Child Abuse in the Catholic Church

[drew]

The ironic thing in all this religous bashing is that the MAJORITY of ALL child abuse takes place in the family home (We studied this in 1st year of uni-sorry i haven't got a link to the evidence cos i'm at work) . But i won't let that evidence get in the way of you bashing the church over one twat from 1950.

Like BHA Express i am not a practising catholic (lapsed, what ever you wanna call it, in fact i'm proably more secular than catholic). I'm not sure if he has totally washed his hands of the religion, i can't remember what he said. Any way i'm divulging. Alot of my family and loved ones are devout catholics so that's why i'll always jump to it's defence. Everyone to do with the church are gutted about all this, and any cover ups should be exposed and those guilty brought to justice. But this thread and these media stories have detracted from the good things that come from the church and now the whole thing has become a vilification on the church as a whole.

I think you're missing the point. I don't believe people on here are bashing catholics. I was educated at a catholic school and send my daughter to one and have no reason to suspect any of the teachers. The criticism is entirely against the hierachy of the church who, in my view, are worse than the perpertrators. The paedophiles are sick and perverted and probably can justify their actions to themselves. However, the church leaders that protected them knew they were wrong but instead of protecting the weak and vulnerable, they exacerbated their suffering by, in effect, turning a blind eye.

And let's be honest, it's not the first scandal to hit the catholic church (or many others before you get all defensive). Look at the conspiracy theories that followed the death of Pope John Paul in 1978 and the subsequent revelations about corruption in the Vatican Bank.

 

[DerbyGull]

I think you're missing the point. I don't believe people on here are bashing catholics. I was educated at a catholic school and send my daughter to one and have no reason to suspect any of the teachers. The criticism is entirely against the hierachy of the church who, in my view, are worse than the perpertrators. The paedophiles are sick and perverted and probably can justify their actions to themselves. However, the church leaders that protected them knew they were wrong but instead of protecting the weak and vulnerable, they exacerbated their suffering by, in effect, turning a blind eye.

And let's be honest, it's not the first scandal to hit the catholic church (or many others before you get all defensive). Look at the conspiracy theories that followed the death of Pope John Paul in 1978 and the subsequent revelations about corruption in the Vatican Bank.

Can't argue with any of that and i echo the sentiments about the hierarchy, i hope they are brought to justice.

 

[DerbyGull]

Is the Facepalm cos you don't believe that the majority of Child abuse takes place in the home? I'll fish out the literature another day.

 

[DJ Leon]

Is the Facepalm cos you don't believe that the majority of Child abuse takes place in the home? I'll fish out the literature another day.

Sorry, what's your point? That priests aren't as bad as Dads?

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Can't argue with any of that and i echo the sentiments about the hierarchy, i hope they are brought to justice.

Finally my friend you have posted the correct answer. At no point did I or anyone else point the finger directly at any normal common al garden Catholic. It's the fact that the hierarchy of the church has hidden the fact of abuse and by its actions caused further untold damage to many many innocent children. The problem that I and many, have with Catholics per se is that they find it hard to question their own church and its teaching and their own beliefs. That quite honestly is why many with their own conviction leave the Catholic Church. This exposé goes right to the top and if the Catholic Church does not realise the anger amongst the general public at large for it's dishonesty, then frankly the integrity of the organisation could be damaged forever.

Finally as you will know with your knowledge of abuse, studied at uni, the abused become tomorrows abusers (obviously not all but a high percentage) and with that FACT the Church has bred this by its non-resolution of the issue. SHAME ON ALL CONCERNED.

 

[DerbyGull]

Finally my friend you have posted the correct answer. At no point did I or anyone else point the finger directly at any normal common al garden Catholic. It's the fact that the hierarchy of the church has hidden the fact of abuse and by its actions caused further untold damage to many many innocent children. The problem that I and many, have with Catholics per se is that they find it hard to question their own church and its teaching and their own beliefs. That quite honestly is why many with their own conviction leave the Catholic Church. This exposé goes right to the top and if the Catholic Church does not realise the anger amongst the general public at large for it's dishonesty, then frankly the integrity of the organisation could be damaged forever.

Finally as you will know with your knowledge of abuse, studied at uni, the abused become tomorrows abusers (obviously not all but a high percentage) and with that FACT the Church has bred this by its non-resolution of the issue. SHAME ON ALL CONCERNED.

Top post!

I know alot of catholics who question the church, as do i.

The pope's damnation of the use of condoms is ridiculous (especially in AIDS infested Africa)

I think it's in the mid 30% range of those abused go on to abuse.

Very sad indeed.

Now i'm in need of a few pints after my 3-11pm shift

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

The pope's damnation of the use of condoms is ridiculous (especially in AIDS infested Africa)

There's only one nation in all of Africa that can be cited as a Catholic nation(Uganda).

And that nation has actually decreased the incidence of AIDS.

So I'm not sure how what he said has sod all to do with Africa's overall plight?

 

[DJ Leon]

There's only one nation in all of Africa that can be cited as a Catholic nation(Uganda).

And that nation has actually decreased the incidence of AIDS.

So I'm not sure how what he said has sod all to do with Africa's overall plight?

There are 130 million catholics in Africa.

 

[DerbyGull]

There's only one nation in all of Africa that can be cited as a Catholic nation(Uganda).

And that nation has actually decreased the incidence of AIDS.

So I'm not sure how what he said has sod all to do with Africa's overall plight?

