David has only gone and done it!

[Kalimantan Gull]

Is that really what's happened? Those who arrive and don't work aren't being targeted at all?

Who are you talking about? non-EU? I'm generalising to make a wider point, but considering that non-EU immigration is higher than net-EU immigration, one would assume that efforts to control non-EU migration are weak.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I have to say I don't understand where this in-work benefits thing has come from. People are moaning about immigration yet the solution is not to close doors but instead to treat people like second-class people. We've got huge numbers of non-EU migrants arriving with little effort to stop them, they eventually get their citizenship and huge amounts of out-of-work benefits, whereas hard-working people from Europe who are needed to fill job vacancies, are penalised. It feels like we're lashing out at the wrong people just to sate some base desire to be anti-immigrant.

My cousin's partner applied to work for the NHS from Poland, in response to a shortage of nurses. She works a lot of ugly shift times, Christmas Day, bank holidays, a lot of nights, because thats where the main shortages are. She pays her income tax, VAT, council tax, petrol duty and so on, and yet now she's being denied the working tax credits that all the UK-citizens doing the same job as her are getting.

I expect she'll be spared in the first wave of cuts as someone who has been here a long time, but its clear that the British public as a whole doesn't want her here, doesn't appreciate what she's doing, and I'm pretty disgusted both at that point of view and our government's craven desire to throw hard-working people under the bus to score political points.

This whole tax-credits thing is a right mess. I don't agree with it in principle but it's clearly needed to bolster low wages. A more sensible approach, which will also resolve the situation of your relative, is to jack up the minimum wage.

 

[Triggaaar]

Who are you talking about? non-EU?

I'm talking about EU citizens, since that's what the EU influences. You spoke of us penalising those from Europe who work hard being the wrong people, and I thought you meant we weren't therefore penalising those from Europe who don't work. I thought one of the ideas was that people arriving here and not working would only get the same benefits that they get back home.

I do agree with you, that if someone comes in to fill a work shortage, they should be treated like the rest of us, but I also think it's wrong to allow people to come here with the sole reason of claiming benefits.

 

[Half Time Pies]

Not a big fan of cameron have to admit that undertaking this negotiation has been a master stroke for him and the in campaign. Bearing in mind that people are generally risk adverse when it comes to referendums then there is absolutely zero chance of a Brexit now.

 

[melias shoes]

But until this moment you'll just carry on bleating?

You'll carry on claiming this is the greatest bit of diplomacy since Chamberlain came back waving a piece of paper?

 

[Javeaseagull]

Did he get off the plane waving a piece of paper and saying "Peace in our time"?

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Top work from Dave. The Victor Meldrews will be crying in their soup on June 24th...

Yes ,he must be pleased for HIM SELF , I'm sure there's a few who aren't
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Not a big fan of cameron have to admit that undertaking this negotiation has been a master stroke for him and the in campaign. Bearing in mind that people are generally risk adverse when it comes to referendums then there is absolutely zero chance of a Brexit now.

=more people entering the country and less controll of our soverignty , the basic rights any country should have
regards
DR

 

[vegster]

We can relax, great negotiation, all will be good

I'm sure that there will be plenty of directorship's from The City rolling in for him when he " retires" in 3 years time after this deal.....Prime Ministers pension ,private healthcare and maybe 5 days work a month for a few thousand grand a year.....life's good .

 

[Da Man Clay]

Not a big fan of cameron have to admit that undertaking this negotiation has been a master stroke for him and the in campaign. Bearing in mind that people are generally risk adverse when it comes to referendums then there is absolutely zero chance of a Brexit now.

Wouldn't be so sure. The limited details for this deal actually pushes me more out than in (and I am still undecided). There doesn't seem to be enough here to remain.

 

[severnside gull]

Ooh! Peace in our time!
Was he waving a bit of paper to prove that it's true?

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

I'm talking about EU citizens, since that's what the EU influences. You spoke of us penalising those from Europe who work hard being the wrong people, and I thought you meant we weren't therefore penalising those from Europe who don't work. I thought one of the ideas was that people arriving here and not working would only get the same benefits that they get back home.

I do agree with you, that if someone comes in to fill a work shortage, they should be treated like the rest of us, but I also think it's wrong to allow people to come here with the sole reason of claiming benefits.

I'm talking about in-work benefits, because stopping these is what Cameron has got as his headline deal from these talks. I haven't seen in this deal where there is talk about out-of-work benefits for EU citizens in the UK, and in any case I don't believe its true that someone can come over the channel from France and immediately claim out-of-work benefits from the British government. This new deal is largely about denying benefits to working taxpayers in the UK.

and overall I was comparing non-EU to EU. The former come here and gain citizenship (or residency with similar benefits), work or no work. The latter come here as workers, do not get citizenship, and, on the most part, leave when there is no work for them.

 

[gregbrighton]

At least Dave got the UK 'Special Needs' status...

 

[Seagull58]

New immigrants will get in-work benefits index linked to living costs in their country of origin. Existing immigrants will get them index linked from 2020. If you come here and don't get a job in 6 months you will have to leave

 

[Norman Baker suck my lozenge]

It's an agreement at the moment not a deal,politicians are very good at braking agreements ,these ***** couldn't lie straight in bed.

 

[Half Time Pies]

=more people entering the country and less controll of our soverignty , the basic rights any country should have
regards
DR

I am not arguing the rights or wrongs of it, in fact I am undecided. However if I had some spare cash I would be lumping on the 1/3 odds on offer for Britain to stay in. This is based purely on the fact that 1) most people make decisions based on limited knowledge i.e. they will take the deal at face value rather than looking at the detail of it, 2) most people are risk adverse and if given 2 choices will always make the safest one, 3) referendums generally always go they way that the government in charge wants them to as they make damn sure they have sewn them up before the vote takes place.

 

[Eeyore]

I have to say I don't understand where this in-work benefits thing has come from. People are moaning about immigration yet the solution is not to close doors but instead to treat people like second-class people. We've got huge numbers of non-EU migrants arriving with little effort to stop them, they eventually get their citizenship and huge amounts of out-of-work benefits, whereas hard-working people from Europe who are needed to fill job vacancies, are penalised. It feels like we're lashing out at the wrong people just to sate some base desire to be anti-immigrant.

My cousin's partner applied to work for the NHS from Poland, in response to a shortage of nurses. She works a lot of ugly shift times, Christmas Day, bank holidays, a lot of nights, because thats where the main shortages are. She pays her income tax, VAT, council tax, petrol duty and so on, and yet now she's being denied the working tax credits that all the UK-citizens doing the same job as her are getting.

I expect she'll be spared in the first wave of cuts as someone who has been here a long time, but its clear that the British public as a whole doesn't want her here, doesn't appreciate what she's doing, and I'm pretty disgusted both at that point of view and our government's craven desire to throw hard-working people under the bus to score political points.

I'll just comment on this post in the hope it gets a few more reads. Well said. Agree with all of it.

 

[goldstone]

... whereas hard-working people from Europe who are needed to fill job vacancies, are penalised.

I wish someone would explain to me why we need immigrants to fill job vacancies. In the past we were able to find British people to fill job vacancies in this country.

 

[Eeyore]

Ooh! Peace in our time!
Was he waving a bit of paper to prove that it's true?

No, it's war. He'll be waving a copy of the Daily Express.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The changes won't be made until after the referendum.

Let's be exact here - the changes won't be ratified by all the other 27 members until after the referendum. What happens if 1 or 2 don't ratify them ? Ah yes, back to where we are today but the UK has been tied to the EU with no changes.