Cullip return?

[Uncle Buck]

Harding made the mistake against Akinbiyi that got him dropped AFTER Cullip left.

But perhaps Danny was still watching from the North Stand and scared him maybe.

You use the example from one game for a Harding mistake. In the games Harding played in 2005 he look a lot more composed and less nervous than he did in the ones in 2004. The game that I saw, which I doubt you can use as an example for Harding was for the Under 21's in Baku. He was going through one of his miserable runs for the Albion and yet looked half decent in an England shirt, passing the ball, moving defending well. The difference was Davenport was talking to him and encouraging him, rather than screaming at him. The next game he played was for us at Crewe and he was poor and oh, Sarge Major Cullip was screaming the fear of god into him. Post Cullip Harding's performances for the Albion improved no end, that is not a rewriting of history, but just plain facts.

 

[Brighton Boy]

You use the example from one game for a Harding mistake. In the games Harding played in 2005 he look a lot more composed and less nervous than he did in the ones in 2004. The game that I saw, which I doubt you can use as an example for Harding was for the Under 21's in Baku. He was going through one of his miserable runs for the Albion and yet looked half decent in an England shirt, passing the ball, moving defending well. The difference was Davenport was talking to him and encouraging him, rather than screaming at him. The next game he played was for us at Crewe and he was poor and oh, Sarge Major Cullip was screaming the fear of god into him. Post Cullip Harding's performances for the Albion improved no end, that is not a rewriting of history, but just plain facts.

agreed

 

[Pavilionaire]

It is a genuinely tough call. My first thought was Yes, I'd love him back all things being equal, but the team has moved on.

If he came back tomorrow I'd imagine Butters would be dropped. On paper Cullip and McShane is a great partnership but I don't think Cullip has much to teach McShane, and I doubt whether Cullip is humble enough to accept that leaving the Albion was wrong and that the young lad playing alongside him is a far better footballer.

 

[Simster]

Never go back.

 

[Albion Rob]

Must have been a big coincidence then that Harding and Virgo established themselves as first teamers a year before he left and Hinsh half a season before.

It really it is hilarious how prople twist the facts for what what amounts to quite the most ambitious piece of droll scapegoating that even this relentlessy hilarious site has ever indulged in

Daniel Harding is, apparantly, an emotional human being. Cullip had only left a couple of weeks before. I would imagine what put him off for the goal was that he didn't hear something like "Get your f***ing hands out your pockets." being bellowed at him as he tried (and failed) to shepherd the ball out.

Seriously though, and without wishing to generalise, the young lads did start to play a lot better after DC had gone. Our best run of the season was had once we'd adjusted to him leaving (Jan to March) and the youngsters were full of confidence.

While I'm not disputing that Harding and Virgo had established themselves as first-teamers, Harding played a lot better towards the end of the season, Hinsh firmly established himself (although this was largely due to the hole Cullip created by departing) and Jake Robinson began to realise the potential many suspected he had.

It also has to be said that once Cullip went somewehre that he wasn't top dog, he was shown the door a short time after.

This is in no way to reqrite history - he was, and to a degree is, a legend at the club - but he was what we needed at a certain time. We would no longer rely on what he brings to the side and whether that is a good or a bad thing is open to opinion.

 

[London Irish]

Daniel Harding is, apparantly, an emotional human being. Cullip had only left a couple of weeks before. I would imagine what put him off for the goal was that he didn't hear something like "Get your f***ing hands out your pockets." being bellowed at him as he tried (and failed) to shepherd the ball out.

Seriously though,

I'm glad you glimpse the absurdity of it - it really is bloody ridiculous to blame one player's form on another, but, yet, apparently people still do it - it cracks me up.

Seriously though, and without wishing to generalise, the young lads did start to play a lot better after DC had gone. Our best run of the season was had once we'd adjusted to him leaving (Jan to March) and the youngsters were full of confidence.

While I'm not disputing that Harding and Virgo had established themselves as first-teamers, Harding played a lot better towards the end of the season, Hinsh firmly established himself (although this was largely due to the hole Cullip created by departing) and Jake Robinson began to realise the potential many suspected he had.

Cullip held JAKE ROBINSON back So the youngsters finally adjusted to big bad wolf Cullip leaving by March, then? Not a great period to pick given that we then hit our worst form of the season when we couldn't buy a win and got horrendous five and four-goal thrashings! Hinshelwood, in particular was error-prone from Feb onwards, match-losing mistakes against Cardiff, Derby and Plymouth. I shall resist blaming that on Guy Butters though

The fact is, there is no credible or consistent case to be made that the young players form was either better or worse on the event of Cullip leaving. Why? Because Cullip is an utter, absurd red herring in judging other players' form!

I happen to believe Harding's most consistent run of form was his excellent first six months as a regular up to the Cardiff play-off final, under Cullip's constant and admirable guidance. Harding found the step up to Championship more taxing and his form fluctuated whether Cullip was there or not. The likes of Uncle Buck will conveniently erase games when he played excellently with Cullip, such as Gillingham away. If you take El Abd, his best run in the team came earlier in the season while Cullip was there, he has struggled to establish himself since those few weeks when he was a first choice regular.

It's very sad that so many NSC regulars have developed this bizarre scapegoating prejudice re. young players against Cullip.

I think we can argue the toss about whether Oatway or Mayo's playing contribution deserves legendary status, to even hint that Cullip's doesn't is ridiculous. This is a player that virtually never finished outside the top two or 3 in our player of the season polls and won it twice, including when we were in Division 1. He also consistently made PFA divisional selections.