Ok no worries that's grouse. I was under the asumption that there were alot of christian african countries. I know my friend from Ghana is a christian or are we talking exclusively catholic? Any the catholic church's attitude towards gays is something i don't agree with and they should accept them as god's creatures rather than as abnormalities.

 

[beorhthelm]

There's only one nation in all of Africa that can be cited as a Catholic nation(Uganda).

UK isnt a "Catholic nation" either does that mean there are no catholics here? The catholic position on birth control and condoms in particular is directly responsible for a great deal of STD transmission and poverty due to over population, throughout africa, south america and SE Asia.

 

[Spartak Us]

if you were a pedophile back when this sort of thing was commonplace and people KNEW it was going on but just dont a blind eye, would you consider the prietshood as a career in order to get close to children?

seems to me that it could be a bit of a vicious circle

It's pAedophile dummy. Who taught you English at school??...Oh

 

[DerbyGull]

Sorry, what's your point? That priests aren't as bad as Dads?

My point is there is a certain degree of hypocracy going on here. There are a couple of hundred thousand kids on the child protection register in this country. Most of which are being abused by mum/dad/stepmum/stepdad/guardian in there own home.

 

[DJ Leon]

My point is there is a certain degree of hypocracy going on here. There are a couple of hundred thousand kids on the child protection register in this country. Most of which are being abused by mum/dad/stepmum/stepdad/guardian in there own home.

Still not getting your point really. Where's the hypocrisy?

There are obviously plenty of people who abuse children that are NOT in the catholic clergy (is that your point?) but there IS an abnormally high rate of abuse in that profession and given their position of trust, not to mention their moral rectitude, people are justifiably disgusted and angry.

I'm not sure why anyone is seeking to lessen the impact of these appalling crimes. Why do we need to recognise that other people abuse children as well or that the catholic church do a lot of good? Why?

 

[DerbyGull]

Still not getting your point really. Where's the hypocrisy?

There are obviously plenty of people who abuse children that are NOT in the catholic clergy (is that your point?) but there IS an abnormally high rate of abuse in that profession and given their position of trust, not to mention their moral rectitude, people are justifiably disgusted and angry.

I'm not sure why anyone is seeking to lessen the impact of these appalling crimes. Why do we need to recognise that other people abuse children as well or that the catholic church do a lot of good? Why?

Fair do's DJ. And no we do not want to lessen the impact of this, we're all in agreement this is heinous.
I wouldn't say there is an abnormally high rate of abuse in that profession. I read in the times that over a 60yr period 0.4% of priests had had allegations made against them, with most of the cases being dropped because of false allegations.

I guess my point is, YES 1 is too many. But i'd feel alot safer if my kid was with a priest rather than alot of teachers, caretakers, carehomes.

 

[drew]

Is the Facepalm cos you don't believe that the majority of Child abuse takes place in the home? I'll fish out the literature another day.

Sorry for the late reply. No, I don't dispute the figures and have heard them before but this debate is about the hierachy of a religious organisation where criminals have been protected for all the wrong reasons.

It's similar to a bent copper getting publicity. We know most crime isn't commited by the Police because it's their duty to uphold the law, not break it.

 

[DerbyGull]

Sorry for the late reply. No, I don't dispute the figures and have heard them before but this debate is about the hierachy of a religious organisation where criminals have been protected for all the wrong reasons.

It's similar to a bent copper getting publicity. We know most crime isn't commited by the Police because it's their duty to uphold the law, not break it.

True enough drew. Tbh i hope this is a wakeup call to the hierarchy. Unfortunately humans by their very nature are corrupt (Even the Church hierarchy) police, gov't and all.

There is also this thing called 'the dark figure' of crime, the stuff that slips the net, the stuff we'll never know about. This of course applies to every type pf crime, because let's be honest a hell of a lot of people get away with crimes they've committed.

This scandal is triple a WHAMMY if you like, and now i'm starting to realise that. It's not just the CRIME, but that it happened in the CHURCH and was covered up by men entrusted by GOD.

On a final note, even if they're getting upto funny stuff i firmly believe there real punishment is given to them by GOD when they die, i know non-believers will probably see this as a cop out though, which is understandable.

 

[KZNSeagull]

It has nothing to do with religion it is a lack of education.
If they were educated properly then they would use condoms to prevent the spread of HIV and other STDs.

If you are educated enough you will realise that you can make a decision for yourself and follow what other people say, regardless of your religion.

A little simplistic, I'm afraid.

I cannot talk about other parts of the world, but here it is mainly a cultural thing. Many Zulu girls get pregnant very young as a result of them having to prove that they can have children (mainly to their parents who can then charge a higher dowry for them). This cannot be achieved wearing a condom. Having spoken to several doctors in AIDS clinics, it does not matter how many times you tell Zulu men, they refuse to use a condom. The situation is not helped by the current SA president having unprotected sex himself.

This is why the unofficial rate of HIV infection in rural parts of South Africa is nearer 50% than the official 20%.

As for making a decision for yourself, then that is not wholly a product of your education, it is a product of your entire upbringing including your parents, peers, teachers and respected elders. Unfortunately for some in this world, if they are told that by doing something they will grow closer to God, be that blowing themselves and others up, raping 5 year olds or having sex with as many people as possible, then they will do it unquestioningly.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Too true that.....they are idiots....and that makes me angry!

It does not necessarily make them idiots. It makes them different.