Did you know that you can't be offside from a GK?

[mcshane in the 79th]

Anyone remember Czech Rep team not knowing the basic rules of a shootout in the semi of Euro '96?

No? Please remind me!

 

[Dirty Dave]

If you pass the ball when taking a penalty-kick to a player in an offside position - then he is offside.

Mind you a pretty stupid way of taking a penalty!

I remeber that Arsenal penalty a few years back when they passed the ball, Henry I think it was

 

[BensGrandad]

This "can't be offside from a goal kick" law then, is it something thats been introduced in the last few years, or has it always been the case ?

It was in when I passed my Class III refs course in 1959. I dont knpow whether it has been changed either way since then. I cannot remember but somebody said you cant be offside from a corner the reason being that to keep the ball in play it has to be played back from the line or it would go over for a goalkick.

 

[Acker79]

It was in when I passed my Class III refs course in 1959. I dont knpow whether it has been changed either way since then. I cannot remember but somebody said you cant be offside from a corner the reason being that to keep the ball in play it has to be played back from the line or it would go over for a goalkick.

Actually that's no longer the case. The direction the ball is played isn't important any more, it's about where the player is in relation to the ball when it is played. So if you're in an offside position (which includes being ahead of the ball) and the ball is played backward and takes a deflection forward, or if you flicked it up and played it backward, but the spin of the ball made it bounce forward, it would be offside. I know the chances of this is rare, but it's a technicality, and it would have meant you can be offside if the ball is kicked from the top of the quadrant and your team mate is on the goal line without the current exemption.

The reason you can't be offside from a corner, goal kick and throw in these days is because the ball has left the field of play, and so there is no comparison point - you can't be ahead of the ball, because the ball isn't on the pitch.


With free kicks etc. the play has stopped but the ball was on the pitch when it stopped and has a set place to be started from, so offsides still apply.




Incidentally, if a defender steps off the pitch in an effort to catch someone offside (i.e. if painter was a quarter of the way up the pitch, our opponents break and one of their forwards is stood on the edge of the centre circle in our half and painter steps off the side of the pitch in an attempt to make the attacker the last man) it actually equates to him standing on the by-line, meaning he plays him onside. (if a player leaves the pitch for treatment/change of shirts etc, with ref's permission, that player is off the pitch and not part of the game)

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I only learnt this last season when someone in E block shouted "offside" and someone in F said you couldn't be offside.

The next 10 minutes involved quiet mummurs around both blocks as people became slowly aware of the revelation.

Middle aged men were in utter shock

That someone in F block could have been me. After explaining it for about the sixth time to those around I gave up.:US:

 

[nwgull]

No? Please remind me!

Penalty shoot against France out was all square after 5 each so it went to sudden death, the next French penalty taker missed but Czechs thought that you just went through your orignal 5 takers again and sent their first bloke back up to take another pen. Fortunately the ref recognised him and sent him back, resulting in some frantic decision making over who was going to take the penalty that would take them to the final.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

There was an interesting incident in one of the World Cup games (I can't remember which) when two players, who were both off the pitch at the time, were racing each other to get to the ball (which was on the pitch). One of the players tripped the other one (off the field of play).

The referee awarded a freekick - but, obviously, not from where the offence occurred.

I think the reason both players were off the pitch was that, when they were racing each other, the linesman got in the way and they both skirted round him, by stepping off the field of play.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

The reason you can't be offside from a corner, goal kick and throw in these days is because the ball has left the field of play, and so there is no comparison point - you can't be ahead of the ball, because the ball isn't on the pitch.

But isn't the ball back on the field of play when the corner kick or goal kick is taken, and then in play when ball has been kicked (corner kick) and kicked out of the penalty area (goal kick)? You can be ahead of the ball because it is on the pitch.

Is it to with the ball not being in play until it has been kicked?

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

Just a point of order, there are no rules in Association Football by the way, they are called "The Laws of the Game".

 

[BensGrandad]

Actually that's no longer the case. The direction the ball is played isn't important any more, it's about where the player is in relation to the ball when it is played. So if you're in an offside position (which includes being ahead of the ball) and the ball is played backward and takes a deflection forward, or if you flicked it up and played it backward, but the spin of the ball made it bounce forward, it would be offside. I know the chances of this is rare, but it's a technicality, and it would have meant you can be offside if the ball is kicked from the top of the quadrant and your team mate is on the goal line without the current exemption.

The reason you can't be offside from a corner, goal kick and throw in these days is because the ball has left the field of play, and so there is no comparison point - you can't be ahead of the ball, because the ball isn't on the pitch.
With free kicks etc. the play has stopped but the ball was on the pitch when it stopped and has a set place to be started from, so offsides still apply.




Incidentally, if a defender steps off the pitch in an effort to catch someone offside (i.e. if painter was a quarter of the way up the pitch, our opponents break and one of their forwards is stood on the edge of the centre circle in our half and painter steps off the side of the pitch in an attempt to make the attacker the last man) it actually equates to him standing on the by-line, meaning he plays him onside. (if a player leaves the pitch for treatment/change of shirts etc, with ref's permission, that player is off the pitch and not part of the game)

Can you find me the Law which relates to your view that you can be offside even if the ball is played backwards.

