Chelmsford awarded city status

[Seagull58]

Chelmsford is pretty well a London suburb. Always thought that Perth was already a city. Luton? No way.
St. Asaph is an attractive name and is in Wales but know nothing more.

St Asaph had shedloads of government money thrown at it 10 to 15 years ago to develop the RAF aircraft repair and overhaul facility into a competitive commercial and military aerospace centre. Sod all else there and the facility is virtually empty due to the inability to win competitive business. Its near Cardiff so no reason whatsoever to go within 50 miles of the place.

 

[Nottseagull]

And I don't see why I'd need to have a link to Guildford Cathedral's website, I see it everyday, and have even been in it a couple of times...

Simply because any place with a cathedral (and, I think, a minster) is automatically a city in the eyes of the Church.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Simply because any place with a cathedral (and, I think, a minster) is automatically a city in the eyes of the Church.

Link to this piece of information?

 

[beorhthelm]

Originally cities were called a city because they had a Anglican cathedral, then in the last 150 years city status has been granted to 'towns' with a large population.

never has having a cathedral defined being a "city". the title is title is granted by royal proclamation (letters patent or somthing?), it just so happens that in the past those settlements with a catherdral were usually significant enough to also be granted the status of a city. there are no formal requirements for granting the status, never have been. (edit: that last bits bollocks, there was once but no longer in effect.)

and the eyes of the church as sweet fa to do with it. i think the Town status of Chelmsord prior to today rather proves there isnt such a rule. there is also no City of Southwark either, despite have a cathedral (independent of the City of London and City of Westminister).

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

Did I see CROYDON was on the shortlist!

And Reading, who were very keen on their nondescript town attaining city status. Maybe the powers that be took a look at the plastic MadStad and decaying Selhurst and thought: No way ...

 

[Sussex Nomad]

and the eyes of the church as sweet fa to do with it. i think the Town status of Chelmsord prior to today rather proves there isnt such a rule. there is also no City of Southwark either, despite have a cathedral (independent of the City of London and City of Westminister)

What I was thinking which is why I requested some information. I think our friend is desperately trying to dig himself out of a hole and slipping further down.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

City status in the United Kingdom is granted by the British monarch to a select group of communities. The holding of city status gives a settlement no special rights other than that of calling itself a "city". Nonetheless, this appellation carries its own prestige and, consequently, competitions for the status are hard fought. The status does not apply automatically on the basis of any particular criteria, although in England and Wales it was traditionally given to towns with diocesan cathedrals. This association between having a cathedral and being called a city was established in the early 1540s when King Henry VIII founded dioceses (each having a cathedral in the see city) in six English towns and also granted them city status by issuing letters patent.
City status in Ireland was granted to far fewer communities than in England and Wales, and there are only two pre nineteenth century cities in present-day Northern Ireland. In Scotland, city status did not explicitly receive any recognition by the state until the nineteenth century. At that time, a revival of grants of city status took place, first in England, where the grants were accompanied by the establishment of new cathedrals, and later in Scotland and Ireland.
In the twentieth century, it was explicitly recognised that the status of city in England and Wales would no longer be bound to the presence of a cathedral, and grants made since have been awarded to communities on a variety of criteria, including population size.
The abolition of some corporate bodies as part of successive local government reforms, beginning with the Municipal Corporations (Ireland) Act 1840, has deprived some ancient cities of their status. However, letters patent have been issued for most of the affected cities to ensure the continuation or restoration of their status. At present, Rochester and Elgin are the only former cities in the United Kingdom: despite the lack of formal status the first three places are commonly referred to as "cities", at least by their inhabitants.
It is important to note, however, that the suffix "City" does not, in itself, denote city status; it may be appended to UK locations for reasons of historical association (e.g. White City) or for marketing purposes (e.g. Stratford City)

 

[Thunder Bolt]

never has having a cathedral defined being a "city". the title is title is granted by royal proclamation (letters patent or somthing?), it just so happens that in the past those settlements with a catherdral were usually significant enough to also be granted the status of a city. there are no formal requirements for granting the status, never have been. (edit: that last bits bollocks, there was once but no longer in effect.)

and the eyes of the church as sweet fa to do with it. i think the Town status of Chelmsord prior to today rather proves there isnt such a rule. there is also no City of Southwark either, despite have a cathedral (independent of the City of London and City of Westminister).

