Christmas and the Baby Jesus - Where's it Gone?

[Easy 10]

I was with a guy as he was dying a few weeks ago. Fairly young guy, only 60, had only been in church a couple of times in the last few years. But if he were still here he would tell you what he told his family - he had a very real experience of God about 18 hours before he died. You can come back and say he was making it up, but then why would he? What did he stand to gain? One thing was clear, he certainly believed it. There are plenty of others that will tell you the same. Trouble is, atheists dismiss them as crazy because it shakes their claim that there is no spiritual dimension to life. Reminds me of a kid standing with his fingers in his ears saying loudly "I'm not listening, I'm not listening..." while his brother tries to argue with him.

Personally, I'd put that down to the fear of impending death, and finding comfort in the notion that death is not The End. Believing what he wanted to believe at that point near the end of his life, to make his passing easier. I can't believe it was something based on logic, or on a specific occurence.

If he found that new-found faith comforting before he died then thats no bad thing of course. Thats not "crazy", its natural. Who knows, if I'm about to pop my clogs perhaps I'll suddenly find a spiritual side I never knew existed. But I reckon it'll be a reaction to try to build a more paletable truth than face up to the reality.

 

[bhaexpress]

I was with a guy as he was dying a few weeks ago. Fairly young guy, only 60, had only been in church a couple of times in the last few years. But if he were still here he would tell you what he told his family - he had a very real experience of God about 18 hours before he died. You can come back and say he was making it up, but then why would he? What did he stand to gain? One thing was clear, he certainly believed it. There are plenty of others that will tell you the same. Trouble is, atheists dismiss them as crazy because it shakes their claim that there is no spiritual dimension to life. Reminds me of a kid standing with his fingers in his ears saying loudly "I'm not listening, I'm not listening..." while his brother tries to argue with him.

I must admit that there's something that I find very interesting. Most doctors seem to say that it's just an hallucination caused by the trumour but it's fair to ask how do they know exactly ? There's no scientific proof of that is there ? As I say it's more the frankly stupid things some people say that annoys me.

Interesting sidebar to the above story about the injured child. The Grandmother used to have huge rows with her father when she first became a Christian because he was a Shriner. Now to those who don't know The Shriners are based on an ancient Arabic Order loosely based around Islam although they are of no specific religion. To became a Shriner you have to be a Freemason and thus you have to agree that there is a higher being which is the end of the religious side. The Shriners raise millions for charity specialising in Children's care across North America. My cousin's issue with them was odd to me but she'd got it into her heard they were am evil secret society. This came from her church.

She's a bit gutted to learn that the hospital the sick child is being treated in and so well looked after is a Shriner hospital !

 

[Lyndhurst 14]

“Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”

“The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has killed a great many philosophers”

– Diderot.

Sums it up for me.

 

[The Spanish]

“Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”

“The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has killed a great many philosophers”

– Diderot.

Sums it up for me.

Too right.

Philosophers are all f***ing talk and no action.

 

[magoo]

If you believe the Bible, fine. But believe every single word of it. Don't choose to believe it in parts then twist the more absurd stuff and say it's a metaphor!

By the way, i've asked for The God Delusion for Christmas. Ironic?

 

[magoo]

if I'm about to pop my clogs perhaps I'll suddenly find a spiritual side I never knew existed.

Exactly. Why do you think most religious people are elderly LOL!

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

Besides the bible (which some people question as a historical document (picky eh?)) what evidence is there for the existence of Jebus?

I do love your quote from Russell mate. Its funny that the peoplon this thread who are so sure are the aethesist.... not the religios... personally I'm always full of doubt... it keeps me on my toes.

 

[Dave the OAP]

If you believe the Bible, fine. But believe every single word of it. Don't choose to believe it in parts then twist the more absurd stuff and say it's a metaphor!

By the way, i've asked for The God Delusion for Christmas. Ironic?

dont buy it...ill lend it to you.

I gave up on it after three chapters

 

[magoo]

dont buy it...ill lend it to you.

I gave up on it after three chapters

Why?

 

[dougdeep]

Strange that people get religious just before death, when religion is one of the biggest killers of all time..

 

[Questions]

Strange that people get religious just before death, when religion is one of the biggest killers of all time..

When has religion killed anyone then ?

 

[magoo]

When has religion killed anyone then ?

:thud: lol.

 

[Muhammad - I’m hard - Bruce Lee]

 

[Winker]

The three biggest mass-murderers on this planet were Hitler, Stalin and Mao, all were atheists and accounted for 100million people between them.

Those who believe in evolution should answer the question of where our staple crops of wheat and rice come from as they have no ancestors growing in the wild.

They either came from God or aliens (One and the same thing?)....starts new debate....

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Christmas has just become over commercialised. Due to political correctness the religious aspect cannot be promoted as it offends other faiths. In the old days we would wish a merry christmas to everyone but now have to stop and think about upsetting a muslim or buddhist and who knows how to spot a Jehovahs Witness unless they're knocking on your door?.

 

[steward 433]

The three biggest mass-murderers on this planet were Hitler, Stalin and Mao, all were atheists and accounted for 100million people between them.

Those who believe in evolution should answer the question of where our staple crops of wheat and rice come from as they have no ancestors growing in the wild.

They either came from God or aliens (One and the same thing?)....starts new debate....

Er you kind of forgot the biggest mass murderer king Louis the twelth of France and the estimated 250 million he organised the deaths of in the crusades.

 

[Billy the Fish]

The three biggest mass-murderers on this planet were Hitler, Stalin and Mao, all were atheists and accounted for 100million people between them.

Those who believe in evolution should answer the question of where our staple crops of wheat and rice come from as they have no ancestors growing in the wild.

They either came from God or aliens (One and the same thing?)....starts new debate....

I can't be arsed to trawl throught that lot, but it looks like there plenty of answers there for you.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=evolution+of+plants&meta=&btnG=Google+Search

 

[Nemesis]

Why?

Not enough begatting?

 

[Nottseagull]

A man of faith could straight away reverse the exact same question to you.
You cannot disprove God scientifically.

Genesis, the cornerstone of Judaism and Christianity, has been disproved by science. The dwindling population of active Christians still cling to those beliefs which can't be proved either way.

 

[The Spanish]

Christmas has just become over commercialised. Due to political correctness the religious aspect cannot be promoted as it offends other faiths. In the old days we would wish a merry christmas to everyone but now have to stop and think about upsetting a muslim or buddhist and who knows how to spot a Jehovahs Witness unless they're knocking on your door?.

Jehovahs are easy. There used to be loads around Woodingdean I remember, is that still the case? They also had a big hall on the Falmer Road where they peddled their madcap beliefs.

We had plenty at school who always had to traipse out of assembly at the first mention of Bethlehem. Why is that?