Christmas and the Baby Jesus - Where's it Gone?

[Tyrone Biggums]

Well I still love to sing The Little Drummer Boy.

It's a lovely little tune.

To be honest i'm suck to f***ing death of the commercialism of christmas so i'm bringing back the christian element to my christmases.

Iv'e requested no presents this year.

 

[Rusthall Seagull]

Blimey, you mean fossils and that are made up?

nope, but carbon dating is though

 

[User removed 4]

nope, but carbon dating is though

really ?? im serious , has it been discovered that carbon dating is unreliable ?

 

[Rusthall Seagull]

I am chilled, I like a good discussion about religion and see no reason why it should be heated or bound in aggression.

Quite happy to discuss the subject and I have no angst against those with strong faith at all, in fact i am interested to know what gives them that strong faith and belief in God.I attended a Roman Catholic school but now consider myself an Athiest so have a real interest in the topic.

ok, but can I bail out until closer to Christmas? Busy boy at work and no time to get to in depth. Lets re-schedule for a date nearer the BIG day when I am moving quickly into the Christmas period?

Or until I am really pissed and up for it

 

[London Calling]

Back to Hackney which is now fairly ethnically balanced.

Festive lights, white, appear around October, to celebrate Eid, Ramadan, thenanother Jewish Festival, then I think there is a Kurdish one, then swiftly onto XMAS or the Pagan celebration, then Jewish one, then the Chinese New Year. The lights are around for about 5 months, I like them but can't see the point in taking them down..

Few Santa or Cribs seen here, though they do that at the schools.

 

[Don Quixote]

What's more bizarre is we celebrate something that never even happened

Might as well celebrate the birth of Frodo Baggins!!

You are misguided, Jesus did really exist; if he was the son of God however is another dispute.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

nope, but carbon dating is though

You mean the half life of Carbon14 isn't that after all?

 

[Mellotron]

I'm well not getting involved this time. Religious debate takes it out of me, it's an argument without a conclusion ever.

 

[bhaexpress]

I'm well not getting involved this time. Religious debate takes it out of me, it's an argument without a conclusion ever.

Well there is, give we heathens just a little bit of proof that any higher authority exists and that would be and end of it would it not ? On the other hand given the simple fact that there is nothing what so ever to back claims of such a being (Three in One if you're a Catholic) go figure.

 

[Silent Bob]

I think most people don't mind others believing in religion, the problem is when it infringes on facts. Saying Jesus never existed is probably a little silly, although whether he was the son of God or all the stories told about him in the Bible are true is a matter of faith. But to then go and say evolution and carbon dating and evolution are "made up" is the kind of comment that makes religious people out to have at the very least totally misunderstood those things.

 

[Mellotron]

Well there is, give we heathens just a little bit of proof that any higher authority exists and that would be and end of it would it not ? On the other hand given the simple fact that there is nothing what so ever to back claims of such a being (Three in One if you're a Catholic) go figure.

A man of faith could straight away reverse the exact same question to you.

You cannot prove God scientifically.

You cannot disprove God scientifically.

Thus the debate will continue on forever.

 

[Mellotron]

I think most people don't mind others believing in religion, the problem is when it infringes on facts. Saying Jesus never existed is probably a little silly, although whether he was the son of God or all the stories told about him in the Bible are true is a matter of faith. But to then go and say evolution and carbon dating and evolution are "made up" is the kind of comment that makes religious people out to have at the very least totally misunderstood those things.

I have to admit misunderstanding, there are two lots of evolution?

 

[Mellotron]

I think most people don't mind others believing in religion, the problem is when it infringes on facts. Saying Jesus never existed is probably a little silly, although whether he was the son of God or all the stories told about him in the Bible are true is a matter of faith. But to then go and say evolution and carbon dating and evolution are "made up" is the kind of comment that makes religious people out to have at the very least totally misunderstood those things.

Macro-evolution has not yet been proved. I have no issues with the theory of evolution overall, and see no reason why it cannot sit alongside faith.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Of course science is used as a reason that God does not exist as mankind seems to think it is so clever now.....however 100 years ago science in the way we now know it, didnt exist.