Also on the point that I have highlighted if the ball went out of play as you suggest it would be a goal kick irrespective of how or where it went or finished up. I think that you may be 'waffling' abit here

 

[drew]

Actually that's no longer the case. The direction the ball is played isn't important any more, it's about where the player is in relation to the ball when it is played. So if you're in an offside position (which includes being ahead of the ballsurely you can only be offside if you are ahead of the ball?) and the ball is played backward and takes a deflection forward, or if you flicked it up and played it backward, but the spin of the ball made it bounce forward, it would be offside. I know the chances of this is rare, but it's a technicality, and it would have meant you can be offside if the ball is kicked from the top of the quadrant and your team mate is on the goal line without the current exemption.

The reason you can't be offside from a corner, goal kick and throw in these days is because the ball has left the field of play, and so there is no comparison point - you can't be ahead of the ball, because the ball isn't on the pitch. Are you sure? The ball is in the field of play as it has to be on one of the lines but is classified as a dead ball until it is kicked by an attacking player (ie the corner taker)


With free kicks etc. the play has stopped but the ball was on the pitch when it stopped and has a set place to be started from, so offsides still apply.




Incidentally, if a defender steps off the pitch in an effort to catch someone offside (i.e. if painter was a quarter of the way up the pitch, our opponents break and one of their forwards is stood on the edge of the centre circle in our half and painter steps off the side of the pitch in an attempt to make the attacker the last man) it actually equates to him standing on the by-line, meaning he plays him onside. (if a player leaves the pitch for treatment/change of shirts etc, with ref's permission, that player is off the pitch and not part of the game)

The difference is in relation to the goal line. If a defender steps of the pitch there to gain an advantage, ie ,make a player offiside, he can be booked, I beleive for something like ungentlemanly conduct

Can you find me the Law which relates to your view that you can be offside even if the ball is played backwards.

Also on the point that I have highlighted if the ball went out of play as you suggest it would be a goal kick irrespective of how or where it went or finished up. I think that you may be 'waffling' abit here

exactly.

 

[Acker79]

Also on the point that I have highlighted if the ball went out of play as you suggest it would be a goal kick irrespective of how or where it went or finished up. I think that you may be 'waffling' abit here

I'm sorry that sentence doesn't make any sense to me, especially when read in conjunction to the highlighted bit of my post.

Can you find me the Law which relates to your view that you can be offside even if the ball is played backwards.

Law eleven (link earlier in the thread):

Offside position
It is not an offence in itself to be in an offside position.
A player is in an offside position if:
• he is nearer to his opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the
second-last opponent
A player is not in an offside position if:
• he is in his own half of the fi eld of play or
• he is level with the second-last opponent or
• he is level with the last two opponents
Offence
A player in an offside position is only penalised if, at the moment the ball touches or is played by one of his team, he is, in the opinion of the referee, involved in active play by:
• interfering with play or
• interfering with an opponent or
• gaining an advantage by being in that position
No offence
There is no offside offence if a player receives the ball directly from:
• a goal kick
• a throw-in
• a corner kick
Infringements and sanctions
In the event of an offside offence, the referee awards an indirect free kick
to the opposing team to be taken from the place where the infringement
occurred (see Law 13 – Position of free kick).

"A player in an offside position is only penalised if, at the moment the ball touches or is played by one of his team" the direction the ball is played is not relevant enough to be specified in the laws of the game.

But isn't the ball back on the field of play when the corner kick or goal kick is taken, and then in play when ball has been kicked (corner kick) and kicked out of the penalty area (goal kick)? You can be ahead of the ball because it is on the pitch.

Is it to with the ball not being in play until it has been kicked?

Are you sure? The ball is in the field of play as it has to be on one of the lines but is classified as a dead ball until it is kicked by an attacking player (ie the corner taker)

It is my interpretation, I may be wrong and I should have mnade it clearer that I was giving my understanding I apologise for that, but because the offside law as it stands means you can, as I explained in my last post, be offside from a corner, it's the only explanation for all three exceptions that makes sense to me. Play doesn't restart until the kick has been taken, at the moment the ball is kicked it is still off the pitch, it has left the field of play and doesn't re-enter until it has been kicked/thrown. As you can't be ahead of the ball since it's "off the pitch" when it is kicked, you can't be offside.

So if you're in an offside position (which includes being ahead of the ball surely you can only be offside if you are ahead of the ball?)

Yes, that's what I meant when I said "which includes being ahead of the ball".

The difference is in relation to the goal line. If a defender steps of the pitch there to gain an advantage, ie ,make a player offiside, he can be booked, I beleive for something like ungentlemanly conduct

this is the advice to refs:

Any defending player leaving the fi eld of play for any reason without the referee’s permission shall be considered to be on his own goal line or touch line for the purposes of offside until the next stoppage in play. If the player leaves the fi eld of play deliberately, he must be cautioned when the ball is next out of play.

It is not an offence in itself for a player who is in an offside position to step
off the field of play to show the referee that he is not involved in active play. However, if the referee considers that he has left the fi eld of play for tactical reasons and has gained an unfair advantage by re-entering the field of play, the player must be cautioned for unsporting behaviour. The player needs to ask for the referee’s permission to re-enter the field of play.

If an attacking player remains stationary between the goalposts and inside the goal net as the ball enters the goal, a goal must be awarded. However, if the attacking player distracts an opponent, the goal must be disallowed, the player cautioned for unsporting behaviour and play restarted with a dropped ball from the position of the ball when play was stopped, unless play was stopped inside the goal area, in which case the referee drops the ball on the goal area line parallel to the goal line at the point nearest to where the ball was located when play was stopped.