cycle of violence

[Betfair Bozo]

Nothing to do with self fulfilling prophecies or fans on a chatboard (ffs!) ratcheting it up. This was Brighton v Palace with Palace having more than just a few hundred tickets for their "normals," as has been the case throughout the Withdean years, at a stadium with no proper segregation post match and inadequate transport. I don't like aftertimers but anyone who thought there'd be no trouble at all was deluded in the extreme. Cardiff and Millwall are likely to be similar unless the club and the police have a major rethink. As has been said, it's one thing when the mobs get together away from the innocents but another altogether when those that show up for the game and nothing else are being attacked and having masonry chucked at them. As important as anything else is that if the club and police do not up their game security wise it surely has to have a negative impact on the plans to expand. The easy policing brought about by having a few hundred in the away end at Withdean is finished. I am not for a second suggesting that the police should expect trouble and act accordingly but they have to anticipate the possibility and take segregative measures to protect the public.

 

[Hamilton]

I think you are right Rev.

The only people that are able to change the situation are the fans themselves. You can supply all the comfy seats and guest beer you like, but unless the attitude of the fans change then nothing will happen.

I want to retain the banter and rivalry, but I also want us all to be able to travel to and from a game safely.

Until the right minded supporters from both sides are seen openly drinking with one another before the game and in the public houses then that's never going to happen. Forget 'keeping them in for 30 minutes' and all that. How much are we prepared to change? It's not the police's job to change attitudes and we should start to ask how we can make their job easier by changing attitudes - and on both sides. REMF has done much to work on this, and perhaps some of their events should be planned to occur around our meetings assuming they will happen more often.

I went on hols to Austria this year and took my young son to see Red Bull Salzburg vs Rapid Vienna. Footie was not great, but the atmosphere was fantastic. The bars in the ground opened up onto the pitch and you could take an ale to your seat. And get this. No segregation. Red Bull fans with Rapid fans. And they didn't hold back in slagging each other's teams off. But all the ire was directed at the pitch. There were two Rapid and Salzburg only areas where the fans could taunt each other, but in my stand we all mixed. What was telling was a net between the supporters and the pitch so that fans couldn't chuck things at players. Not at each other, at the players. Now I know that on the continent there is all sorts of problems, and this is an exception rather than the rule, but the point is, it was allowed to happen because of the attitude of the people in the seats, not because of the policing or the transport policy or the refreshments served up.

If there's a Palace/Brighton pub for the return leg at Selhurst then I'd like to know as I'd love to see the right minded element make a stand and show that we can be rivals on the pitch and in the stadium and friends outside. And yes, I would still be sick to the pit of my stomach if we lost to them again.

 

[Betfair Bozo]

And for all the comments about him on here, Sid is on the mark and Uncle S isn't (imo.) Damage to the seating won't cause us any issues long term, kids and grandads getting hurt will.

 

[Tory Boy]

This was policed by coppers that had no experience of football trouble.

Any of those that remember the 70s and 80s knew full well what was going to happen, and we had hoped the police may have had a idea.

Sadly both the police and the club didn't have a f***ing clue.

TB

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

And for all the comments about him on here, Sid is on the mark and Uncle S isn't (imo.) Damage to the seating won't cause us any issues long term, kids and grandads getting hurt will.

I did not say that beating up kids and grandads would was right did I. I stated that the smashing up of the stadium was plain wrong and am being criticised for saying that. Most odd.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I can only see the palace v brighton games having increased levels of violence from now on,the policing was crazy! escorting palace fans into the centre of brighton,the letting palace roam at will.
Looks like a whole new generation have got the taste for this unsavoury behaviour with many more wanting to be a part of the next instalment.
I fear the police and club have let the genie out the bottle by not getting to grips with the first meeting! I hope i'm wrong but if we remain in the same division for a few seasons its gonna get rocky!

you looked calm on tuesday

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

And for all the comments about him on here, Sid is on the mark and Uncle S isn't (imo.) Damage to the seating won't cause us any issues long term, kids and grandads getting hurt will.

Are you saying away fans smashing up the stands is not an issue ?.

 

[sydney]

This was policed by coppers that had no experience of football trouble.

Any of those that remember the 70s and 80s knew full well what was going to happen, and we had hoped the police may have had a idea.

Sadly both the police and the club didn't have a f***ing clue.

TB

looks very much like THIS. unbelievable as it may seem , can't believe OB gave 200+ palace lads an escort to the middle of town and then stood there and hemmed them in whilst they got slowly pissed......utterly f***ing ridiculous....in the old days this would have NOT happened , apparently sussex coppers are living in LA LA land and/or have the intelligence of your average clanger..........terrible policing.

 

[Betfair Bozo]

Are you saying away fans smashing up the stands is not an issue ?.

I am saying that Palace (or anyone else) damaging our seating will not cause us any issues long term. The club and the police not protecting our (and away) supporters adequately will. Like Sid, I think one is exponentially more important than the other.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Keep the away fans of those 4 clubs back for 20-30 mins until we've had a couple of trains in each direction, and a plethora of buses, then the home fans have dispersed, and trouble is averted.

That's over-simplistic. The home fans won't have dispersed in 20-30 minutes. Hasn't happened at any game yet. And read somewhere on here that the first Lewes-bound train didn't appear until 20 minutes after the final whistle on Tuesday.

Bussing the away fans from the ground straight to Brighton station or maybe to Haywards Heath station after the game would seem a more sensible solution.

