Congratulations George Dubya Bush

[tedebear]

If Bush gets in then the American population are more stupid than I thought....

 

[Commander]

"Commander - again you make a wild statement without actually putting up any argument against what I'm saying. I never said it was Armegeddon. I'm voicing my very real concerns about the stability of the world. The fact is that we are on the brink of a dire global emergency if things carry on as they are. That is fact and, again, if you want to see that as me being melodramatic then I can just about deal with it."


I see what you're saying, but your "The fact is that we are on the brink of a dire global emergency if things carry on as they are" comment is your opinion, not fact. I do think that you are being melodramatic, and I am glad to hear that you can cope with this. People have always thought that a huge disaster is just around the corner throughout history, it's human nature. And you are right when you say people had the same false sense of security before the second world war, and then their lives were blown apart. I'm sure they did, but that doesn't mean it is going to happen now. I can see that you don't like my mentality of just enjoying life and taking what comes next, but again that's up to you. I was just having a light-hearted discussion on a football (isn't that what this board is about) message board.
Chill, Winston.

 

[beorhthelm]

skitz, may i point out one important point about Kerry - he is NOT pro Kyoto. America is anti Kyoto. Both sides dislike it. Remember it was originally brought about under Clinton and he didnt agree with it. The idea that Kerry is substatially different from Bush on environment is a myth.

Also on oil, it not likly to run out anytime soon. there are vast deposits in Alaska, which make that in the middle east look like a puddle. It just costs a lot to extract and refine it so its left out of the equation at this stage.

 

[Easy 10]

I alone can't make the World a better place to live.

Everyone together can make the World a better place to live.

By being aware, for instance, of stuff like this, and taking an interest in it. So that the people in charge don't get away with shit. By protesting. Taking group action.

Except there's a load of dead weight holding the people back. You know, those stupid dicks who say "I don't care, I just want to have a good time". You think this is 'moaning'? Like Malcolm X and Martin Luther King were 'moaning'? Like talking about politics and discussing how we can change things for the better is 'moaning'?



Too right you only get one life on this planet, and it won't be a very long one for you or future generations if things carry on. How closely does this have to affect you personally before you do something about it? We've already had extreme weather and the pensions crisis recently, to name two. You want an example of how this will affect you and your family, friends and yes, even the Albion? Ok, how about economic and climate catastrophe in 10 years' time? http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/MultimediaFiles/Live/FullReport/6715.pdf [/B]

Thanks for the moral lecture skitz. You are a paragon of virtue, an inspiration, a shining light, a wise sage, a role model, a beacon in the darkness and an example to us all on how we ought to run our lives to make this world a better place. I am particularly in awe of your pity for our armed forces.

Good work fella.

 

[Commander]

Originally posted by Skitz (f***ed up quoting somehow)
"Commander - again you make a wild statement without actually putting up any argument against what I'm saying. I never said it was Armegeddon. I'm voicing my very real concerns about the stability of the world. The fact is that we are on the brink of a dire global emergency if things carry on as they are. That is fact and, again, if you want to see that as me being melodramatic then I can just about deal with it."


I see what you're saying, but your "The fact is that we are on the brink of a dire global emergency if things carry on as they are" comment is your opinion, not fact. I do think that you are being melodramatic, and I am glad to hear that you can cope with this. People have always thought that a huge disaster is just around the corner throughout history, it's human nature. And you are right when you say people had the same false sense of security before the second world war, and then their lives were blown apart. I'm sure they did, but that doesn't mean it is going to happen now. I can see that you don't like my mentality of just enjoying life and taking what comes next, but again that's up to you. I was just having a light-hearted discussion on a football (isn't that what this board is about) message board.
Chill, Winston.

 

[REDLAND]

I see what you're saying, but your "The fact is that we are on the brink of a dire global emergency if things carry on as they are" comment is your opinion, not fact.

Oh yes it is my friend, do you not read the news..

This has just turned up by the way it may help to convince you otherwise !!!


US prepares to activate missile defence system

WASHINGTON - The Pentagon is set to declare operational soon a multi-billion dollar system intended to defend America from attack by ballistic missiles, but which critics say will not work.

"We say to those tyrants who believe they can blackmail America and the free world - you fire, we're going to shoot it down," President George W Bush said in August. The Pentagon said the system would be deemed operational by year's end.

However, critics have strong doubts about the project, a descendant of the "Star Wars" shield idea envisioned by President Ronald Reagan in the 1980s that even the Pentagon admits will have only rudimentary capabilities initially.

The Pentagon has conducted no tests on the system since December 2002, and the eight earlier tests all were under contrived conditions, critics argued.

"What's wrong is they're claiming to have real capability when none has been demonstrated, and deploying a system so early," said Philip Coyle, a former assistant secretary of defence who helped evaluate missile defence under President Bill Clinton.

"This is like deploying a new military aircraft without the wings and the tail and the landing gear."

