[Politics] Brexit

[pastafarian]

A million refugees is certainly a lot for one country to handle at short notice, especially when you consider that many British people apparently feel that the 4000 a year our nation is accepting from Syria is excessive. But there again, Germans seem to think differently to the English about refugees - whilst our immigrant numbers apparently contributed heavily to the result on June 23, Germany's burgeoning anti-immigration AfD still has less than one third the support that the pro-immigration parties have.

Immigration on the German level looks collosal to to my uneducated eye but what do I know - and just for the record Merkel has NOT said that it was a mistake per se to allow so many migrants in - she simply said that she wished Germany had been better prepared for them.

for what its worth i dont think the 4000 a year is excessive . The 20000 promised over 5 years is about spot on. If it all runs smoothly there may even be scope for some more. Cant say i was aware that there was a significant number of people in the country that considered this figure excessive to constitute a label of "many".
There will of course be people that want zero......but surely a tiny minority

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Apart form your own slur (never hurts to throw in some casual racism when building a straw man), what part is not true?

There are thousands and thousands of migrants trying to enter the UK.

Wanting them not to come is a legitimate stance, despite the concerted and shameful effort to blur the line between border control and racism.

Don't shoot the messenger. The racial slur was Farage's - his choice of a photo featuring non-Europeans must have been deliberate, intended to reach a market that might not be swayed by an image of Caucasians. Why else would he select a photo of people who weren't actually on their way to the UK? Why else would Gove shudder and Boris disassociate himself from it?

You ask what's not true about the poster. What's not true is its clear implication.

 

[sir albion]

Then why did his poster feature refugees whose arrival or not in the UK has nothing to do with our membership of the EU?

It's the EU and merkels policies that allow these people to make the journey to Europe....have you ever seen any of this before I,e Iraq and Afghanistan etc? Once you step foot on European soil you're protected at some point.If every country had the powers to do what they wanted including borders etc you wouldn't have these issues.

The EU plonkers caused this and this means you get people from everywhere attempting to get to Europe....just the beginning thanks to the wonderfully bright bellends in Brussels.

 

[pastafarian]

Don't shoot the messenger. The racial slur was Farage's - his choice of a photo featuring non-Europeans must have been deliberate, intended to reach a market that might not be swayed by an image of Caucasians. Why else would he select a photo of people who weren't actually on their way to the UK? Why else would Gove shudder and Boris disassociate himself from it?

You ask what's not true about the poster. What's not true is its clear implication.

Considering the photo was taken in Slovenia im sure there are Kosovans and Albanians amongst those people.
Eurostats own figures indicate large numbers of people from these European countries used the migrations to travel and claim asylum and in cases pretend to be Syrian.

How do you know none of the people during the crisis were on their way to The UK.?
Even the fact the jungle has been growing in size would suggest some people have been gradually making their way to Calais.

 

[yxee]

Don't shoot the messenger. The racial slur was Farage's

So he called the migrants a "dusky hoard", or was that your own embellishment?

This is a distasteful game you're playing.

 

[pastafarian]

I am not sure how much you know about advertising and PR but if you claim that me, Boris Johnson and the shuddering Michael Gove are all guilty of flippant misrepresentation then I can only marvel. The aim of the poster was clearly to frighten people into thinking that dusky hordes would be heading our way unless we voted Leave which is why both sides of the argument criticised it.

I didnt say Johnson and Gove were guilty of that at all.
They didnt say the poster said " The Syrians are coming"
That was all you

 

[Hampster Gull]

On the assumption you are being serious, you really shouldn't.

Notwithstanding whether or not deep down he genuinely wants to remain in the EU, the facts are that even if he had campaigned for remain vigorously he would not have made any difference.

Jo Cox was shot dead in her constituency and was like many of her PLP peers vigorously pro EU. Her constituency still voted leave........in her constituency it is likely the dynamic between leave and remain changed because of this event, but it was still not enough for remain to carry the day.

Jeremy Corbyn, could have set himself on fire in an act of self immolation to demonstrate his commitment to the EU and we would still have voted leave.

The vote was extremely close, a 1% swing thats all. Blair would of course carried it

 

[Soulman]

for what its worth i dont think the 4000 a year is excessive . The 20000 promised over 5 years is about spot on. If it all runs smoothly there may even be scope for some more. Cant say i was aware that there was a significant number of people in the country that considered this figure excessive to constitute a label of "many".
There will of course be people that want zero......but surely a tiny minority

In desperation we get the accusations that Leavers were anti Syrian, i remember posting that i had no problem with genuine Syrian refugees, no problem with 20000 genuine refugees as stated. I believe the vast majority of Leave supporters stated that they had no problem. The worry was seeing hordes of young fit men cascading across Europe.