I didn't say that there was a rule but that the monarch granted city status to cathedral cities a few centuries ago. The eyes of the monarch were more important than the eyes of the church although a lot of the time they were intrinsically entwined.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_status_in_the_United_Kingdom

I love this-highlighted

The same objections were made when the London Boroughs of Croydon and Southwark unsuccessfully entered the competition for city status to mark the millennium: Croydon was said to have "no particular identity of its own" while Southwark was "part of London with little individual identity".[2] When the most recent competition was held to mark the Golden Jubilee of 2002, Croydon made a sixth application, again unsuccessful. It was joined by the London Borough of Greenwich, which emphasised its royal and maritime connections, while claiming to be "to London what Versailles is to Paris".[2]
[edit]Scotland

 

[Tricky Dicky]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_status_in_the_United_Kingdom

I love this-highlighted

The same objections were made when the London Boroughs of Croydon and Southwark unsuccessfully entered the competition for city status to mark the millennium: Croydon was said to have "no particular identity of its own" while Southwark was "part of London with little individual identity".[2] When the most recent competition was held to mark the Golden Jubilee of 2002, Croydon made a sixth application, again unsuccessful. It was joined by the London Borough of Greenwich, which emphasised its royal and maritime connections, while claiming to be "to London what Versailles is to Paris".[2]
[edit]Scotland

Pure ignorance here - can you have a city within a city ? If Croydon is a London Borough, surely that makes it part of the city of London (not the old Square mile), how can it have city status of its own ?

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Pure ignorance here - can you have a city within a city ? If Croydon is a London Borough, surely that makes it part of the city of London (not the old Square mile), how can it have city status of its own ?

City of Westminster and City of London are both city's in their own right.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

City of Westminster and City of London are both city's in their own right.

Well, I have learnt something from this thread then.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Pure ignorance here - can you have a city within a city ? If Croydon is a London Borough, surely that makes it part of the city of London (not the old Square mile), how can it have city status of its own ?

A nice map of the City of London. Croydon nowhere near.

http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/7342D2E3-FE86-4113-91B1-1716E65B3BB2/0/AU_MP_colbuildings.pdf

 

[Curious Orange]

Simply because any place with a cathedral (and, I think, a minster) is automatically a city in the eyes of the Church.

That's a new one on me... and a bit odd given that the Supreme Governor of the Church of England is Queen Elizabeth the 2nd of England (and 1st of Scotland), and she is the only person who is able to decree that somewhere here is a City, something she palpably hasn't done to Guildford since its Cathedral was consecrated in 1961. She doesn't seem to have the same view as her own church.

 

[beorhthelm]

I didn't say that there was a rule but that the monarch granted city status to cathedral cities a few centuries ago. The eyes of the monarch were more important than the eyes of the church although a lot of the time they were intrinsically entwined.

thats fair enough, i think i over stressed the point.

Pure ignorance here - can you have a city within a city ? If Croydon is a London Borough, surely that makes it part of the city of London (not the old Square mile), how can it have city status of its own ?

to follow LondonBlue's point, the City of London is the square mile. the boroughs only existed relativly recently, well into the 1800's the counties of Surrey and Middlesex went right up to the river except for the small Westminster/City strip. hence why Surrey Cricket club plays at Oval and MCC play at Lords, both 10 country miles inside London. then there was a County of London period up into the 1900's. without looking it up i'd wager Croydon came into being in the 1960's?

 

[Manx Shearwater]

...without looking it up i'd wager Croydon came into being in the 1960's?

Its still there.

 

[Gavin Macleod]

Perth City

Delighted Perth has been awarded City status, which was removed by stupid local government bureaucracy in 1975.
Born and bred in the Fair City so am a St Johnstone fan and BHA fan , how many can say that?
I did want to start a Perth Exiled Saints supporters club in Sussex but PESTS sounds a bit naff.
Come on ye Saints & Seagulls! Europe & Play-offs beckon.....

 

[Manx Shearwater]

I did want to start a Perth Exiled Saints supporters club in Sussex

You'd still get more attendees than Palace get at their quiz nights!

 

[Fergus96]

delighted perth has been awarded city status, which was removed by stupid local government bureaucracy in 1975.
Born and bred in the fair city so am a st johnstone fan and bha fan , how many can say that?
I did want to start a perth exiled saints supporters club in sussex but pests sounds a bit naff.
Come on ye saints & seagulls! Europe & play-offs beckon.....

sussex pests - wrong on so many levels

 

[Gavin Macleod]

Excellent! I understand I just need another 8 PESTS then?

You'd still get more attendees than Palace get at their quiz nights!