David has only gone and done it!

[Deleted member 22389]

No, it comes into effect once the uk has a referendum, if the result is 'stay in'.

Where did the 2020 come from? So bloody confusing.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

And in other good news Micheal Gove will surely be booted out of the cabinet after the referendum.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Well yes, he fooled a lot of people leading up to the general election too, I guess.

what are some of you on?
let me know

EDIT
his own party will rip him apart
Gove is already waiting round the corner with his sharpened knife

bye dave

Looks like the usual Tory fan boys are back spinning this as if it's an achievement...

The bile and bitterness spring forth even before the ink has dried! Gonna be painful for those Tory hating folks who want out of Europe, as DC will clock up another victory at the polls. Get set for a few months of the OUT campaigners claiming a premature victory as the opinion polls move inexorably their way, and then months if not years of bitterness as the country votes for the status quo leaving the anti-EU peeps facing another 50 years of partnership.

But there will be certain losers who will claim the poll was rigged, the question put to the electorate was loaded, anything other than accept that they were either plain wrong or fairly and squarely in the minority. Bit like the last General Election really.

 

[melias shoes]

Looks like the usual Tory fan boys are back spinning this as if it's an achievement...

I voted Tory and I am firmly OUT. This isn't left or right for me it's about Britain leaving the eu.

 

[melias shoes]

The bile and bitterness spring forth even before the ink has dried! Gonna be painful for those Tory hating folks who want out of Europe, as DC will clock up another victory at the polls. Get set for a few months of the OUT campaigners claiming a premature victory as the opinion polls move inexorably their way, and then months if not years of bitterness as the country votes for the status quo leaving the anti-EU peeps facing another 50 years of partnership.

But there will be certain losers who will claim the poll was rigged, the question put to the electorate was loaded, anything other than accept that they were either plain wrong or fairly and squarely in the minority. Bit like the last General Election really.

For what it's worth I think we'll stay in unfortunately. You won't hear me bleating if we do. I'll just have to except it.

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

I heard Cam saying that the deal meant an end to open borders. From what I can see no restrictions on immigration to the UK are in the deal though?

Watcha talkin bout Dave?

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

Has anything actually been formally ratified / adopted? Or have they just had a chat and decided that some stuff will be changed in the future subject to formal adoption? If the latter, it seems a bit of a stretch for Dave to come back and say it's all sorted. Nothing has actually changed yet has it? It might all fall apart before its adopted.

 

[melias shoes]

I heard on the radio, that this deal has to be passed by all the other countries and won't be done until after the referendum, which means it can be changed. So people might vote to Remain and then what Cameron asked for gets changed. Secondly I don't think it comes in to effect until 2020 either, not it's not worthless but it's not set in stone either and it still doesn't address the real issue of open borders.

So Not worth the paper it's written on.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

I have to say I don't understand where this in-work benefits thing has come from. People are moaning about immigration yet the solution is not to close doors but instead to treat people like second-class people. We've got huge numbers of non-EU migrants arriving with little effort to stop them, they eventually get their citizenship and huge amounts of out-of-work benefits, whereas hard-working people from Europe who are needed to fill job vacancies, are penalised. It feels like we're lashing out at the wrong people just to sate some base desire to be anti-immigrant.

My cousin's partner applied to work for the NHS from Poland, in response to a shortage of nurses. She works a lot of ugly shift times, Christmas Day, bank holidays, a lot of nights, because thats where the main shortages are. She pays her income tax, VAT, council tax, petrol duty and so on, and yet now she's being denied the working tax credits that all the UK-citizens doing the same job as her are getting.

I expect she'll be spared in the first wave of cuts as someone who has been here a long time, but its clear that the British public as a whole doesn't want her here, doesn't appreciate what she's doing, and I'm pretty disgusted both at that point of view and our government's craven desire to throw hard-working people under the bus to score political points.

 

[Triggaaar]

Quite. I've just been catching up on the news. He has reached an agreement unanimously with Europe, and the best his opposition can come up with, is the agreement is weak.

But it the agreement is weak, then it's quite a fundamental problem. If he's agreed for the UK to be Europe's bitch, that's hardly good news is it.

In all the posts I read here, I see very little mention of what has actually been agreed. Sure DC says it's a great deal, but he was hardly going to say he failed was he. Same goes for Tusk.

So, exactly what has been agreed (as far as is currently known) and why is it good for the UK?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

So Not worth the paper it's written on.

Unless what bashisdir has written is wrong.

Which it is.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Has anything actually been formally ratified / adopted? Or have they just had a chat and decided that some stuff will be changed in the future subject to formal adoption? If the latter, it seems a bit of a stretch for Dave to come back and say it's all sorted. Nothing has actually changed yet has it? It might all fall apart before its adopted.

As I understand it, I still think it needs to be passed by all the other countries, the benefits block only lasts x amount of years, so basically we will back to square one anyway. It still does nothing to address the issue of open borders, which is right at the top of people concerns. Vote to Remain is just a vote for open borders for many many years to come.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Has anything actually been formally ratified / adopted? Or have they just had a chat and decided that some stuff will be changed in the future subject to formal adoption? If the latter, it seems a bit of a stretch for Dave to come back and say it's all sorted. Nothing has actually changed yet has it? It might all fall apart before its adopted.

The changes won't be made until after the referendum.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Unless what bashisdir has written is wrong.

Which it is.

If it's wrong please tell me exactly how this change works in regards of child benefits?

 

[Triggaaar]

I heard on the radio, that this deal has to be passed by all the other countries and won't be done until after the referendum, which means it can be changed. So people might vote to Remain and then what Cameron asked for gets changed.

Yes, they made that clear on the news last night too. I think DC should promise another referendum in the event that the EU reneges on the deal. If he does that, I'd think there's very little chance the EU will change anything significant.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

So Not worth the paper it's written on.

The changes won't be implemented until after the UK referendum ie the changes will only be made if the UK remains. There's no point making treaty updates to give the UK special treatment if it's not a member.

 

[mothy]

The deal Dave has done is akin to getting Leon best on a 7 year deal

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

For what it's worth I think we'll stay in unfortunately. You won't hear me bleating if we do. I'll just have to except it.

But until this moment you'll just carry on bleating?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

If it's wrong please tell me exactly how this change works in regards of child benefits?

I was responding to your suggestion that this agreement means nothing and could be put aside after the referendum. That just isn't true.

What does Child Benefits have do do with that?

 

[Triggaaar]

I have to say I don't understand where this in-work benefits thing has come from. People are moaning about immigration yet the solution is not to close doors but instead to treat people like second-class people. We've got huge numbers of non-EU migrants arriving with little effort to stop them, they eventually get their citizenship and huge amounts of out-of-work benefits, whereas hard-working people from Europe who are needed to fill job vacancies, are penalised. It feels like we're lashing out at the wrong people just to sate some base desire to be anti-immigrant.

My cousin's partner applied to work for the NHS from Poland, in response to a shortage of nurses. She works a lot of ugly shift times, Christmas Day, bank holidays, a lot of nights, because thats where the main shortages are. She pays her income tax, VAT, council tax, petrol duty and so on, and yet now she's being denied the working tax credits that all the UK-citizens doing the same job as her are getting.

Is that really what's happened? Those who arrive and don't work aren't being targeted at all?