightmare. I have been given so much conflicting and differing info I truly do not know whom or what to believe anymore.

I also had to drive to the stadium yesterday as a chap called Ian told me he could not email me an electronic copy of the application form. I did press him....told me repeatedly they did not have one. Again, this is inconsistent as others have been emailed the forms.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

I refer to my earlier posts re disabled parking. Facts. There is limited ground available to which to fit in team coaches, visting directors,players,disabled supporters..if you have a seat for carer /wheelchair space then you will get a parking place in Bennetts Field. There are a lot of people with disabled badges who might look ok,but beware,you do not know what problems lie within them,the first rule on a disability badge is... Can you walk 50 metres with NO discomfort.IE Stopping through lack of breath,pain.If you have a mobility car (you can tell by the tax disc) where it has duty paid it has "Disabled" then there must be some problem with owner,believe me they are very strict with this. But there again not every disabled person has a mobility car,preferring to take the allowance instead.

 

[jonesie]

I tried to buy a disabled space two weeks ago. I was told I could not as all applicants would be assessed prior to allocation, which I can understand. However, what would be the scenario if, after assessment, spaces were not available? Not exactly a great outcome. Now I may be worrying unnecessarily but, who knows if there will be sufficient spaces left once the club has got its act together and allocated.

 

[LadySeagull]

To those posters who have gone off on that tangent again, Blue Badges are irrelevant. Please read the thread, I have posted to clarify this misunderstanding above. I am not disabled myself but had/have disabled relatives and also used to work in a job which required knowledge of the reasonable adjustment part of the DDA (as it was then).

 

[Hoops Seagull]

I am amazed that we are at this stage and disabled parking has not been sorted. As I understand it Martin Perry, Ken Brown and Sally Townsend have had meetings with BODS, this is why BODS members completed questionairres months ago. This information was available way back but the club sent out similar questionaires in June 2011. These questionairres were sent to all known disabled/blue badge STH's on the information held by the club. So why was this not thought through before? Why has it been left so late to find answers? Why is Paul Rodgers involved and from previous posts seems to be saying different things? Why if Sally Townsend is the Disability Liaision Officer is she not dealing with? Perhaps the club are appointing people into positions that they are not capable of dealing with!

I attended the game last Saturday and was on the phone for half an hour trying to find out about disabled parking. I was to go up Village Way and I would be directed to where I could park. This I did and it was easy to use the lift down to the concourse level. I don't know what the name of this area is but I am not sure where Bennetts Field is or if its level or how you access the stadium concourse. Answers would be good. At the moment each day brings new questions - which we seem unable to resolve.

I think all of us who have supported the club, wnet to Gillingham, suffered Withdean and fought for this stadium - all of this appears to count for nothing now as in the rest of life the only thing that does count is MONEY not LOYALTY.

I would like to thank Lord B and BODS for their efforts and only wish this matter could attract the same desire from the club.

 

[paul1960]

Absolute disgrace all round.

Stadium - Premiership class
Treatment of Disabled People - Non League

As you say money counts these days !

How about a club press release on disabled parking we seem to get them on everything else.

My experience last Saturday with my father and daughter was an utter disgrace and one steward even expected my daughter to walk up stairs when she was in a wheelchair to go to the toilet!Would not let her go to the toilet in the north stand lower concourse when she was in the west stand lower expected her to walk up steps !

Shambolic !

As for the parking even worse spoke to 3 different people and youv'e guessed it got 3 different responses,

So advice also welcome my father has cancer can't walk very far , all I know is I have had so much different advice from the club , would they let me drop him off no.

We may be a Champiuonship club but in other areas we are so poor its worrying !

 

[portlock seagull]

I am amazed that we are at this stage and disabled parking has not been sorted. As I understand it Martin Perry, Ken Brown and Sally Townsend have had meetings with BODS, this is why BODS members completed questionairres months ago. This information was available way back but the club sent out similar questionaires in June 2011. These questionairres were sent to all known disabled/blue badge STH's on the information held by the club. So why was this not thought through before? Why has it been left so late to find answers? Why is Paul Rodgers involved and from previous posts seems to be saying different things? Why if Sally Townsend is the Disability Liaision Officer is she not dealing with? Perhaps the club are appointing people into positions that they are not capable of dealing with!

I attended the game last Saturday and was on the phone for half an hour trying to find out about disabled parking. I was to go up Village Way and I would be directed to where I could park. This I did and it was easy to use the lift down to the concourse level. I don't know what the name of this area is but I am not sure where Bennetts Field is or if its level or how you access the stadium concourse. Answers would be good. At the moment each day brings new questions - which we seem unable to resolve.

I think all of us who have supported the club, wnet to Gillingham, suffered Withdean and fought for this stadium - all of this appears to count for nothing now as in the rest of life the only thing that does count is MONEY not LOYALTY.

I would like to thank Lord B and BODS for their efforts and only wish this matter could attract the same desire from the club.

well said. On the subject of people appointed to positions of incompetence, without wishing to detract from Paul rogers playing achievements, how does someone go from footballer to commercial manager in just a few years? I think the club has a lot of employees (jobs for the boys?) that are potentially less suited than say, someone who has been in business or marketing workig their way up for all the years players like Paul were playing. We seem to be very professional on the pitch and very amateur off it. There are lots of signs they're not coping and this is perhaps the most apparent currently.

But as we've all found out, the club just ain't interested in engaging - least at senior level.

 

[Superphil]

It is difficult to see how a parking scheme that prioritises hospitality parking, and by doing so, makes it more difficult for disabled spectators to attend matches, meets this requirement.

And the sad thing is, the FA believe that it is not a reasonable adjustment to replace hospitality parking with blue badge parking. It is a load of shite, but sadly, it seems the ineffectiveness of the law is at fault here, the club seem to be using it to its advantage. As has been said on here before, it would appear that it stinks.

 

[The Large One]

well said. On the subject of people appointed to positions of incompetence, without wishing to detract from Paul rogers playing achievements, how does someone go from footballer to commercial manager in just a few years? I think the club has a lot of employees (jobs for the boys?) that are potentially less suited than say, someone who has been in business or marketing workig their way up for all the years players like Paul were playing. We seem to be very professional on the pitch and very amateur off it. There are lots of signs they're not coping and this is perhaps the most apparent currently.

But as we've all found out, the club just ain't interested in engaging - least at senior level.

To be fair, Paul Rogers did have a career in the City before/while he was a footballer.