Rick Lehner, spokesman for the Pentagon's Missile Defence Agency, said the system is scheduled to be deemed operational by the end of the year.

Budgeted at more than US$50 billion over five years, it is built on the simple concept of blasting one missile out of the sky with another.

With a country like North Korea developing nuclear weapons and honing missile capabilities, advocates argue, America would be foolish not to guard against ballistic missiles. Pentagon officials said the system will get better with time -- and that even a limited missile defence is superior to none at all.

Five land-based interceptor missiles have been installed at Fort Greely in Alaska. A sixth is due there this month, and two more are set to be placed at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California by the end of 2004, Lehner said.

The Navy said last month a US destroyer with long-range missile-tracking equipment had begun patrols in the Sea of Japan, the system's first naval component to be put in place.

There have been eight major tests of the system in which interceptor missiles fired from Kwajalein Atoll in the Marshall Islands were intended to shoot down a dummy warhead launched from Vandenberg, about 7700km away. Three failed and five succeeded.

Another test is set for next month, Lehner said.

Coyle called the tests unrealistic. He said the Pentagon placed a beacon inside the "enemy" missile, helping the interceptor find it. Those trying to shoot it down knew the location and time of the launch and the flight trajectory.

Union of Concerned Scientists physicist Lisbeth Gronlund said the system is vulnerable to basic countermeasures an enemy might use to baffle the interceptors, such as decoys.

"It's just divorced from reality so far. If this were any other programme, they wouldn't even be talking about doing this for more than a decade," Gronlund said.

Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld faulted that argument.

"I think there are any number of things that you benefit greatly by getting it out there, playing with it, working with it, testing it, evolving it, learning about it, showing people what it can do, learning what it can do and what it can't do," Rumsfeld said. "And that is not rush to deployment, that's a rush to learning, by my standard."

 

[Marc]

Too right you only get one life on this planet, and it won't be a very long one for you or future generations if things carry on. How closely does this have to affect you personally before you do something about it? We've already had extreme weather and the pensions crisis recently, to name two. You want an example of how this will affect you and your family, friends and yes, even the Albion? Ok, how about economic and climate catastrophe in 10 years' time? http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/MultimediaFiles/Live/FullReport/6715.pdf

edit: apologies...just saw the Greenpeace thing and went off one one

 

[skitz]

I see what you're saying, but your "The fact is that we are on the brink of a dire global emergency if things carry on as they are" comment is your opinion, not fact.

It is a scientific fact. Check the link in my previous post or read up for yourself.

People have always thought that a huge disaster is just around the corner throughout history, it's human nature.

See above. Bush and his capitalist cronies weren't raping the environment back then.

I can see that you don't like my mentality of just enjoying life and taking what comes next, but again that's up to you.

I love life. I enjoy "taking what comes next." But I want to continue enjoying life, I want as many people in the world as possible to be able to enjoy life, and I want future generations to enjoy life. So when I see evil, money-hungry wankers like Bush posing a real threat to destroy the future in our lifetime, I kinda wanna do something about it.

I was just having a light-hearted discussion on a football (isn't that what this board is about) message board. Chill, Winston.

That's a bit of a change of tone from your abusive messages earlier. I am chilled, cheers. But this is not a thread about football and a discussion like this is obviously not going to be light-hearted in the main.

 

[larus]

I despair for the world, I do. It's not just Bush and his cronies, and the Saudis, and whoever else - it often looks like we've reached (note, not 'are approaching') an unsustainable position as a species. Most days I'm just wondering which of the half billion possible disasters that will f*** us all up for good will happen first. If you want to bury your head in the sand and call people who see it coming 'melodramatic' then, again, I can deal with that.

We always think that the status quo isn't going to change, that we're going to live out the rest of our lives in a cultural stasis. Not gonna happen. The people who lived through WWII probably thought exactly the same until their world fell apart. However, if you at least keep an eye on world affairs you might have a chance of seeing things coming. Of course you might not. Never forget, we are quite evidently living in an unsustainable situation - I'm sure if I, like Michael Moore or whoever, had the time I could construct a whole dossier of information proving this. What are we going to do when the oil runs out? What are we going to do when our entire generation gets old and find our pensions are f***ed cause the world economy can't sustain us, or if we didn't have pensions cause there was no point for the same reason? What are we going to do when someone lets rip with a dirty bomb in our seat of government? What are we going to do when an asteroid big enough to do some real damage falls somewhere 'important'? What are we going to do when our overuse of antibiotics causes some biblical plague that really can't be stopped - MRSA is a monster of a disease, and it's only pure luck that it's transmission vectors are quite limiting for it. The list goes on.

You seem to be angry at everything.

If we should be saving the planet, the 'economic' arguement you espouse on pensions is irrelevant, as if there is severe climatic change, who will give a f*** about their pension.