The idea that a bully would win all these honours and awards, or that the brains trust of Hinshelwood, Wilkins, White, Booker and McGhee would allow the great flowering of youth talent to be compromised by a bully, is UTTERLY ABSURD.

 

[rool]

Skinhead players are soooo lower league anyway.

We should be moving on and looking at more players with lovely hair as they are clearly more talented.
FACT

 

[Albion Rob]

I'm glad you glimpse the absurdity of it - it really is bloody ridiculous to blame one player's form on another, but, yet, apparently people still do it - it cracks me up.



Cullip held JAKE ROBINSON back So the youngsters finally adjusted to big bad wolf Cullip leaving by March, then? Not a great period to pick given that we then hit our worst form of the season when we couldn't buy a win and got horrendous five and four-goal thrashings! Hinshelwood, in particular was error-prone from Feb onwards, match-losing mistakes against Cardiff, Derby and Plymouth. I shall resist blaming that on Guy Butters though

The fact is, there is no credible or consistent case to be made that the young players form was either better or worse on the event of Cullip leaving. Why? Because Cullip is an utter, absurd red herring in judging other players' form!

I happen to believe Harding's most consistent run of form was his excellent first six months as a regular up to the Cardiff play-off final, under Cullip's constant and admirable guidance. Harding found the step up to Championship more taxing and his form fluctuated whether Cullip was there or not. The likes of Uncle Buck will conveniently erase games when he played excellently with Cullip, such as Gillingham away. If you take El Abd, his best run in the team came earlier in the season while Cullip was there, he has struggled to establish himself since those few weeks when he was a first choice regular.

It's very sad that so many NSC regulars have developed this bizarre scapegoating prejudice re. young players against Cullip.

I think we can argue the toss about whether Oatway or Mayo's playing contribution deserves legendary status, to even hint that Cullip's doesn't is ridiculous. This is a player that virtually never finished outside the top two or 3 in our player of the season polls and won it twice, including when we were in Division 1. He also consistently made PFA divisional selections.

The idea that a bully would win all these honours and awards, or that the brains trust of Hinshelwood, Wilkins, White, Booker and McGhee would allow the great flowering of youth talent to be compromised by a bully, is UTTERLY ABSURD.

I think you've slightly misread what I said. I felt our best run of form came between January and March, I think the players adjusted to him leaving around Christmas and we pushed on from there.

That said, what I wouldn't have given to have him at the back in a couple of games where we got battered.

As far as bullying is concerned - do me a favour. No one is suggesting that he was piching Jake's pocket money or even threatening to blow Adam Hinshelwood's house down but at the time we had (and to a large extent still do have) some hardy old pros there and if people screwed up they were told about it in the most forthright of terms.

Now, I'm not saying that's not good for some. Adam Virgo for example seemed to thrive on the competition and so, I would guess by his body language and general on-pitch demeanour, would Dean Hammond. Harding didn't seem to. McPhee didn't seem to (although whether he is actually good enough to be a professional footballer anyway remains to be seen). To be fair, it wasn't just the youngsters. Watson was on the end of it a few times and he didn't react too well, as we all saw so painfully.

Regarding Harding - he wasn't really all that great in Division Two, was he? My memory is hazy but I seem to think he was regarded as someone who would be good in a few years, unfortunately we never got the chance to find that out. One thing that sticks in the mind is when he set up Swindon's second at Withdean in the playoffs. That could have been costly on many levels.

I suppose the point really is that different players react to others (and to criticism) in different ways. When Cullip was at his peak (and I don't feel he ever was for us at the current level), he was exactly what the team needed. I don't think the same approach would work with the current squad. Hence, if we had the chance to take him back I would rather we didn't.

I guess it's all about opinions.

 

[Sammy the seagull]

I'm glad you glimpse the absurdity of it - it really is bloody ridiculous to blame one player's form on another, but, yet, apparently people still do it - it cracks me up.



Cullip held JAKE ROBINSON back So the youngsters finally adjusted to big bad wolf Cullip leaving by March, then? Not a great period to pick given that we then hit our worst form of the season when we couldn't buy a win and got horrendous five and four-goal thrashings! Hinshelwood, in particular was error-prone from Feb onwards, match-losing mistakes against Cardiff, Derby and Plymouth. I shall resist blaming that on Guy Butters though

The fact is, there is no credible or consistent case to be made that the young players form was either better or worse on the event of Cullip leaving. Why? Because Cullip is an utter, absurd red herring in judging other players' form!

I happen to believe Harding's most consistent run of form was his excellent first six months as a regular up to the Cardiff play-off final, under Cullip's constant and admirable guidance. Harding found the step up to Championship more taxing and his form fluctuated whether Cullip was there or not. The likes of Uncle Buck will conveniently erase games when he played excellently with Cullip, such as Gillingham away. If you take El Abd, his best run in the team came earlier in the season while Cullip was there, he has struggled to establish himself since those few weeks when he was a first choice regular.

It's very sad that so many NSC regulars have developed this bizarre scapegoating prejudice re. young players against Cullip.

I think we can argue the toss about whether Oatway or Mayo's playing contribution deserves legendary status, to even hint that Cullip's doesn't is ridiculous. This is a player that virtually never finished outside the top two or 3 in our player of the season polls and won it twice, including when we were in Division 1. He also consistently made PFA divisional selections.

The idea that a bully would win all these honours and awards, or that the brains trust of Hinshelwood, Wilkins, White, Booker and McGhee would allow the great flowering of youth talent to be compromised by a bully, is UTTERLY ABSURD.

At least somone knows what there talking about

 

[king Wombat]

Skinhead players are soooo lower league anyway.

We should be moving on and looking at more players with lovely hair as they are clearly more talented.
FACT

I think we should be looking for players with mullets.