 

[Hampster Gull]

It's the EU and merkels policies that allow these people to make the journey to Europe....have you ever seen any of this before I,e Iraq and Afghanistan etc? Once you step foot on European soil you're protected at some point.If every country had the powers to do what they wanted including borders etc you wouldn't have these issues.

The EU plonkers caused this and this means you get people from everywhere attempting to get to Europe....just the beginning thanks to the wonderfully bright bellends in Brussels.

I think you will find movement of people, refugees, immigrants, etc existed before the EU

 

[yxee]

I think you will find movement of people, refugees, immigrants, etc existed before the EU

A simple diversion. Free movement of labour is a key principle of the EU. Next!

 

[Soulman]

I think you will find movement of people, refugees, immigrants, etc existed before the EU

What, a NET figure of 330,000 to the UK (not the EU) in ONE year..... NET meaning after taking into consideration those that emigrated, so roughly 500,000 coming in.
Was there as many pre EU..... in ONE year.... i doubt it.

 

[Hampster Gull]

A simple diversion. Free movement of labour is a key principle of the EU. Next!

Your missing the point. He was talking about those from Afgan. Iraq etc. You will find that there is no free movement btw those countries and the EU. Wake up

 

[Hampster Gull]

What, a NET figure of 330,000 to the UK (not the EU) in ONE year..... NET meaning after taking into consideration those that immigrated, so roughly 500,000 coming in.
Was there as many pre EU..... in ONE year.... i doubt it.

330,000 from Iraq and Afgan

 

[Soulman]

330,000 from Iraq and Afgan

You stated " View Post
"I think you will find movement of people, refugees, immigrants, etc existed before the EU"

I stated there was not nearly as many Pre EU, and there was not nearly as much "movement" was there.

 

[Soulman]

A simple diversion. Free movement of labour is a key principle of the EU. Next!

Exactly, this is why we are where we are at today.

 

[Hampster Gull]

You stated " View Post
"I think you will find movement of people, refugees, immigrants, etc existed before the EU"

I stated there was not nearly as many Pre EU, and there was not nearly as much "movement" was there.

Have a look at what i was responding to

 

[jaghebby]

What, a NET figure of 330,000 to the UK (not the EU) in ONE year..... NET meaning after taking into consideration those that emigrated, so roughly 500,000 coming in.
Was there as many pre EU..... in ONE year.... i doubt it.

It's interesting to note that people still keep quoting the 330,000 net migration figure where in fact of those 164,000 are people that come to the uk to study mainly to study at uni. And guess what the majority after their 3 year degree courses go back home! So its a bit like the 350 million a week extra that will be going to the NHS - will that ever happen no cos its all pie in the sky just like cutting immigration. See the thing is if Brexit is an economic success then the economy will demand immigration to maintain growth. Why because currently more British people and British nationals aged 16-64 are in work than there has ever been almost 75%. The rest is made up of economically inactive students, mothers or those that can't work etc. The headline unemployment rate is falling so there is very little slack to fill all the jobs being created by a successful economy. So if the economy continues to do well post Brexit this will continue to drive the need for workers. I wonder how these demands will be met? Best guess is through migration and I suspect pretty much at the levels we see now. Unless of course we want to see the economy really damaged?

 

[beorhthelm]

It's interesting to note that people still keep quoting the 330,000 net migration figure where in fact of those 164,000 are people that come to the uk to study mainly to study at uni. And guess what the majority after their 3 year degree courses go back home!

er, the students leaving would be counted in the out going number, so they are not in the net figure. and yes we do need immigration to address shortfalls in labour, but we have to rcognise many see this as a threat because they have no job or low paid job and the immigrant is willing to work for less or do longer hours, or dare i say it a better job.

 

[jaghebby]

er, the students leaving would be counted in the out going number, so they are not in the net figure. and yes we do need immigration to address shortfalls in labour, but we have to rcognise many see this as a threat because they have no job or low paid job and the immigrant is willing to work for less or do longer hours, or dare i say it a better job.

People coming to study are included in the net figure have a look at the official stats! Also quite possibly the immigrant is better qualified to!

 

[beorhthelm]

People coming to study are included in the net figure have a look at the official stats!

yes, and those leaving after their 3 years are included in the net figure (not exactly 164k but thereabouts). to be blunt, understand what net means, the 164k students inflow would be in the 630k total immigration.