Secondly, if we are going to save the ecosystem, there will need to be a fundamental change to the way major economies of the world are run. To achieve this, all investment should be going into energy efficiency and using renewable, environmentally friendly forms of enery production.
If this was to be the no. 1 goal for man-kind (and I agree with you on this point as to its' importance), why throw in scare-mongering stories about asteroids. The technology doesn't exist to prevent a major asteroid strike (sorry Bruce W), so at present, that is a fate that we cannot control. If it takes 100 years to stabilise the emissions and levels of CO2 gases, then in cosmic terms, that is a blink of an eye. Mankind can worry about asteroids another century.

There are loads of other scenarios, super-volcanic erruptions which dwarf Krakatoa, one of the Canary islands will have a huge landslip at some time and cause a mega-tsunami which will cause major damage on the Americas.

As Easy points out, there is little that we can do as individuals, but that is not the same as saying, I can't do anything. If everyone was enerygy efficent, turned TV's off standbay, use energy efficent lightbulbs, never drove when they could walk, etc, tthese actions multiplied millions of time have an effect. However, it need the governents to make the major policy decisions based on public opinion and scientific evidence.

 

[Meade's Ball]

oh jesus I smell HIPPIE

"The worlds heading for catastrophe maaaan, cant you see what you doing to the environment?"

:thud:

Crabbers, shut up.
Skitz sounds like a passionate person and there's no need to mock that because of your own lethargy/apathy/whatever.

 

[Sorrel]

While I'm not a supporter of Bush, I'm quite happy he got back in, as it seems to annoy some people so much. Self-rightous indignation is always something we should laugh at.

As to whether modern humanity is destroying the world/environment: well, it probably is in some ways.
Whether the result of the 2004 US Presidential election affects this I very much doubt.

So while skitz has some good and important points, I think the energy is directed at the wrong target. Complaining about "evil, money-hungry wankers" probably includes most of the Democratic party as well.

The election result is not that important, in the same way that the invention of air travel is more important to us than the result of the 1904 US Presidential election.

 

[Commander]

That's a bit of a change of tone from your abusive messages earlier. I am chilled, cheers. But this is not a thread about football and a discussion like this is obviously not going to be light-hearted in the main. [/B]

My 'abusive messages' consisted of calling you a prick, because you said our armed forces didn't have guts. You fully deserved it.

 

[Marc]

Crabbers, shut up.
Skitz sounds like a passionate person and there's no need to mock that because of your own lethargy/apathy/whatever.

very true I apologise, I just saw the Greenpeace link and the brain went into that mode. sorry

 

[fatbadger]

If Bush gets in then the American population are more stupid than I thought....

Not stupid - just scared of the bogeyman.

 

[3gulls]

Great result! The Chin was a bigger joke than Bush!

 

[Meade's Ball]

very true I apologise, I just saw the Greenpeace link and the brain went into that mode. sorry

No worries. I just remembered being called a hippy at school because i handed out leaflets about Gulf War 1.

 

[REDLAND]

very true I apologise, I just saw the Greenpeace link and the brain went into that mode. sorry

Phew I'm glad about that !!

 

[caz99]

Another term for Bush may be a great victory for scare mongered Americans; In four years, global perception of the US has changed drastically for the worse due to Bush, and will continue to spiral downwards given another term in office. With Republicans dominant in the Senate and Congress there will be many more outrageous policies pushed through to carry on Bushes legacy of fear, greed Christian fanaticism.

its a sad day if you ask me.

 

[Smithers-Jones]

Skitz, you are obviously passionately committed to environmental issues, and for that I applaud you. However, I think what got a lot of peoples backs up was the way you tried to steam-roller your views in, implying that anybody who did not agree with you totally was in some way a Bush loving, planet destroying warmonger. A lot of what you have to say is very valid, some (as pointed out by others) is over the top.
I found your views on the armed forces in particular, to be patronising. As I said in a previous post, I served in the army, and can assure you that there are many over there who do have reservations about what they are doing.

On the subject of this being a referendum on Bush.. it is! Does anybody really believe that the vast majority of the American population have spent the past few days/weeks pondering the finer points of Kerry's manifesto? Have they bollocks! So I am afraid that Easy 10 is right, for many it will be "better the devil I know". For most yanks it boils down to this: "Who do I trust to stop terrorist attacks such as 9/11 happening again on US soil? I know sweet FA about Kerry and his policy, so I better stick with Dubya, because at least I know he is for a strong policy against terrorists."

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

No question the result is a huge disappointment but it's not a surprise. The' redneck' areas that voted Bush are also the heartland for the army. Last week we wnet with my wife's friends. Two of the husbands work for the US army in the UK. Their response was quite clear.... Bush f***ed up diplomatically but if Kerry gets in the army will be downsized and they'll lose their jobs. It means that Middle America will become a hole of unemployed untrained young men...that's why they vote Bush. The democrats never offer the army a choice.

Had to control myself from ripping their throats out and gettign them to look at the big picture but what can you say. Maybe Bush is a wanker but the democrats have given the US no viable alternative.. so they have betrayed the lectorate just as much.