 

[BHAryan]

Instead of locking the away fans in, how about we all stay in for 30mins, yes some of us would need to go early but have the club reduce the food and drink to half price and let us have a drink without leaving, 4 times a season isnt exactly hard to do.

 

[Gritt23]

That's over-simplistic. The home fans won't have dispersed in 20-30 minutes. Hasn't happened at any game yet. And read somewhere on here that the first Lewes-bound train didn't appear until 20 minutes after the final whistle on Tuesday.

Bussing the away fans from the ground straight to Brighton station or maybe to Haywards Heath station after the game would seem a more sensible solution.

I am over-simplistic!

But that would do for a lot of the "mingling" that causes the problem. With everyone outside milling around together there was no chance of keeping the 2 sets of supporters apart, but 30 mins later, the Brighton fans that are still about, have made their way to the station, so all other fans that make their way down ar ethe away fans.

I won't go into the full detail of how it should work, but suffice to say, the basic principle has to be that away fans on troublesome games must be kept back.

As for bussing them all to a particular station isn't great either. Not EVERY Palace fan is heading back to Croydon, some may even live in Brighton, Coldean, or wish to meet up with friends and family who are from Brighton. I remember the 5-0 at Selhurst, and I had a real job getting on anything other than a Brighton train, despite the fact I don't live anywhere near Brighton. There were also friends I was with who were meeting friends in Croydon, and had to make a run for it through the Police line to avoid being frogmarched to the station.

It's not an easy balance to reach, and there are numerous complications, but it is undoubtedly made easier by keeping away fans back.

 

[Gritt23]

Instead of locking the away fans in, how about we all stay in for 30mins, yes some of us would need to go early but have the club reduce the food and drink to half price and let us have a drink without leaving, 4 times a season isnt exactly hard to do.

No thanks, I get home late enough from games as it is.

 

[Dr. Notthenineo'clocknews]

I went on hols to Austria this year and took my young son to see Red Bull Salzburg vs Rapid Vienna. Footie was not great, but the atmosphere was fantastic. The bars in the ground opened up onto the pitch and you could take an ale to your seat. And get this. No segregation. Red Bull fans with Rapid fans. And they didn't hold back in slagging each other's teams off. But all the ire was directed at the pitch. There were two Rapid and Salzburg only areas where the fans could taunt each other, but in my stand we all mixed. What was telling was a net between the supporters and the pitch so that fans couldn't chuck things at players. Not at each other, at the players. Now I know that on the continent there is all sorts of problems, and this is an exception rather than the rule, but the point is, it was allowed to happen because of the attitude of the people in the seats, not because of the policing or the transport policy or the refreshments served up.

unfortuately this is the exception rather than the rule, if we're making European comparisons, If Lazio had capitulated at home to Roma in that fashion half the team would have recieved dog turds through the post by now (or within 28 days, depending on postcode)

 

[Storer 68]

Do we need a sense of proportion here.

A crowd of over 20,000 people resulted in 28 arrests. Roughly 0.01% of the crowd attending the match got their collar felt.

I would surmise that there were probably as many arrests in Brighton on Tuesday night as there were last Friday

 

[Storer 68]

Instead of locking the away fans in, how about we all stay in for 30mins, yes some of us would need to go early but have the club reduce the food and drink to half price and let us have a drink without leaving, 4 times a season isnt exactly hard to do.

Do we have to leave to get a drink? I was drinkng in the West stand Upper quite happily until about 10 ish

 

[PalaceKing]

The ridiculous thing is that a lot ofyou are posting absolute drivel declaring Palace as being violent scumbags etc. I'm not saying we don't have a idiotic minority of fans looking for bother but the bullshit about it being all us and your boys were lillywhite with your innocence is naive at best boldfaced lying at worst. Its been corroborated by a lot of your fans in other threads here that the morons who threw rocks at the Falmer Station were BRIGHTON fans throwing rocks at...BRIGHTON fans thinking that they were Palace fans. Sadly the most obvious option for me is keeping your boys behind 30minutes in the stadium where you can drink in your nice bars etc and letting the away fans go early. Think how quickly you can shift 2,200 away fans compared to 22000 Seasiders.

 

[Dr. Notthenineo'clocknews]

I was drinkng in the West stand Upper quite happily until about 10 ish

well we're all different I suppose

 

[Return of the Rev]

Do we need a sense of proposrtion here.

A crowd of over 20,000 people resulted in 28 arrests. Roughly 0.01% of the crowd attending the match got their collar felt.

I would surmise that there were probably as many arrests in Brighton on Tuesday night as there were last Friday

i had to miss the last couple of minutes to make sure i was not getting urinated on or had rocks thrown at me and the kids at the station,not sure this happens to us when going to the pictures at night in town! but might be different for you?
Also they could have arrested several hundred people if they had the balls!

 

[Betfair Bozo]

The ridiculous thing is that a lot ofyou are posting absolute drivel declaring Palace as being violent scumbags etc. I'm not saying we don't have a idiotic minority of fans looking for bother but the bullshit about it being all us and your boys were lillywhite with your innocence is naive at best boldfaced lying at worst. Its been corroborated by a lot of your fans in other threads here that the morons who threw rocks at the Falmer Station were BRIGHTON fans throwing rocks at...BRIGHTON fans thinking that they were Palace fans. Sadly the most obvious option for me is keeping your boys behind 30minutes in the stadium where you can drink in your nice bars etc and letting the away fans go early. Think how quickly you can shift 2,200 away fans compared to 22000 Seasiders.

It's obvious to anyone with even the merest hint of realism about them is this was trouble because it was Brighton v Palace. To single out either side is just wrong.