In fact 500 years ago, we thought the earth was flat and the heavens revolved around the earth.

It will be interesting to see what the next great thinking will be.

When people ask me about religion, I always state I am an architectural and cultural Christian, ie I love the music and like the architecture, the bigotry and the suffering in the name of religion is my nemesis I am afraid

As the great Terry Pratchett wrote.

One day there was absolutely nothing.....then it exploded!!!

 

[bhaexpress]

A man of faith could straight away reverse the exact same question to you.

You cannot prove God scientifically.

You cannot disprove God scientifically.

Thus the debate will continue on forever.

Not really, has anybody seen, heard, felt, smelled this God chap (or his mate Allah) ? No, thought not, what else is there to say ? After all, it's as valid as saying there are little green men on Mars even though we've never had any confirmation of this fact.

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

Not really, has anybody seen, heard, felt, smelled this God chap (or his mate Allah) ? No, thought not, what else is there to say ? After all, it's as valid as saying there are little green men on Mars even though we've never had any confirmation of this fact.

.. or intelligent life anywhere else in the universe... havent seen them or smelt them so therefore cant exist...

seem to think we had similar ideas about things like bacteria some time ago...

Why is it that those who argue against religion keep using simplistic arguments that are self-defeating like the one above? OK, us religios are expected to do that because we believe in something that is patently so silly but really!!! You do expect the non-religos to come up with something better... after all truth is on their side.

Just as an aside here... although I DO have faith its my faith and I quite accept that I might be wrong.... I made my choice.. and everyone must make theirs and be respected for it.... would be nice if I could get the same respect too..... ah well.

 

[Nottseagull]

Birth of baby Jesus =

Stuff yourself silly with huge roast dinner
Give each other loads of presents
Stick a big tree in your house and cover it with tat
Cover house with tat
Cover office with tat
Listen to rubbish novelty songs
Make kids excited about a fat bearded man in a red suit coming down a chimney
Take loads off time off work

You forgot "get rat-arsed and fight with your fellow (Christians?) in the street"

 

[Juan Albion]

Not really, has anybody seen, heard, felt, smelled this God chap (or his mate Allah) ? No, thought not

I was with a guy as he was dying a few weeks ago. Fairly young guy, only 60, had only been in church a couple of times in the last few years. But if he were still here he would tell you what he told his family - he had a very real experience of God about 18 hours before he died. You can come back and say he was making it up, but then why would he? What did he stand to gain? One thing was clear, he certainly believed it. There are plenty of others that will tell you the same. Trouble is, atheists dismiss them as crazy because it shakes their claim that there is no spiritual dimension to life. Reminds me of a kid standing with his fingers in his ears saying loudly "I'm not listening, I'm not listening..." while his brother tries to argue with him.

 

[bhaexpress]

.
Why is it that those who argue against religion keep using simplistic arguments that are self-defeating like the one above? OK, us religios are expected to do that because we believe in something that is patently so silly but really!!! You do expect the non-religos to come up with something better... after all truth is on their side.

What's self defeating about that ? Accuracy ?

Right now a born again Christian cousin of mine has a very sick granddaughter who was badly injured in an accident, a pure accident no more no less. Thankfully the child will recover but may be scarred for life. Said BAC has asked us all to pray of course. Now that I am pleased to say the child is recovering she was on Facebook saying 'Praise be the Lord, Our God is so big'.

Not big enough to prevent the unfortunate child from being badly hurt in the first place obviously.

I couldn't care less about what people choose to believe but spare us all the crap about an 'All Powerful and Loving God', clearly he hates some of us even little children.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

I think most people don't mind others believing in religion, the problem is when it infringes on facts. Saying Jesus never existed is probably a little silly, although whether he was the son of God or all the stories told about him in the Bible are true is a matter of faith. But to then go and say evolution and carbon dating and evolution are "made up" is the kind of comment that makes religious people out to have at the very least totally misunderstood those things.

Besides the bible (which some people question as a historical document (picky eh?)) what evidence is there for the existence of Jebus?